champignon

I am considering buying a Porsche, but I really don't know very much about the cars, and maybe some here can steer me in the right direction. This would be to "round out" my car collection, as such.

First, the last thing I need is another car; I already have 5 of them, 4 of which are former generation and older BMWs. These include a 1M, a 135is Convertible, a 135i Coupe, and a Z3M Coupe (unfortunately, the S52, not S54 version). My practical car is a 2016 Golf R. All of my vehicles have manual transmissions and I have no interest in Automatic transmission vehicles, no matter how wonderful the AT is :-)

I have some storage considerations in that my storage space is already more or less full, however I could shoehorn in one additional car as long as it was no longer than 15 feet in total length.

As to a car, I would want something that has already significantly depreciated, so I would expect this means it needs to be at least 3 years old, maybe better if it is at least 5. MT is a must, and anything less than 275 HP is probably of no interest, and somewhat more would be somewhat better. Electric steering is a NO NO. Fun to drive is an absolute must!

I do need some cargo carrying capacity, in that I would want to carry some Costco items in the car as well as my 43lb doodle who can't sit in the front seat due to concerns about premature death by airbag, and wanting to avoid distractions while driving; he also sometimes gets car sick, and a somewhat confined space for him is probably a good thing.

I don't want a convertible; I already have one and that is enough given the climate where I live. A back seat could be a plus, but it would be used mostly for storage or for the dog.

I don't want a troublesome car or a car with an Achilles heel that is going to have me in and out of the shop repeatedly with the vehicle. I don't work on cars mechanically other than extremely simple stuff, however I do keep them clean and neat and wax them from time to time. I don't think I would ever drive this car in the snow, but in the rain, yes. I would not get snow tires but possible would consider good AS tires vs. simply summer performance tires as the other choice.

Other criteria would be cost (probably no more than $40K under most circumstances, cheaper is better) and mileage, not looking to buy a car with more than maybe 45K miles on it, less is better. I would travel up to maybe 500 miles to pick up the car in person if need be, and having been seriously burned on a couple of out of state purchases on vehicles I did not inspect beforehand, I would never do that again :-)

From what I am seeing so far in my own research, a Cayman or Cayman S, or perhaps a 911 of some sort, would best fill the bill, but as I said, I know nothing of these cars so I'm trying to educate myself before seriously looking at specific cars.

I don't regard cars as investments, so while I would obviously not want to buy something that depreciates hugely every time I look at it, I am not really looking for a collectible vehicle, just one I will enjoy owning.

Given these criteria, and knowing how much people on car forums LOVE to spend other peoples' money, what would you suggest I consider buying and why?

Thanks very much for all responses!

Addendum: I really would prefer an NA engine; I already own 4 Turbo engine cars, which is enough.

bkrantz

Well, since a Cayman has no back seat (and certainly no space under the hatch for a larger dog) you could focus on a 911. The rear seat backs flip down to make a large shelf.

With your price and mileage range I think you are looking for a later 997 series or early 991 series. Both are pretty bullet proof, with no major mechanical issues (so far).

I suggest you browse the 997 and 991 forums and see what people are talking about.

champignon

Well this is really helpful information and I appreciate it. I didn't think that 40 lb dogs are "larger," given that there are a couple of enormous 100+ lb dogs I regularly encounter on the bikepath when I walk my dog. If you had a couple of Newfies, what kind of vehicle would you be obligated to buy?

But I digress.

There aren't many used Porsches for sale right now where I live, other than for some aged Boxters. There is a 2000 Boxter S with around 40K miles on it for sale locally that looks to be in really nice shape. Granted, there's nowhere for fido and it's a convertible. The asking price is less than $15K.

Should I have a look at it?

Thanks.

mark_schnell

I know you said NA, but... I have to add in 996 Turbo or GT2 to the mix. After looking at Porsche (specifically between 996, 997, 991 versions of 911) for a few weeks, that's the model choice I came to based on a lot of the factors you mention and wanting the car to be more of an investment than a depreciating asset. My daily driver is a 2002 E39 M5, and I made room in the garage by selling my Z3M (Roadster).


The 996 Turbo has depreciated about as far as they might go, and may be rebounding. The Turbo and GT2 don't suffer from the dreaded IMS bearing issue in the base 996 and 997.1, and the motors are bulletproof once you get the coolant pipes welded and/or pinned. With X50 package and a decent tune, it will be the quickest car in your fleet.


