718 GT4?
09-23-2020, 09:33 AM
#8491
The Pirellis are around $2700 for a set of four
The Michelins are around $2100 for a set of four
I used Pirelli DHs last year and they were great...they do last and are good down to the cords.
The Michelins are around $2100 for a set of four
I used Pirelli DHs last year and they were great...they do last and are good down to the cords.
09-23-2020, 01:41 PM
#8492
Rennlist Member
Yes, unless someone is chasing that last couple 10ths, the Pirelli DH is a much better choice.
09-23-2020, 02:15 PM
#8493
Rennlist Member
Trailer and probably tow vehicle would be an expense. I have a Cayenne that would probably be sufficient for a lightweight single car trailer. If investing in a trailer, ideally it would be a 2 car, this way I could take one of my street cars to the track for some fun that can't be had on the street and run both cars on the same day. The group I go with does 6 x 20 min sessions and open lapping for a hour at end of day. What is the rough cost of slicks? Cup 2s here are about $2900 installed, would imagine slicks are more. Is it important to maintain tire temps between sessions? I don't see guys doing that now on track cars/ferrari challenge cars, so presume not for DE purposes. For GT4CS, do you need track side support?
As for track side support, basically your don't need anyone. Wheels are 5 lugs so changing tire is a one person job, nothing to be done track side other than fuelling. Most of the suspension adjustments can be done track side on a jack and jack stand if needed.
I had a 981 GT4 which I tracked at Mosport in 2018, was fantastic, just felt effortless on the turns, could really give it. I was probably quicker on some turns in that car and that's likely a skill thing holding me back on the GT3. 981 was slow on the back straight by comparison. I haven't kept track of times so nothing to reference but memories.
They frown from a warranty perspective or dynamics change? Yes seems like most guys go to 18s for better availability and reduced costs. I have a Competition Motorsports half cage now with 6 pt belts/hans. No reinforcement on mounts. Option E would be a base $185K (trade value) spend looking at current GT3 values on similar spec cars + brake, spindle, wheel, tires. So it's still up there. I think E would make sense if I stuck with the option for another 2-3 years. But that should probably be a serious thought as I'm for sure not fully exploiting the GT3 capabilities.
RS is at or above GT4CS vehicle price. Why would somebody get 3RS instead? Because it is streetable?
And yes, the GT3RS is a street car, hence why it is an attractive option for some people.
So if I look at what I spent on the GT3, $230K around. Is that money or whatever value is left in that expense better spent elsewhere for more enjoyment.
GT4 CS is around that spend landed in Canada. At this point I'm not thinking of racing or anything. The CS would need to be a multi-year investment as I'm not sure how easy it is to sell in a couple years and what value you would get.
I also typically buy insurance, to me it's part of the track cost and I'd hate to loose $230K to save $1000/day. So a lower cost car (not GT4 CS, no idea how to insure that) would reduce operating costs like insurance. Not that the expense is an issue now, but I don't like to spend money if I don't have to or if it doesn't make sense.
GT4 CS is around that spend landed in Canada. At this point I'm not thinking of racing or anything. The CS would need to be a multi-year investment as I'm not sure how easy it is to sell in a couple years and what value you would get.
I also typically buy insurance, to me it's part of the track cost and I'd hate to loose $230K to save $1000/day. So a lower cost car (not GT4 CS, no idea how to insure that) would reduce operating costs like insurance. Not that the expense is an issue now, but I don't like to spend money if I don't have to or if it doesn't make sense.
As for insurance, you will have to talk to your agent about insuring a race car as it's not a street car and have different risk factors.
Selling a race car will always be harder than a street car, the market is much smaller.
Of course a race car is a multi year investment, mine is already 4 years old, but even now, when I take it out, unless someone comes out with their GT2RS, nothing is faster. One of our members have a 991.1 GT3 on slicks, he was right on my tail for the whole session, I didn't know it was on slicks at the time so I was like wtf how can he stay with me for 20 mins.
