Notices
GT4/Spyder Discussions about the 981 GT4/Spyder

strut tower failure

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 12:55 PM
  #721  
hf1's Avatar
hf1
Rennlist Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 10,430
Likes: 1,689
From: Northeast/Europe
Default

Starting to get serious when shops are noticing and talking about this. I wonder how long Porsche has been aware of this problem with 981 and 991. They’ve been making them for 6+ years now.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 01:55 PM
  #722  
jasonturbo's Avatar
jasonturbo
Racer
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 265
Likes: 78
From: North Vancouver
Default

I believe these strut towers are cast based on the geometry and the markings, some have suggested "thinning" of the metal due to the forming (forging) process, I can assure you these are not forged.



Looking at the base of the tower, the purpose of the integrated gussets is to distribute the stress over a larger area, based on what we have seen it would appear that the gusset design is inadequate.

My suggestion to Porsche would be to modify the gusset design and increase the radius of the bend where the tower transitions from horizontal to vertical plane, both of these changes could be very effective in improving the distribution of stresses.

Having said that, for the current crop of affected owners, I have to believe that someone will develop a simple external reinforcement plate to improve the distribution of stresses by transferring the loads away from the bend/tangent area where the failures appear to occur/originate. The plate would be mounted atop the strut tower and would extend down the vertical walls of the tower approximately 50-75mm, the plate would be mounted to the top of the tower using the existing strut assembly hardware and would be glued and riveted to the horizontal wall of the tower.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 02:01 PM
  #723  
benben01's Avatar
benben01
Rennlist Member
 
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 365
Likes: 21
From: Maryland
Default

Originally Posted by CardiffDweller
There was an update yesterday on youtube's "vehicle villains" channel for that yellow GT4 that had the strut tower fail. ....I had a little laugh when the owner wiped off a big deposit from a flying bird off the fender, smeared it onto the tire, then put his hand right into his pocket, then continued to drink his coffee with that hand and the lid off the cup.
Same here.. Saw the video as well.. Guess that's why those Brits are so wiry..

On a separate note, took off all the plastic trim around the frunk yesterday to adjust the driver side bumper alignment to the fender by the headlight area (my ocd'ness). Took the opportunity to inspect the strut towers carefully per the video. It took less than 5 mins to pull off the trim.. Well worth it for the piece of mind to ensure you don't have any signs damage.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 02:09 PM
  #724  
GoKart Mozart's Avatar
GoKart Mozart
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 416
Likes: 25
Default

Originally Posted by jasonturbo
I believe these strut towers are cast based on the geometry and the markings, some have suggested "thinning" of the metal due to the forming (forging) process, I can assure you these are not forged.



Looking at the base of the tower, the purpose of the integrated gussets is to distribute the stress over a larger area, based on what we have seen it would appear that the gusset design is inadequate.

My suggestion to Porsche would be to modify the gusset design and increase the radius of the bend where the tower transitions from horizontal to vertical plane, both of these changes could be very effective in improving the distribution of stresses.

Having said that, for the current crop of affected owners, I have to believe that someone will develop a simple external reinforcement plate that would extend down the vertical walls of the tower approximately 50-75mm, this plate could be glued and riveted to the horizontal wall of the existing tower (In addition to being secured at the top by the strut assy. bolts) and would greatly improve the distribution of stresses by transferring the loads away from the bend/tangent area where the failures appear to occur/originate.

Smells like a business opportunity...
Definitely a casting, now that I see a picture of the inside. The difficulty in reinforcing this, is that the reinforcement needs to be on the inside, and manufacturing a "cup" that fits exactly inside there would be close to impossible to make, unless you have the CAD design of the current casing. Unless a 3D scanning device is accurate enough, but I am not familiar how precise they are? And even if they are, you would then have to make another casing, meaning you have to make molds, which are really expensive and only get cost effective over time, making a lots of parts off of them. The way I see it, we need for Porsche to come up with a fix or recall.

Personally I just hope for the best and that it won't happen to me. Avoid potholes and going off track where I could hit a big bump at all cost. And if it happens then I will make the insurance or Porsche pay for it. No need to have sleepless nights over it. This shouldn't happen, but because they push the envelope making things as light as possible, $hit does happen. GT4 and GT3 are still amazing cars regardless.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 02:43 PM
  #725  
Yellow Submarine's Avatar
Yellow Submarine
Racer
 
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 281
Likes: 89
From: Flanders EU
Default

Originally Posted by CardiffDweller
There was an update yesterday on youtube's "vehicle villains" channel for that yellow GT4 that had the strut tower fail. The link is easy to find. It was hard to understand the Scottish mechanic through his thick burr but I think he was saying that the first crack started with one of the vertical bolts on the right side of the tower if facing the windshield. The owner said Porsche told him it wasn't covered due to some sort of external forces verbiage. Interestingly, his repair quote was on the order of 5 or 6k pounds. They discussed removing the fender for the repair, plus some of the panels, and pointed out the glue that Porsche uses to secure the strut tower. None of them mentioned using a jig for the frame straightening so who knows. I had a little laugh when the owner wiped off a big deposit from a flying bird off the fender, smeared it onto the tire, then put his hand right into his pocket, then continued to drink his coffee with that hand and the lid off the cup.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 02:56 PM
  #726  
jasonturbo's Avatar
jasonturbo
Racer
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 265
Likes: 78
From: North Vancouver
Default

Originally Posted by GoKart Mozart
Definitely a casting, now that I see a picture of the inside. The difficulty in reinforcing this, is that the reinforcement needs to be on the inside,
Why would it be installed on the inside? Aesthetics?

