Ouch

Glad you're OK


I can see why some over on the racing forum keep talking about students and their high HP cars, not having the basics, needing more control, etc.

 

In 2 cases when a car crashed due to "brake failure" and when I had access to the car...they both had full pedal pressure. Hmmm...

I have been instructing for 30 years...I have seen on a few occasions when the driver gets his foot behind the brake pedal and presses the floor board...thinking that they are on the brake.

One instance was confirmed in a video...the driver swears that he was on the binders...but the video showed that the brake lights never lit up!

 

Yikes! I'm glad everyone is ok! Any idea what brake fluid was in the 650s? It would be interesting to bleed it and get a boiling point measurement on the fluid. An R8 also went straight through T12 in front of me and all the way through the runoff area before it slid to a stop in the last session, but thankfully didn't hit anything.

You guys are much braver than me instructing newbies in McLarens at COTA. I did over 170mph there in a 650s I took out for a few laps, driving only 7 tenths. Do you give the students a speed limit or just rely on the fact they probably aren't getting a good enough exit to reach full Vmax anyway? I've seen two cars go straight into that barrier in T12.

 

Mike,

That is a great thought. I request certain cars and certain levels of drivers. I like newbies in slow cars. Going off at 170 can get you messed up! Its why I sold the Viper and went back to Porsche. The speeds were nuts without a cage.

 

Didn't ask about brake fluid brand, but as mentioned, based on his description of the pedal feeling like it always did, it didn't sound like a fluid boil/leak situation. Texasviany's theory about mashing the floor board rather than the actual pedal is one I hadn't considered. I'd love to know what the dealer finds out. He did have his onboard Track Telemetry app running if that changes whether or how much data is available, but for some reason I just don't feel right following up with my student about this -- any other instructors here have thoughts on this?

Looking back I'm sort of surprised I took the McLaren student since I have historically tended to pass on cars like that, but somehow that morning I didn't really think anything of it. He wasn't a newbie, though. He had been put into Blue, probably because it was his first time at CotA, but his first lap of the day he drove a very reasonable line and by the end of his 3rd session it was clear to me that he belonged in Yellow, and Blue just had him constantly running into traffic, which prevented any sort of repetition of his lap rhythm to help things sink in. And as luck would have it, my other student who had been placed into Yellow I felt should be in Blue because he wasn't driving all that consistently and much more egregiously (especially for a Yellow student), he missed probably 2/3rds of the flags, so I just swapped their run groups for the last 2 sessions of the day. Anyhow, I didn't impose a speed limit, but his initial behavior of coasting for a while before braking way early on the straight made that a non-issue anyway. I actually worked on getting him to brake consistently hard right from the start to show him how much stopping force was available if he'd just ask for it, and later getting him to maintain full throttle until his (still very early) braking point rather than coasting. He moved his braking point up to the 200 marker, but even maintaining full throttle until then, he was still reaching corner entry speed way too early, so on a couple of clean runs we tried 175. He got quite a thrill out of that (as did I!), but if I could do it again I might have told him to stay with 200. The extra 25-meter safety margin wouldn't have been the difference between successfully navigating T12 and going across the paved runoff, through the whole gravel pit, and into the wall as he did, but it might have kept him off the wall, and even in my lighter, lower-powered, over-braked, and similarly-tired GT4 I brake in the 140-160 range.

 

eeeek. Telling that you didn't mention how cold you were waiting around to get picked up after the incident. It must have been 20ish.

On a related note - ALWAYS ask about pads and fluids when getting into a C4/5/6 souped up vette. 9 out of 10 times you'll get a blank stare...or a "stock". Speed limit is 100mph in those cases.

 

He kept the engine running, which meant the heater stayed on. But yes it was bitterly cold after getting out of the car to look at it but before getting into the tow truck for a ride back to the paddock. Funny that you mention asking about pads and fluid because I do always do that, although after I read your post I realized that I didn't ask either of my students on that particular day for some reason. Maybe the cold had adled my brain.

 

I didnt realize they allowed you guys to pick students, that is nice. The folks instructing Vettes and McLarens should get additional hazard pay.

Wise approach and after owning 5th, 6th, and 7th gen Vettes, I would add C7 to that list as well.

Interesting, I would certainly have thought engine off is a requirement after hitting a wall unless you can drive away. That is what we were told when I was at Bondurant, especially after one of the students hit a wall lightly and the car subsequently caught fire.

I would be concerned about a fuel or oil line rupture with all the hot parts starting a fire, not to mention various plastic and other pieces that could light off.

 

I agree on the hazard pay!
Usually when I instruct newbies I choose the guys in the caymans or boxsters. However there are several times when they show up in a Vette or Viper! You have to be ready for anything.

 

I started to request cars after 2 events ago. I was assigned to a "race car" that was prepared for Chump Car. It was a 944 and a rolling piece of crap. His driving was horrible and then the fuel line breaks inside the car and I am getting soaked with gas. I said enough of that crap. All I could imaging was walking around like Niki Lauda the rest of my life! I drive very conservatively and want to instruct the same way.

My big take-away is the speed limit on the back straight. Depending on the car/driver I will do that.