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718 GT4?

Old Yesterday, 08:36 PM
  #5446  
Archimedes
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Originally Posted by Five12Free View Post

Competely disagree. This might have been true ten years ago, but the 991 911s are some of the easiest cars to drive quickly.
Agree. My Carrera S (SPASM,PDCC) was the easiest, most confidence inspiring car to drive quickly that I've ever driven. It was glued down, turned in great and had so much grip from mid corner to corner exit that you just felt like to could push it harder and faster. My Spyder on the other hand, while fun, is so much more work, has so much less grip, and feels like it's on the ragged edge at similar speeds on the same road. Love them both, but the Carrera was faster down a windy road and much more composed doing it.
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Old Yesterday, 10:54 PM
  #5447  
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I also don’t agree that the 911’s rear engine layout is wrong or that mid engine is inherently superior.

As others have said, a greater rear weight bias improves both braking and acceleration. On acceleration, you get more weight on the driving wheels. On braking, the rear weight bias allows more even usage of front and rear brakes.

Also, when people talk about moment of intertia, they often don’t understand that the moment depends on the axis of rotation. If you ignore rear axle steering, the axis of rotation is always on a line going through the rear axle. The tighter the turn, the closer the axis of rotation get to the centre of the rear axle. To minimize moment of inertia, the ideal location for the mass is over the rear axle, not in front of it. This is exactly where the 991/992 have their engine/transmission assembly located.

There’s a reason why the 911 routinely outperforms mid engined cars with similar tires and power to weight ratios.
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Old Today, 03:10 AM
  #5448  
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This debate is going way off topic. But........ whilst we are waiting for the car reveal (3l turbo so says one who must be in the know) have a read of the articles below. Agree or disagree (personal opinion or otherwise) about rear/mid engine, physics is physics. Ask any mechanical engineer. When you hang a heavy component like the engine behind the rear axle it creates inertial and handling quirks that are difficult to rectify. No other car company does a rear engine layout. Porsche's 911 is an engineering marvel that they are continuing to advance (weight balancing, shifting the engine closer to the rear axle, rear wheel steering, all sorts of electronic programming and gizmos) Its an amazing car. Porsche continue with the rear engine layout out of tradition not because it is better from a engineering or physics point of view. They tried to kill the car many times (924, 944, 928) and have produced mid engine sports cars like the Cayman/Boxster, 918 and Carrera GT. LMP1/2 and formula one cars are built as mid engine layouts because they are superior from a physics point of view. Remember when a crazy F1 car company did a mid engine layout instead of a front engine (Cooper T51)?

The Cayman and Boxster are Porsche's entry level sports cars and are engineered deliberately to not be faster than the icon 911.

In the end its what you prefer (or your bank balance says). You are the consumer. I love 911s too but....

https://porschehangout.com/mid-engine-vs-rear-engine/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
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Old Today, 03:36 AM
  #5449  
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Originally Posted by GP Racing View Post
This debate is going way off topic. But........ whilst we are waiting for the car reveal (3l turbo so says one who must be in the know) have a read of the articles below. Agree or disagree (personal opinion or otherwise) about rear/mid engine, physics is physics. Ask any mechanical engineer. When you hang a heavy component like the engine behind the rear axle it creates inertial and handling quirks that are difficult to rectify. No other car company does a rear engine layout. Porsche's 911 is an engineering marvel that they are continuing to advance (weight balancing, shifting the engine closer to the rear axle, rear wheel steering, all sorts of electronic programming and gizmos) Its an amazing car. Porsche continue with the rear engine layout out of tradition not because it is better from a engineering or physics point of view. They tried to kill the car many times (924, 944, 928) and have produced mid engine sports cars like the Cayman/Boxster, 918 and Carrera GT. LMP1/2 and formula one cars are built as mid engine layouts because they are superior from a physics point of view. Remember when a crazy F1 car company did a mid engine layout instead of a front engine (Cooper T51)?

The Cayman and Boxster are Porsche's entry level sports cars and are engineered deliberately to not be faster than the icon 911.

In the end its what you prefer (or your bank balance says). You are the consumer. I love 911s too but....

https://porschehangout.com/mid-engine-vs-rear-engine/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
Wait, who says 3L turbo ???
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Old Today, 04:00 AM
  #5450  
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Originally Posted by Gatte View Post
Wait, who says 3L turbo ???
Umm,..... well that amazing blogger (troll) your friend LordLucan. All we have heard is the sound of crickets after you summarized his posts. I confessed my shocking sins to all about the race car. Still waiting for a reply as to why we thinks it is not a 4l motor. Are we back on topic now?
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Old Today, 12:18 PM
  #5451  
GoKart Mozart
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Originally Posted by GP Racing View Post
This debate is going way off topic. But........ whilst we are waiting for the car reveal (3l turbo so says one who must be in the know) have a read of the articles below. Agree or disagree (personal opinion or otherwise) about rear/mid engine, physics is physics. Ask any mechanical engineer. When you hang a heavy component like the engine behind the rear axle it creates inertial and handling quirks that are difficult to rectify. No other car company does a rear engine layout. Porsche's 911 is an engineering marvel that they are continuing to advance (weight balancing, shifting the engine closer to the rear axle, rear wheel steering, all sorts of electronic programming and gizmos) Its an amazing car. Porsche continue with the rear engine layout out of tradition not because it is better from a engineering or physics point of view. They tried to kill the car many times (924, 944, 928) and have produced mid engine sports cars like the Cayman/Boxster, 918 and Carrera GT. LMP1/2 and formula one cars are built as mid engine layouts because they are superior from a physics point of view. Remember when a crazy F1 car company did a mid engine layout instead of a front engine (Cooper T51)?

The Cayman and Boxster are Porsche's entry level sports cars and are engineered deliberately to not be faster than the icon 911.

In the end its what you prefer (or your bank balance says). You are the consumer. I love 911s too but....

https://porschehangout.com/mid-engine-vs-rear-engine/
https://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsp...rank-walliser/
That is exactly how I see it, but FWIW I still dig the 911.

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Old Today, 12:45 PM
  #5452  
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Originally Posted by GoKart Mozart View Post
That is why I also wrote some aspects of the layout can be used to its advantage. Outside of that, you make a valid point, but at the same time, if we are just basing it on fastest possible lap times, is Porsche really trying to make a Cayman based model as powerful or as fast? That GT2 RS lap record will be broken again sometime soon, probably by a Lambo or McLaren, and they are not rear engine cars, so the argument goes away again.
Porsche is definitely not trying to make the Cayman perform like a 911. That's irrelevant though. Other people ARE trying to beat the GT2RS and as someone else mentioned, Lambo has done it with an Aventador. The point is that if the rear-engine layout was inferior, Porsche wouldn't be able to make it the top dog in this day and age. Sure, someone will come along and beat it. But the fact that for a moment, RECENTLY, it was #1 means it's not inherently flawed.


Originally Posted by GoKart Mozart View Post
If in fact is was THAT good to have the engine in the back, why is Porsche continuing to move it forward, to the point where some consider it almost a mid engine now?
As mentioned... it makes it easier to drive. Lots of people want that. Who can blame them? But that's a limitation of the driver rather than the car.
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