Dundon GT4/Spyder Race Header Group Buy
01-11-2017, 05:52 PM
#646
01-11-2017, 05:54 PM
#647
X1000
I did this with some GMG headers i picked up for my gt3.
Same start location, did 15 runs on oem setup, logged outside temp/ fuel etc. Ran in 3rd gear to avoid "driver" input. Used 2 different brand loggers.
then identical setup only variable gmg headers, (warmer day when i did gmg runs by 10F)
IIRC, gmg headers out of slowest run, it was still .61 of a second faster over stock.
I did this with some GMG headers i picked up for my gt3.
Same start location, did 15 runs on oem setup, logged outside temp/ fuel etc. Ran in 3rd gear to avoid "driver" input. Used 2 different brand loggers.
then identical setup only variable gmg headers, (warmer day when i did gmg runs by 10F)
IIRC, gmg headers out of slowest run, it was still .61 of a second faster over stock.
THANK YOU! FINALLY HARD DATA.
Keep it coming. I can assure you that my Vbox will be fired up if I decide to do headers!
01-11-2017, 06:31 PM
#648
Rennlist Member
Nick do you understand the reason for a titanium stabilized austenitic stainless?
01-11-2017, 06:53 PM
#649
Rennlist Member
just came for my daily dose of RL drama. Awesome.
Stout: right on.
Stout: right on.
01-11-2017, 06:58 PM
#650
DeMan Motorsport has a stock GT4 with no mods and we are going to install the Porsche Motorsport factory CAT Delete "cats" that were made for the GT4 Clubsport series. They are identical to the factory cats with the exception they are "hollow" without catalyst.
This should be a very good representation of how much Power is available by just removing the restriction from the system.
Stay tuned.
This should be a very good representation of how much Power is available by just removing the restriction from the system.
Stay tuned.
I'd be curious to see these on stock headers compared to some of the aftermarket catless headers to see just what role the pre-collector aspect plats compared to the cat delete in the power gains.
01-11-2017, 08:55 PM
#652
Yes, a grade of 304 will work, but it will fail even in a NA application after a certain amount of time. Its not just heat that causes cracks in Exhaust systems.
Isn't this why 321 is used for longer life and where you can go thinner wall and make the system lighter?
01-11-2017, 11:55 PM
#654
RL Community Team
Rennlist Member
Rennlist Member
X1000
I did this with some GMG headers i picked up for my gt3.
Same start location, did 15 runs on oem setup, logged outside temp/ fuel etc. Ran in 3rd gear to avoid "driver" input. Used 2 different brand loggers.
then identical setup only variable gmg headers, (warmer day when i did gmg runs by 10F)
IIRC, gmg headers out of slowest run, it was still .61 of a second faster over stock.
I did this with some GMG headers i picked up for my gt3.
Same start location, did 15 runs on oem setup, logged outside temp/ fuel etc. Ran in 3rd gear to avoid "driver" input. Used 2 different brand loggers.
then identical setup only variable gmg headers, (warmer day when i did gmg runs by 10F)
IIRC, gmg headers out of slowest run, it was still .61 of a second faster over stock.
01-12-2017, 12:17 AM
#655
GT3 player par excellence
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
Lifetime Rennlist
Member
This.
To be clear none of us want the OP to fail, on the other hand as business owners all we want is to have a high quality product with aggressive margins that we know works and we can sell. Its a numbers game for us. And while I sell Fabspeed, Akrapovic, Capristo etc etc I have zero skin in this game as far as what vendor etc. Because every customer has a different liquidity and might not want to spend X on a component.
I deal with vendors as such: I have to be able to make money, need the product yesterday, it has to work as advertised, and most importantly if in the case that something goes wrong the vendor has to have my back and support his product.
I was the first person to have these headers on a dyno back to back and I have been very quiet as of late. But the way Rick has been treated really irks me. We made the same power delta he did (actually a few HP more IIRC it was 18). In order for any vendor-shop relationship to work there has to be respect for the others abilities. Maybe we all did the dyno testing wrong? Who knows. But at the end of the day you cannot market and produce a product making claims that are not easy to duplicate. If we went back and forth (the dyno that we use is off site) to the dyno all the time to get that number we would be upside down on the job.
I think the back and forth needs to stop. These headers make a FEW more HP than the competition? Yes. Are they built well? yes. Do they sound good? yes. Those are the facts.
