Cobb Tune is out for 2020-2021 GTS
02-15-2023, 11:15 AM
#16
Rennlist Member
At the end of the day, what this comes down to is the Porsche engineers messed up big time on their approach to throttle control. PC has created an answer to this. It works very well. Porsche could admit they failed, but like their refusal to make a change to their failed sun visor, they won't. That mistake has carried forward for nine years.
Also, the sun-visors are a joke too. 😂
02-15-2023, 11:34 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I love how anyone against these devices say they “can simply move their foot more to get the same affect”. Also no one is arguing that these devices “add” anything.
Throttle input mapping is a real world tuning parameter in racing. Every modern race team on the planet, that use fly by wire throttle, use various maps to adjust how the drivers input on the pedal effects the power delivery. F1, Motogp, etc. They spend countless hours programming throttle and engine maps.
Porsche has deliberately mapped the throttle from the factory to be very conservative. This gives us the feeling of “lag or delayed response”
These devices give us the ability to make it more or less aggressive.
The makers of the devices are very transparent as the picture above shows. We can achieve closer to full throttle with much less pedal input. This results in faster engine response relative to pedal input. If that makes my experience driving the vehicle more enjoyable then the device is working as advertised. In some cases I may not want such an aggressive response so, I can dial it down.
This principle can be related to braking too. In race cars they can adjust brake pedal input to braking applied at the wheels. Sure you can just push the pedal harder but why do that if you can increase the effect at the wheels with out needing more pressure at the pedal.
At the end of the day its all about tuning and adjustability. Use them or dont. But to say “just push the pedal harder to get the same effect” is a bit intellectually dishonest or disingenuous at best. You cannot physically get the same effect. It literally takes longer to move the pedal to get the same output the pedal commander will provide in a fraction of the time. Unless your foot can move faster than the speed of light.
Throttle input mapping is a real world tuning parameter in racing. Every modern race team on the planet, that use fly by wire throttle, use various maps to adjust how the drivers input on the pedal effects the power delivery. F1, Motogp, etc. They spend countless hours programming throttle and engine maps.
Porsche has deliberately mapped the throttle from the factory to be very conservative. This gives us the feeling of “lag or delayed response”
These devices give us the ability to make it more or less aggressive.
The makers of the devices are very transparent as the picture above shows. We can achieve closer to full throttle with much less pedal input. This results in faster engine response relative to pedal input. If that makes my experience driving the vehicle more enjoyable then the device is working as advertised. In some cases I may not want such an aggressive response so, I can dial it down.
This principle can be related to braking too. In race cars they can adjust brake pedal input to braking applied at the wheels. Sure you can just push the pedal harder but why do that if you can increase the effect at the wheels with out needing more pressure at the pedal.
At the end of the day its all about tuning and adjustability. Use them or dont. But to say “just push the pedal harder to get the same effect” is a bit intellectually dishonest or disingenuous at best. You cannot physically get the same effect. It literally takes longer to move the pedal to get the same output the pedal commander will provide in a fraction of the time. Unless your foot can move faster than the speed of light.
At the end of the day, it's not doing much more than changing the travel profile of the pedal. The response time of the engine itself is longer than the milliseconds it takes to move the pedal further, so it really does not make the vehicle respond any faster. You're making the throttle pedal more touchy and less linear, that's it, that's all.
@avid - you really need to chill out. I'm glad you spent that time writing a paragraph specifically about my personal character, you sure won the internet today.
02-15-2023, 12:25 PM
#18
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
OK can we PLEASE chill?
You like your PC and think it's the answer the world has been looking for? Congratulations.
You don't and think it's a waste of money? Excellent.
So can we resume normal programming please? Thanks
siberian
You like your PC and think it's the answer the world has been looking for? Congratulations.
You don't and think it's a waste of money? Excellent.
So can we resume normal programming please? Thanks
siberian
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#1SomeGuy (02-15-2023)
02-15-2023, 12:29 PM
#19
Racer
I like the PC because its something else to adjust. I sometimes have it off for a week then turn it back on for a different experience. Some like a little bit of extra pedal travel and some don't mind it. I like a mix of both that I can control when its on and off, and the PC makes it easy to do so.
I would assume most drivers here like our brakes to respond strong with minimal pedal travel or our steering input to directly coordinate to the steering rack, its nice to have a more direct feel rather than a bit of pedal travel before discernable acceleration picks up. It just feels more natural, but most of us can adapt either way. When we move our bodies, unless we have a neurological disorder or are on certain medication, our bodies' movement directly coordinates with our intent to do so. Its nice to have our mechanical toys do to the same.
I would assume most drivers here like our brakes to respond strong with minimal pedal travel or our steering input to directly coordinate to the steering rack, its nice to have a more direct feel rather than a bit of pedal travel before discernable acceleration picks up. It just feels more natural, but most of us can adapt either way. When we move our bodies, unless we have a neurological disorder or are on certain medication, our bodies' movement directly coordinates with our intent to do so. Its nice to have our mechanical toys do to the same.
02-15-2023, 12:52 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Haha! I feel like Im in one of those arguments where everyone is saying the same things but slightly different. (Personal attacks aside)
Im all good. We come here to discuss and debate all things car and Porsche. I also learn a ton from opposing opinions and perspectives.
I think we all agree these devices do something to change the driving characteristics of the vehicles.
Im all good. We come here to discuss and debate all things car and Porsche. I also learn a ton from opposing opinions and perspectives.
I think we all agree these devices do something to change the driving characteristics of the vehicles.