09-25-2020, 08:32 AM
#8494
Cup2s will last longer on track than slicks, one reason I mentioned the price of tires as a factor. Someone else posted rough cost already. But I think those are US$ pricing as it differs from what I can sourced. Michelins are harder to source out here on the West Coast and more expensive. Think last time I bought a set was like $3800CAD. Pirelli DH are easily to find and cheaper, PCA spec race runs them. Depending on who I bought them from, the price ranged from $2400-$2800CAD. Continental sponsored our track, I have been meaning to check with them for their slicks but never got around to do it. There is no need to maintain temps between sessions, every run is like a heat cycle and they don't last longer enough for excessive heat cycle to affect them. If you are aggressive enough, your out lap is enough to get them up to temp, if not, another half a lap and it's good.
As for track side support, basically your don't need anyone. Wheels are 5 lugs so changing tire is a one person job, nothing to be done track side other than fuelling. Most of the suspension adjustments can be done track side on a jack and jack stand if needed.
Mid engine cars inherently wants to change direction easier, that's the difference. 911s really need trail braking to get it to turn, something not quite needed on the 981.
Both. warranty didn't specifically said no slicks. But the extra grip afforded by slicks, which in cases could be an extra 30-50%, put extra stress on components, which might break. No pretty when a suspension arm breaks mid corner.
Porsche hasn't announce pricing yet but I foresee the GT4RS will be around GT3 price wise. The GT4CS being a race car will be above that when new. The good thing is since it is a race car, many race teams retires them and going on the second hand market with a great discount. earlier many 981 GT4CS went on the market as teams were upgrading to the 718 GT4CS. And with the current virus thing, some teams can't afford to race and their 718 GT4CS are on the market too.
And yes, the GT3RS is a street car, hence why it is an attractive option for some people.
Value, will always be a personal yardstick, one person's value isn't another's.
As for insurance, you will have to talk to your agent about insuring a race car as it's not a street car and have different risk factors.
Selling a race car will always be harder than a street car, the market is much smaller.
Of course a race car is a multi year investment, mine is already 4 years old, but even now, when I take it out, unless someone comes out with their GT2RS, nothing is faster. One of our members have a 991.1 GT3 on slicks, he was right on my tail for the whole session, I didn't know it was on slicks at the time so I was like wtf how can he stay with me for 20 mins.
As for track side support, basically your don't need anyone. Wheels are 5 lugs so changing tire is a one person job, nothing to be done track side other than fuelling. Most of the suspension adjustments can be done track side on a jack and jack stand if needed.
Mid engine cars inherently wants to change direction easier, that's the difference. 911s really need trail braking to get it to turn, something not quite needed on the 981.
Both. warranty didn't specifically said no slicks. But the extra grip afforded by slicks, which in cases could be an extra 30-50%, put extra stress on components, which might break. No pretty when a suspension arm breaks mid corner.
Porsche hasn't announce pricing yet but I foresee the GT4RS will be around GT3 price wise. The GT4CS being a race car will be above that when new. The good thing is since it is a race car, many race teams retires them and going on the second hand market with a great discount. earlier many 981 GT4CS went on the market as teams were upgrading to the 718 GT4CS. And with the current virus thing, some teams can't afford to race and their 718 GT4CS are on the market too.
And yes, the GT3RS is a street car, hence why it is an attractive option for some people.
Value, will always be a personal yardstick, one person's value isn't another's.
As for insurance, you will have to talk to your agent about insuring a race car as it's not a street car and have different risk factors.
Selling a race car will always be harder than a street car, the market is much smaller.
Of course a race car is a multi year investment, mine is already 4 years old, but even now, when I take it out, unless someone comes out with their GT2RS, nothing is faster. One of our members have a 991.1 GT3 on slicks, he was right on my tail for the whole session, I didn't know it was on slicks at the time so I was like wtf how can he stay with me for 20 mins.
