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I'm between these and MCS 2-way remotes for my 718. I like that these are around $2.5k cheaper and you don't have the hassle of external cannisters.
More importantly, they are more properly engineered for our cars. It is an aluminum inverted monotube up front, and a steel inverted monotube out back, just like the OE shocks. There is a reason Porsche engineered it this way, because the load levels on each are high, especially in the rear. Adjusters are easy to reach.
MCS makes a great shock, but they are a small boutique company that doesn't have the resources to cost effectively mass produce inverted monotubes like Bilstein, or Ohlins does. This is why they use non-inverted, with as big of piston rod as they can to try and limit the bending forces on the shocks, which are high with strut-based cars. That's why you ideally want an inverted monotube for a strut, or else it needs to be a very stiff non-inverted body.
More importantly, they are more properly engineered for our cars. It is an aluminum inverted monotube up front, and a steel inverted monotube out back, just like the OE shocks. There is a reason Porsche engineered it this way, because the load levels on each are high, especially in the rear. Adjusters are easy to reach.
MCS makes a great shock, but they are a small boutique company that doesn't have the resources to cost effectively mass produce inverted monotubes like Bilstein, or Ohlins does. This is why they use non-inverted, with as big of piston rod as they can to try and limit the bending forces on the shocks, which are high with strut-based cars. That's why you ideally want an inverted monotube for a strut, or else it needs to be a very stiff non-inverted body.
I'm basically considering the Bilsteins based on your feedback as I know you have run multiple other setups on similar cars. I've run MCS 2 ways (M2C) and Ohlins R&T (2x M3) before, I didn't feel the MCS were materially different enough over the Ohlins. My shop who have done a great job getting my car dialed in from an alignment perspective and certainly trust their opinion really like MCS. I understand that based on their experience MCS have been great, but I'm just not convinced they are better than Bilstein for what I want. All the benefits to the Bilstein (OEM testing, monotube, spring rates) certainly resonate from my experience. Appreciate your feedback on the setup, seems a few others have run it too but not posted their experience yet.
I'm basically considering the Bilsteins based on your feedback as I know you have run multiple other setups on similar cars. I've run MCS 2 ways (M2C) and Ohlins R&T (2x M3) before, I didn't feel the MCS were materially different enough over the Ohlins. My shop who have done a great job getting my car dialed in from an alignment perspective and certainly trust their opinion really like MCS. I understand that based on their experience MCS have been great, but I'm just not convinced they are better than Bilstein for what I want. All the benefits to the Bilstein (OEM testing, monotube, spring rates) certainly resonate from my experience. Appreciate your feedback on the setup, seems a few others have run it too but not posted their experience yet.
Yeah, MCS has a great following in the BMW community and have a nice product offering for many cars. I know lots of guys who street and track MCS with zero problems for tons of miles. I was in your same boat with my 370Z where the Ohlins RT and MCS-2ays. Couldn't justify over double the price for MCS. The Ohlins R&T are good too, but something about the digressive piston they use is just too harsh or aggressive, or the DFV valve on track reacts too fast sometimes on track. I can't put my finger on it. I think it's because they try to cater to such a wide range of customer use, street, track, auto-x. There is just something a little different about the digressive piston that Bilstein uses that just seems to "feel" a little better on track, just feels like they generate more grip.
Admittedly, the adjustment range on the Bilstein is not a big as Ohlins, but that's by design. Bilstein will tell you that shocks are for fine tuning, if you don't have the right spring rate, they believe you should change the spring rate first, then adjust the shocks. So if you plan to go over 20-25% stiffer than the kit's spring rates, then I would go ahead and re-valve from the beginning. But given the kit's rates, I think 80-90% of users will be fine, as they are already stiffer than almost every other kit out there, and their setup is the best of any kit available in terms of supplied spring rates. PSI is now the official Bilstein servicer for all their shocks.
Are there better setups out there, sure, but at a premium. I'm sure you could get a little more performance out of the Ohlins TTX or similar new KW Competition lines, but at a much higher price. For a dual strut car, I just like the idea of using inverted monotubes, which will certainly be the most durable setup for long-term use on street and track. For the money, the Clubsports are kinda in a space all their own. They are better engineered than the "boutique" shock products, better than any of the twin-tube KW stuff, but a little under the super high end race shocks like TTX. I don't think you'll be disappointed.
Just want to chime in with a "thank you" to @Mvez for being so generous with information and feedback. Based on your opinion, and the fact that you've been able to benchmark with a lot of the other options I considered, I went ahead and got a set of Bilstein Clubsports for my 981 GT4. Especially the fact that you mentioned improved downforce as a key variable to choosing stiffer springs helped me - I've got wing risers, guerney flap and canards. I'll use the starting point you mentioned and take it from there.
I'm leaving for the Nürburgring next weekend and the only thing I regret is that there's not time to swap them and dial them in before I leave...
1) Even with the PASM delete kit, will you still get a warning/error message on startup?
Yes, but you clear it with a stalk on the steering column. No big deal.
2) How do these ride on the street? I'm probably only 25% track time on my car, so money might be better spent on coaching for me.
It's the trackable Cayman variant. It's going to be firm/tight on the street with any shocks that are tuned for the car. I don't find it bothersome, and I still want it firm on street legal windy road drives.
In the middle of the install right now but I can't figure out what would be a reasonable initial ride height setting. I was really happy with the geometry of my car before removing my OEM suspension so I wouldn't want to sway too far from that but right now I don't have starting point.
There is some cryptic writing in the install manual but I can't figure out where to measure, do you guys know?
03-15-2023, 06:26 PM