Also it was known that we had a car on the dyno etc. For the record no one ever reached out to us asking why we didn't make the numbers on the posted data here. Why? because we stayed off the forums is my opinion.
Rick and John are both beasts at what they do. You don't stay in business that long buy not knowing your tradecraft. Respect them for who they are. They have earned it.
My .02
-T.O.
To be clear none of us want the OP to fail, on the other hand as business owners all we want is to have a high quality product with aggressive margins that we know works and we can sell. Its a numbers game for us. And while I sell Fabspeed, Akrapovic, Capristo etc etc I have zero skin in this game as far as what vendor etc. Because every customer has a different liquidity and might not want to spend X on a component.
I deal with vendors as such: I have to be able to make money, need the product yesterday, it has to work as advertised, and most importantly if in the case that something goes wrong the vendor has to have my back and support his product.
I was the first person to have these headers on a dyno back to back and I have been very quiet as of late. But the way Rick has been treated really irks me. We made the same power delta he did (actually a few HP more IIRC it was 18). In order for any vendor-shop relationship to work there has to be respect for the others abilities. Maybe we all did the dyno testing wrong? Who knows. But at the end of the day you cannot market and produce a product making claims that are not easy to duplicate. If we went back and forth (the dyno that we use is off site) to the dyno all the time to get that number we would be upside down on the job.
I think the back and forth needs to stop. These headers make a FEW more HP than the competition? Yes. Are they built well? yes. Do they sound good? yes. Those are the facts.
Also it was known that we had a car on the dyno etc. For the record no one ever reached out to us asking why we didn't make the numbers on the posted data here. Why? because we stayed off the forums is my opinion.
Rick and John are both beasts at what they do. You don't stay in business that long buy not knowing your tradecraft. Respect them for who they are. They have earned it.
My .02
-T.O.
i dont believe in headers or exhaust neither do i believe in god.
but i respect rick, john BGB and you tim.
facts are facts.
+2. What a great post.
The idea that Rick DeMan is being chided for providing hard data to the community, and doing so in such a respectful, high-road manner, is as sad as it is crazy. He is not only a shop owner who had the tools to offer the community hard data and spent his own money to do so, he is a potential customer or even dealer for Dundon.
This is not the first time I've seen "reversal truths" spun on this thread—taking a thing and calling it the opposite. I opted out of the conversation some time ago, deciding not to post my response to what I felt were plainly false and illogical statements—none of them authored by anyone at Dundon, but rather from a group of what might be termed "Dundon apologists." But now to see posts attacking Rick for not having courtesy or respect for others truly shocks me. Bit pot meet kettle?
One tuner recently lamented a new generation of GT enthusiasts, calling them "dumber and more tillable" for choosing parts from new and/or unknown suppliers with big claims and little or no track record over established companies known for quality products, honesty, known gains, and good service. I don't have a fully formed opinion on that, but I am definitely getting the sense that there is a shift here on Rennlist, one in which newcomers don't approach the forum with an attitude that they might learn something here alongside the rest of us. Instead of working with new information and discussing it, they attack the source and/or shade the data. That's not completely new on RL, but I do sense a shift. Am I alone? Can we maybe move the temperament of this discussion back to something more in the spirit of RL?
The idea that Rick DeMan is being chided for providing hard data to the community, and doing so in such a respectful, high-road manner, is as sad as it is crazy. He is not only a shop owner who had the tools to offer the community hard data and spent his own money to do so, he is a potential customer or even dealer for Dundon.
This is not the first time I've seen "reversal truths" spun on this thread—taking a thing and calling it the opposite. I opted out of the conversation some time ago, deciding not to post my response to what I felt were plainly false and illogical statements—none of them authored by anyone at Dundon, but rather from a group of what might be termed "Dundon apologists." But now to see posts attacking Rick for not having courtesy or respect for others truly shocks me. Bit pot meet kettle?
One tuner recently lamented a new generation of GT enthusiasts, calling them "dumber and more tillable" for choosing parts from new and/or unknown suppliers with big claims and little or no track record over established companies known for quality products, honesty, known gains, and good service. I don't have a fully formed opinion on that, but I am definitely getting the sense that there is a shift here on Rennlist, one in which newcomers don't approach the forum with an attitude that they might learn something here alongside the rest of us. Instead of working with new information and discussing it, they attack the source and/or shade the data. That's not completely new on RL, but I do sense a shift. Am I alone? Can we maybe move the temperament of this discussion back to something more in the spirit of RL?
perhaps we find a track day and get these cars fitted with the different headers and have PL flog them?
for issue 001?