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Wilder (02-15-2023)
02-15-2023, 01:01 PM
#21
Rennlist Member
You in response to an opinion that is meaningless in the bigger scope of things.
Also you when it becomes clear you don't know what you're talking about.
Hard to make this up. Especially when you still don't know what you're talking about.
Throttle control units don't adjust the travel profile of the pedal. They remap the signal from the pedal to the throttle. This is why you keep thinking all you need to do is "floor it". You can floor it all you want but the signal programmed by the factory will continue to be sloooooow unless you remap it.
Hard to make this up. Especially when you still don't know what you're talking about.
Throttle control units don't adjust the travel profile of the pedal. They remap the signal from the pedal to the throttle. This is why you keep thinking all you need to do is "floor it". You can floor it all you want but the signal programmed by the factory will continue to be sloooooow unless you remap it.
Last edited by Wilder; 02-15-2023 at 01:04 PM.
02-15-2023, 01:37 PM
#22
Pro
I have a 2023 GTS, and the throttle is the same **** as always; in the Porsche survey, I let them know that the tunning of the throttle and the PDK (this one in normal mode) is really bad. I just ordered a throttle controller, it will help to make the daily driving better, when I'm with the family (4) in normal mode is almost undrivable for me, you have to select sport, but if you are in traffic, you don't need it. This is my second Macan, and Porsche does not improve it. I got a Cayenne loaner with the same engine, and the throttle ran as it had to be....
PS: I had 981 GT4, 2017 Macan, 991.2 GTS, and nowadays I have a 718 Spyder, a 992 GT3, a 2023 BMW M3 xdrive.....all of them have the right throttle response. Macan always was a disaster, and it didn't change with the new 2023.
PS: I had 981 GT4, 2017 Macan, 991.2 GTS, and nowadays I have a 718 Spyder, a 992 GT3, a 2023 BMW M3 xdrive.....all of them have the right throttle response. Macan always was a disaster, and it didn't change with the new 2023.
Last edited by Bill_76; 02-15-2023 at 02:47 PM.
02-15-2023, 02:57 PM
#23
Administrator - "Tyson"
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15 minutes into driving my newly purchased Macan, I found myself in a traffic situation that required quick acceleration. I pressed the pedal with immediacy expecting the car to react in kind. It took what seemed like a lifetime for it to do so. This happened over and over. That is dangerous. The only thing dumb here is your comment. You don't even seem able to discern the difference between acceleration and throttle response. Dumb.
In some race cars we dial in separate throttle maps for every gear and even temperature variations. Easy stuff with MOTEC M1 ECU's.
02-15-2023, 03:31 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You in response to an opinion that is meaningless in the bigger scope of things.
Also you when it becomes clear you don't know what you're talking about.
Hard to make this up. Especially when you still don't know what you're talking about.
Throttle control units don't adjust the travel profile of the pedal. They remap the signal from the pedal to the throttle. This is why you keep thinking all you need to do is "floor it". You can floor it all you want but the signal programmed by the factory will continue to be sloooooow unless you remap it.
Also you when it becomes clear you don't know what you're talking about.
Hard to make this up. Especially when you still don't know what you're talking about.
Throttle control units don't adjust the travel profile of the pedal. They remap the signal from the pedal to the throttle. This is why you keep thinking all you need to do is "floor it". You can floor it all you want but the signal programmed by the factory will continue to be sloooooow unless you remap it.
Despite what you are implying, there is no delay built into the pedal itself. It's not like you push the pedal and then 1 second later it sends the signal, no, it's immediate. All throttle control is done in the ECU.
02-15-2023, 03:59 PM
#25
Rennlist Member
@Bill_76 this is purely speculation on my part but being that the Macan outsells all other pcar models, I can see Porsche making the Macan the model they sacrifice to help the brand meet emission and fuel consumption quotas on the entire line up, in large part through throttle and PDK programming. That's why even the Turbos and GTSs are atrociously unresponsive and they hit 7th gear at 30 MPH. It's the reason the PDK can be problematic as so much shifting in stop and go traffic generates excessive heat. If you've never used a throttle module, be ready for your Macan to be transformed. You're gonna love it!
@hacker-pschorr brutal. Like I said above, I think it's mostly done to meet regulation quotas. It's unfathomable that these cars would leave the factory without everyone knowing about this issue. And yeah, in a post drive-by-wire world, I fathom all race cars have their throttle tuned.
@hacker-pschorr brutal. Like I said above, I think it's mostly done to meet regulation quotas. It's unfathomable that these cars would leave the factory without everyone knowing about this issue. And yeah, in a post drive-by-wire world, I fathom all race cars have their throttle tuned.
02-15-2023, 04:07 PM
#26
Administrator - "Tyson"
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@hacker-pschorr brutal. Like I said above, I think it's mostly done to meet regulation quotas. It's unfathomable that these cars would leave the factory without everyone knowing about this issue. And yeah, in a post drive-by-wire world, I fathom all race cars have their throttle tuned.
Your everyday car is so fast today compared to just 10 years ago, most average consumers never use even a fraction of what a modern car can do. A 2023 Prius is as fast as the best hot hatch from a few years ago.
If you had instant, full throttle response on many new cars, you'd have people crashing as they left the dealership the first time. Modern cars are absolutely tuned down for the soccer mom weaving through traffic while talking on their cell phone. One of the best upgrades for a GMC used a lot for towing is re-mapping the throttle.
Anyone that's been around Porsches a long time can recall the first upgrade you do to a N/A 944 is the throttle response cam.
https://only944.com/partscatalog/onl...leresponsecam/
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Wilder (02-15-2023)