Veloce Raptor

..

Veloce Raptor

Or maybe it's more like this:

MTosi

No disagreement here, but where they got into trouble is (IIRC) even if you are a Class III dealer you need a LE demo letter to buy any of the post 86 production ban mg's (added in illegally under the "Firearm Owners Protection Act").

IMO The ATF is far to similar to the likes of SS...

I don't know if anyone heard this story, even Lou Dobbs and the communist news network picked up on how absurd this was.....


WEAPONS OF CHOICE
Drill instructor convicted after rifle jams
Guardsman guilty of illegally transferring 'machine gun' after firearm malfunctions

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
A drill instructor in the National Guard has been convicted in a Wisconsin federal court of illegally transferring a machine gun after a rifle he loaned to a student malfunctioned, setting off three shots before jamming.

The verdict of guilty on one count in the case against David Olofson was confirmed yesterday by the clerk's office in the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Wisconsin.

That means now that anyone whose weapon malfunctions is subject to charges of having or handling a banned gun, according to an expert witness who reports that the particular problem is a well-known malfunction and was even the subject of a recall from the manufacturer.

"If your semiautomatic rifle breaks or malfunctions you are now subject to prosecution. That is now a sad FACT. I guess we know now what Sen. Kennedy meant when he said he looked forward to working with [Acting Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Director] Mike Sullivan on Gun control issues, after his committee approved him for full Senate vote," Len Savage, a weaponry expert who runs Historic Arms LLC, said in a blog.

"To those in the sporting culture who have derided 'black guns' and so-called 'assault weapons'; Your double barreled shotgun is now next up to be seized and you could possibly be prosecuted if the ATF can get it to 'fire more than once,'" he wrote in a blog run by Red's Trading Post.


Red Trading Post manager Ryan Horsley

"Hey, but don't worry," Savage said. "The people testing it have no procedures in writing and the testing will be in secret. Also if you know of information that proves YOUR innocence, maybe the ATF won't claim that it's tax information at your trial and prevent YOUR judge from viewing it."

He told an interview with Jews for the Preservation of Firearms Ownership that Olofson had been instructing a man in the use of guns, and the student asked to borrow a rifle for some shooting practice.

"Mr. Olofson was nice enough to accommodate him," Savage said. So the student, Robert Kiernicki, went to a range and fired about 120 rounds. "He went to put in another magazine and the rifle shot three times, then jammed," Savage said.

A couple of police officers who also were at the ranged immediately approached him and started asking questions about the "automatic" fire, and he told them it was a borrowed weapon.

"Mr. Olofson, being a responsible person, went down to the police station and said, 'I'm in the National Guard. I know what a machine gun looks like. That's not it,'" Savage said.

But instead of having the issues resolve, Savage said, it got worse.

He reported that because of the malfunction, the rifle was seized and sent to the Firearm Technology Branch, the testing arm of the federal agency.

"The examined and test fired the rifle; then declared it to be 'just a rifle,'" Savage said. "You would think it would all be resolved at this point, this was merely the beginning."

He said the Special Agent in Charge, Jody Keeku, asked for a re-test and specified that the tests use "soft primered commercial ammunition."

"FTB has no standardized testing procedures, in fact it has no written procedures at all for testing firearms," Savage said. "They had no standard to stick to, and gleefully tried again. The results this time...'a machinegun.' ATF with a self-admitted 50 percent error rate pursued an indictment and Mr. Olofson was charged with 'Unlawful transfer of a machinegun.'. Not possession, not even Robert Kiernicki was charged with possession (who actually possessed the rifle), though the ATF paid Mr. Kiernicki 'an undisclosed amount of money' to testify against Mr. Olofson at trial," Savage said.

And then during the trial, the prosecution told the judge it would not provide some information defense lawyers felt would clear their client, Savage continued. That included the fact that the rifle's manufacturer, Olympic Arms, had been issued a recall notice for that very model in 1986 over an issue of guns inadvertently slipping into full automatic mode, if certain parts were worn or if certain ammunition was used.

Ryan Horsley, who posts the Red's Trading Post blog, said the results were "very concerning."

"Basically if your Ruger 10/22, Browning Citori Over and Under or Remington 11-87 malfunction and fire more than one round at a time; the ATF will now consider it a machine gun," he wrote.

He told WND he's had personal experience with guns that malfunction and fire more than one bullet. Even double-barreled shotguns, if both shells would be released at once, now could be considered machine guns and illegal, he said.

"This precedent is very dangerous," he said.

Defense attorneys in the Olofson case couldn't be reached immediately to determine whether an appeal would be pursued, but Savage noted the arguments by assistant U.S. Attorney Greg Hannstad, who handled the prosecution.

"Haanstad claimed the law does not exempt a malfunction. He claims that it states 'any weapon that shoots more than once without manual reloading, per function of the trigger is a machinegun.' To clarify when I was on the stand, I asked him, 'Are you saying if I take my Great Granddaddy's double barrel out and I pull one trigger and both barrels go off, it's a machinegun?' He went back to … 'any weapon that shoots…'" Savage said.

MTosi

I had some better ones, but I pissed off the mods enough with some of my previous threads so I'm going to ease them in over a few weeks

Bonster

Thanks for letting me know to keep an eye on ya Tosi.

MTosi

I'll bet you will, well maybe not me, but the little space to left of the screen know as my avatar, and I doubt it will be because I've pissed you off

Bull

Best not to yank the chain of one of the mods....particularly that one.

Bonster

Bwahaha, good one Bob. Tosi . . . I only hang out with the guys -- I'm not one of them. I only put up with their girl pics because they pay me well. That reminds me, VR still owes me fifty bucks.

trackjunky

<<<<<SWEET!!! New Avatar!

Bonster

I keep humming that song with Cisco Kid in it . . . in fact, that could be the name of it, I don't remember. 70s song . . . "Cisco kid, was a friend of mine . . ." Thanks a LOT guys . . . I can't get that song outta my pea brain now!

Bull

If you were a bit older, what you would be hearing in your head would be "Hey Pancho, Hey Cisco"......

You actually found that you could listen to '70s music???

Bonster

***Yeah . . . I was born in 1969, so I actually REMEMBER the 70s, too. My parents, well . . . they thought the Eagles were devil worshippers. Crazy 40s kids!

Veloce Raptor

1969?

BWHAHAHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

TR6

Hell, I remember 1969. My parents (or at least my mom) got all worked up over Alice Cooper. Of course later, when I was into the Ramones and other "underground" bands, I heard a lot of static about that too. Always the rebel...

Bonster

Very funny Dave. I knew SOMEBODY would laugh at the year.

Alice Cooper? Hell no, my folks would never have stood for that music (which is why I had to keep it turned way down). The music I did listen to had to be very quiet (and later using headphones when they came out with the smaller ones), lest I faced the wrath of my father's belt. "Turn that **** off!" was heard frequently in the 70s and 80s in our household. This coming from people who liked Leslie Gore and Bobby Vinton and !GASP! Englebert Humperdink (what the hell kinda name is that anyway???).

Now that I'm older and own a home of my own, I HAVE to listen to my music loud -- I can't hear it otherwise. I think my hearing started to decline right about when I started playing at the track.