Mounting the plate on the top of the strut tower (The outside) would not impact the overall suspension setup.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 03:42 PM
  #727  
GoKart Mozart's Avatar
GoKart Mozart
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 416
Likes: 25
Default

Originally Posted by jasonturbo
Why would it be installed on the inside? Aesthetics?

Mounting the plate on the top of the strut tower (The outside) would not impact the overall suspension setup.
Not ascetics, just strength wise. The pressure is coming from the inside.. Mounting something on the outside would to little to nothing, unless it was glued/riveted
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 04:12 PM
  #728  
ajw45's Avatar
ajw45
Three Wheelin'
20 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,629
Likes: 335
From: NYC <> Boston
Default

Originally Posted by Yellow Submarine
They also mentioned wheel damage at the busted corner so not an insignificant impact.....
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 04:44 PM
  #729  
jasonturbo's Avatar
jasonturbo
Racer
 
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 265
Likes: 78
From: North Vancouver
Default

The load is applied to the underside of the tower, anything that takes the load applied to the underside of the tower and distributes it elsewhere (IE: To the vertical plane of the tower) should contribute to a reduction in strut tower failure.

I agree that mounting something on the outside without glue/rivets would be futile, as would mounting anything on the inside without glue/rivets.

It would be very challenging to develop and manufacture a "contoured insert" that would mount inside the strut tower as a interference fit connection. The tolerance that you would need to maintain to effectively distribute the load away from the horizontal plane to the vertical plane would be virtually unachievable due to standard deviation in the manufacturing process of the vehicle/chassis. Assuming you could develop such a clever insert you would then need to resolve other issues such the differential coefficient of thermal expansion between the insert and the chassis under the wide variety of conditions one expects to encounter with a vehicle driven in varying climates and operating conditions.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 04:52 PM
  #730  
BioBanker's Avatar
BioBanker
Drifting
15 Year Member
 
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,151
Likes: 173
From: West Vancouver
Default

^ redirecting the forces such that they are focused elsewhere other than the strut tower is likely too challenging, which is why I feel, as a non-engineer or even a person who knows anything about this, that changing the characteristics of the force is probably the better route - ie, lengthen the duration of it so the same impact is dispersed over a longer period = lower power on the tower.
Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 04:54 PM
  #731  
GoKart Mozart's Avatar
GoKart Mozart
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 416
Likes: 25
Default

Originally Posted by jasonturbo
............... The tolerance that you would need to maintain to effectively distribute the load away from the horizontal plane to the vertical plane would be virtually unachievable due to standard deviation in the manufacturing process of the vehicle/chassis
This is the main issue IMO also. Thanks for wording it so perfectly.



Reply
Old Feb 28, 2019 | 05:15 PM
  #732  
Diablo Dude's Avatar
Diablo Dude
Race Car
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Sep 2016
Posts: 4,683
Likes: 2,968
From: California
Default

Originally Posted by O5C4R


yeah he’s a legend, worth half a billion, yet will talk to anyone
https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/ind...-60-and-beyond

Tony Quinn talking about toilets...


Reply
Old Mar 1, 2019 | 09:47 AM
  #733  
JPR's Avatar
JPR
Racer
 
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 404
Likes: 0
From: Miami, Fla.
Default

Are the shock towers on the 718 the same as in the 981?

Jpr
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2019 | 10:08 AM
  #734  
okie981's Avatar
okie981
Rennlist Member
10 Year Member
 
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 3,534
Likes: 764
From: On a pygmy pony over by the dental floss bush
Default

Originally Posted by JPR
Are the shock towers on the 718 the same as in the 981?

Jpr
According to this website, yes.
https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/pet/porsche/

Left part is 991.501.477.00
Right part is 991.501.478.00
Reply
Old Mar 1, 2019 | 11:45 AM
  #735  
GoKart Mozart's Avatar
GoKart Mozart
Racer
5 Year Member
 
Joined: Jul 2018
Posts: 416
Likes: 25
Default

Originally Posted by okie981
According to this website, yes.
https://nemigaparts.com/cat_spares/pet/porsche/

Left part is 991.501.477.00
Right part is 991.501.478.00
Ouch! So much for buying a new GT4 and avoiding this issue.......unless Porsche changes the part before they start production. Maybe that is why things are getting delayed.
Reply



All times are GMT -3. The time now is 06:47 PM.