kurt M

Looks more like he is gazing longingly at the warm snuggly space between the fun bags of life.

trackjunky

O.K. ...... I'm jumpin' in. The Conservative movement (sometimes confused with being a Republican) is all about personal responsibility and ensuring that people (like *cough* Larry *cough*) get to keep as much of their own money as they earn.

I think that it is horrible how envy and jealousy over what others have and what they've achieved became the slogan for "Change". Larry, I hope you make $10 million this year and spend it any way you see fit.

My first suggestion would be to track down that lady in the photo. Don't ask the boy though, as he doesn't know what her face looks like.

P.S. I sure hope that you do not write off your racing as a business expense, as this would be using tax laws to advantage yourself over other poor well deserving families who better need your money.

Larry Herman

Bill, I think that I have some conservative views as well as some liberal views. That makes me a Centrist for the most part. What really torques me about "personal responsibility" is when I am being screwed by the big companies because I am responsible and have no recourse. When my health insurance jumps 25% in one shot, and I have to switch to a lesser plan because I cannot afford to pay over 2K per month, AND I have doctors who will no longer accept my insurance, I do not see the benefit of "personal responsibility" over having everyone contribute to a universal program that works.

I really don't want to get into a back & forth discussion...just explaining myself a little.

Bonster

Geez, that's rough about your insurance, Larry! And here I was griping about our federal insurance benefits! What company were you with that raised your rates so dang high?

Larry Herman

Blue Cross/Blue Shield. We had their personal choice plan, and it was pretty good with reasonable deductables, but then they raised it to $2,450 per month this year! We had to change to semi-hmo type of plan to cut it down to $1,900 per month. And now one of our Doctor's groups will not take BC/BS insurance anymore anyway. *@#$%.

allegretto

Larry,

The problem is that a "Universal Program that works" is a myth. The Socialized Healthcare Systems (SHS) of Western countries engage in a Byzantine system of rationing and hidden expenses. While it is fashionable to take the other side, the truth is that if you want a system that "works" you must define "works".

In the US, not everyone has insurance, but everyone gets care if they seek it. In the EU and Canada, everyone has insurance, but not everyone gets care, even if they do seek it.

I happen to like discussing the issues with folks since the Media and politicians have played so loose with the truth for so long, intelligent and well-meaning individuals have bought into the story. But it is a story filled with empty examples and non-truths sprinkled with factoids and skewed statistics to make a false premise.

Yes, your premiums are rising. And YES, there are many ways to reduce healthcare costs. But even indigent reprobates in this country get a level of care that EU inhabitants with jobs can only dream of.

But the first question that MUST be answered in any debate is the same question that any intelligent person would ask about any expense;

How much should this cost?

In what is still the richest country on Earth, it is a question we should answer carefully. Everyone wants the "BEST" healthcare. And indeed by any reasonable measure it is available right here. The sad truth is that NO ONE wants to pay the cost. So around and around it goes.

If you think the Construction Industry has mandates that raise costs (ADA, OSHA etc.) you should see Healthcare! Unfortunately all the Gov keeps doing is adding more mandates in a horizon chasing exercise.

Your Doc won't take your insurance for the same reason you decline certain projects. Do you think forcing him/her to take you will result in better care? Would it work for your industry?

TR6

As a reference point on the cost question for health care, I recently had some first hand experience. I was referred by my doctor to get an MRI. I went to the MRI place that was on the top of their list of recommended providers and was quoted $8500 total for an MRI. 10% of that, they expected me to pay out of my pocket and the other 90% insurance would pick up. That sounded too high, so I shopped around and found another MRI place that did exactly the same MRI for about $350 total. I paid $35 of it. It pays to shop around. But it also points out a fundamental pricing problem in our health care system. You can always argue that it is a free market and people can do exactly as I did. But the reality is that most people don't. If their doctor recommends they go to some place to get a specific thing done, most of us don't question it or do any comparison shopping.

Bull

I'm right with you my friend as soon as we see such a program that "works".

Having the Federal Government operate such a program can't possibly make sense in light of how they have F'ed up everything else today!

Larry Herman

THe first price sounds way out of line, but the second? You know that you got the same results because.....

TR6

...because I'm still alive.

Bull

I would guess that one measure of the result would be what your doctor, who ordered the MRI, thought of the quality of the results/reports when he/she saw them.

allegretto

yes, that is part of the problem. let's look at the transaction;

1) you didn't have an idea ahead of time what the costs were
2) the range of "prices" in the marketplace is enormous
3) you're only expected to pay 10% (as if)

to begin, $8500 is NOT the price. your $850 covered cost and some profit. they may have billed your insurance for $7650, but they would be lucky to get 10% of that from the ins co. you may not know the range of fees in your area but you can bet the ins co does!

so your experience serves a couple of lessons on how to hold down costs

1) pricing should be more transparent
2) "price" should mean something other than some ridiculous number that no one ever pays.
3) consumers should buy smarter.
4) physicians should be more sensitive to their patient's encounters with the services they recommend.

already we're on our way to lowering costs and we haven't lost a thing, have we? nor have we done anything that the GOV had anything to do with. NPO patient advocacy groups could accomplish this better than Gov anyway.

Bull

It seems to me that we lived for a period of time where nobody new what the costs were...and nobody cared what the costs amounted to in the end. Hell, "that is covered by insurance"....just like auto repairs when nobody cared that the repair shop padded the bill because "that is covered by insurance". Then people began seeing their insurance cost rise. Hell, I'm so old (almost as old as Larry!) that I remember when my employer paid 100% of my health insurance. Now people complain like hell about their cost of insurance, but damn few do the shopping that TR6 did, or take any other action than to look to Govmint to do "it".

I personally learned a lot about costs when one day a few years ago I was told to start a routine of daily medical treatments for 8 weeks...or else. Ruined two entire months of prime track time (but my helmet fit better)! I had my insurance company pre-approve the Docs, Hospital, procedures as required. When the fun ended, I thought it was over....until a month or so later when we received a bill for almost $400,000, saying the insurance company, upon further review, had decided that the procedure was "experimental", so no coverage. An itemized statement of the "$400,00" was very interesting. Along with the dire threats about ruined credit, lawyers () and impending homelessness, came the offer to settle for a much lower amount. I told them "F you, strong letter to follow", and about 8 months later all was covered by the insurance company (with no lawyer dollars spent by me).

Thankfully, the Gov'mint wasn't also involved!

allegretto

Hey TR6;

was the $8500 place a hospital-based facility or free-standing?

TR6

Hospital based. The cheaper place was free standing. And the doctor was fine with the MRI output from the cheaper place.