01-12-2017, 01:45 AM
#656
"""This is not the first time I've seen "reversal truths" spun on this thread—taking a thing and calling it the opposite. I opted out of the conversation some time ago, deciding not to post my response to what I felt were plainly false and illogical statements—none of them authored by anyone at Dundon, but rather from a group of what might be termed "Dundon apologists."But now to see posts attacking Rick for not having courtesy or respect for others truly shocks me. Bit pot meet kettle? """
I ""resemble"" these remarks, especially the last two sentences. If this is directed at me I'll take it head on. I don't care. What I do care is that honesty on both sides of this discussion is upheld.
If I was in business and bought something from a company that did not appear to deliver what it was said to, I would not go directly to the internet and say such things. Nor would I challenge the other company on the internet and use the term "BS". I would have called this company and asked , how are you performing your testing? Why am I not seeing what you are? From talking to someone I know that has knowledge of what did happen or did not happen, yes that call was never made.
That to me smells of intent and in my opinion lacks professional courtesy and disrespect for a fellow vendor.
This forum and this thread, is read by some of the most respected people in the Porsche aftermarket. These people have made it their mission to understand the mapping strategies involved in DI engines. I suggest many of you that have posted here do the same. You may learn something. It's clear talking to these experienced knowledgeable people, that many of the opinions posted, some here do not understand the new DI strategies either and how critical certain parameters are in performance.
Gone are the days when you made something that when bolted to a car it made horsepower unabated without consequences. If you are in the exhaust business you better understand how the strategies work. Same for anything else, to do with modifying these newer cars today. You can assemble these cars with off the shelf stock GT3 RS parts, and make them 4.0L's but that doesn't make you anything more than an engine assembler. You can use an aftermarket device that manipulates the stock maps to make more HP, but does this mean you understand the strategies involved.
Just because you were successful in the past, doesn't mean that you will be given the same opportunity of success today, unless you school yourself on new technologies. Some of the posts posts here prove my point.
Simon out!!!!!
I ""resemble"" these remarks, especially the last two sentences. If this is directed at me I'll take it head on. I don't care. What I do care is that honesty on both sides of this discussion is upheld.
If I was in business and bought something from a company that did not appear to deliver what it was said to, I would not go directly to the internet and say such things. Nor would I challenge the other company on the internet and use the term "BS". I would have called this company and asked , how are you performing your testing? Why am I not seeing what you are? From talking to someone I know that has knowledge of what did happen or did not happen, yes that call was never made.
That to me smells of intent and in my opinion lacks professional courtesy and disrespect for a fellow vendor.
This forum and this thread, is read by some of the most respected people in the Porsche aftermarket. These people have made it their mission to understand the mapping strategies involved in DI engines. I suggest many of you that have posted here do the same. You may learn something. It's clear talking to these experienced knowledgeable people, that many of the opinions posted, some here do not understand the new DI strategies either and how critical certain parameters are in performance.
Gone are the days when you made something that when bolted to a car it made horsepower unabated without consequences. If you are in the exhaust business you better understand how the strategies work. Same for anything else, to do with modifying these newer cars today. You can assemble these cars with off the shelf stock GT3 RS parts, and make them 4.0L's but that doesn't make you anything more than an engine assembler. You can use an aftermarket device that manipulates the stock maps to make more HP, but does this mean you understand the strategies involved.
Just because you were successful in the past, doesn't mean that you will be given the same opportunity of success today, unless you school yourself on new technologies. Some of the posts posts here prove my point.
Simon out!!!!!
01-12-2017, 01:55 AM
#657
Rennlist Member
Ugh
01-12-2017, 02:03 AM
#658
Drifting
1,002 grams x 2 = 2,004 grams the gmg headers lighter over oem .
according to my data that i'm looking at now as we speak i achieved the start and end speeds ~avg 100 feet QUICKER with the gmg headers- doubt 2004 grams can have that effect.
p.s. with my gmg header runs, i didn't do more then getting engine oil warm, in terms of ecu adjusting for new headers..FWIW
p.s.s. i'm out- like spyerx already stated, this is getting painful.
01-12-2017, 03:31 AM
#659
nice vids, yes the sound can accurately be described as INSANE 😝