Is there an in between tire Cup2/Race Maxx 2 and slicks? I see R888 and Cup2 R. Wonder if there is benefit to be had there as a smaller step if I retain the GT3. Seems like those could be drive to/from track in dry. Avoids having to swap wheels at the track.
Is there a marketplace for used GT4 CS and the like? Where does one look, race team sites?
09-25-2020, 09:22 AM
#8495
Thanks for the thoughts. Helpful discussion for me.
Is there an in between tire Cup2/Race Maxx 2 and slicks? I see R888 and Cup2 R. Wonder if there is benefit to be had there as a smaller step if I retain the GT3. Seems like those could be drive to/from track in dry. Avoids having to swap wheels at the track.
Is there a marketplace for used GT4 CS and the like? Where does one look, race team sites?
Is there an in between tire Cup2/Race Maxx 2 and slicks? I see R888 and Cup2 R. Wonder if there is benefit to be had there as a smaller step if I retain the GT3. Seems like those could be drive to/from track in dry. Avoids having to swap wheels at the track.
Is there a marketplace for used GT4 CS and the like? Where does one look, race team sites?
I tracked my 981 GT4 since new and the last two years with slicks...... I could change all 4 tires in less than 30 minutes.
I know it's a bit more complicated as you need a second vehicle (and a helper!) to transport the wheelset with slicks, a good jack and minimum tools but the jump in performance is just awesome.
Once you use them you wont go back!
As for used 981/718 CS check the classified here and racingjunk.com.
You can also contact shops like DeMan, BGB, RS1, etc.....most of them are sponsors in RL.
09-25-2020, 11:58 AM
#8496
Rennlist Member
Thanks for the thoughts. Helpful discussion for me.
Is there an in between tire Cup2/Race Maxx 2 and slicks? I see R888 and Cup2 R. Wonder if there is benefit to be had there as a smaller step if I retain the GT3. Seems like those could be drive to/from track in dry. Avoids having to swap wheels at the track.
Is there a marketplace for used GT4 CS and the like? Where does one look, race team sites?
Is there an in between tire Cup2/Race Maxx 2 and slicks? I see R888 and Cup2 R. Wonder if there is benefit to be had there as a smaller step if I retain the GT3. Seems like those could be drive to/from track in dry. Avoids having to swap wheels at the track.
Is there a marketplace for used GT4 CS and the like? Where does one look, race team sites?
Tire sizing is the biggest issue. Only the Hoosier R7 has sizes for GT3's native 20" outside of Cup 2s, Maxx and Trofeo Rs. The R7 is also the closest to slicks.
09-28-2020, 10:18 AM
#8497
Probably the best option would be Hoosier R7 but those you can't drive with them to the track.
I tracked my 981 GT4 since new and the last two years with slicks...... I could change all 4 tires in less than 30 minutes.
I know it's a bit more complicated as you need a second vehicle (and a helper!) to transport the wheelset with slicks, a good jack and minimum tools but the jump in performance is just awesome.
Once you use them you wont go back!
As for used 981/718 CS check the classified here and racingjunk.com.
You can also contact shops like DeMan, BGB, RS1, etc.....most of them are sponsors in RL.
I tracked my 981 GT4 since new and the last two years with slicks...... I could change all 4 tires in less than 30 minutes.
I know it's a bit more complicated as you need a second vehicle (and a helper!) to transport the wheelset with slicks, a good jack and minimum tools but the jump in performance is just awesome.
Once you use them you wont go back!
As for used 981/718 CS check the classified here and racingjunk.com.
You can also contact shops like DeMan, BGB, RS1, etc.....most of them are sponsors in RL.
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TomTarzian (09-28-2020)
09-28-2020, 10:21 AM
#8498
Track side support like that is awesome...wish we had it here!
10-10-2020, 08:20 AM
#8499
Rennlist Member
Some good views of the RS
via @YouTube