I've used mine for trips to Home Depot and Costco. I've stuffed our 5'10" son in the back seat. He had to lean sideways a little. The back seats are like movie props, just for show, but a big dog should be comfortable back there on a doggy blanket.

champignon

First, let me thank those who responded to my post. I tried to respond a couple of times, but for some reason the system would not accept my responses and said they needed "moderation." They never went up. Hopefully this one will, now that a few more days have passed.

In the interim I test drove a Boxster from a private party which was immaculate however obviously not meeting my criteria and also being subject to the IMS risk. Today I drove a 2006 911 Carrera, which was in great shape however the risk of IMS failure turning it into a boat anchor after spending ~$40K on it gives me pause. Buying an extended warranty for almost $5K for 3 years makes no sense in a car that I might put 2000 or maybe 3000 miles on annually. The fact that it is a 2006 apparently makes the risk less, but any protective action basically prohibitively expensive.

So I think I am going to have to continue looking. Fortunately, there is no rush!

Thanks again for all your comments and please keep them coming!

mark_schnell

A note about IMS - and others may end up commenting also:

From what I've learned since joining this forum, the OEM IMS bearing uses round "ball" bearings in a ring around the Intermediate Shaft. Note that (from what I've heard) 997 Gen 1 (up to 2008) still had this issue, which was corrected in 997.2 (2009-2012).

Useful article on Pelican Parts site with "retrofit" kit to beef up the bearing:
http://www.pelicanparts.com/techarti...MS_Bearing.htm

I have seen another bearing replacement that used roller bearings instead of ball bearings, which supposedly is 100x better.

If I was spending $40k of your money to buy a car, here would be some contenders:

997.2 Carrera Coupe located in TX. Yeah, it's a PDK and not stick. It's basically an automated manual transmission with lightning-fast shifts.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=449051895

996 Turbo Coupe located in SC. Yeah, it's not NA, and it has 65k miles. But that's just warming up for a Mezger engine, really.
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=434071267
or this one in RI with 75k miles:
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=431380111

...or go Air Cooled and be the envy of Porsche Enthusiasts everywhere when you get one of the 74 manual coupe cars listed on Autotrader that were built from 1981 to 1999...

champignon

This IMS issue is really taking the wind out of my sails, so to speak, when it comes to looking at used Porsches to buy.

I have a lot of experience with BMWs and BMW the company, and they have certainly had their share of design flaws, but they never let anything like this go on as long as Porsche did, plus they have generally stepped up to the plate and taken responsibility for their errors and helped customers out. Every time I read a thread here or elsewhere about some poor owner who gets suddenly stuck with a boat anchor (or "roller" in Porche aficionado parlance) when they paid up for what they thought was a quality car, just leaves me speechless.

Now I am someone who could actually afford, if need be, to eat the cost of a new engine or to just dispose of a roller or boat anchor; but why should I?

The 2006 Carrera I drove today was a really cool car, very enjoyable to drive, and quite a bit different than other cars I have owned or currently own. It's priced around $40K and probably worth close to that, given the condition. But why would I take the chance, what exactly is the incentive to take the risk? There are all sorts of used cars I could buy for that money and not give a second thought to them suddenly becoming a piece of lawn art?

I am going to have to give this whole subject some more thought. At this point, I think I would just avoid any car that might be subject to this problem, which basically rules out a huge percentage of the used cars for sale that are still in really good condition. But better that than worrying about this problem, which for me at this point is really someone else's problem, and why should I step into it, so to speak?

I'll keep looking, but this is a real mess. The risk might only be 5 or 10 percent for the given car, but if it happens to you then the risk is 100%.

Thanks

champignon

Thanks very much for these suggestions.

I have bought several cars at long distance, 2 that were transported sight unseen, and one I bought from Carmax that I paid to have transported to a dealer a few hundred miles away (was the closest one at that time). I got very seriously burned on one car sent to me in Idaho from the East Coast, billed as totally clean, but which turned out to be one big heap of rust. I ate $20K on that one, after paying a lawyer and eating all sorts of expenses. I will never do that again, and I don't intend to get on a long distance plane flight to go examine a car that likely won't work out. I have no problem flying regionally, like to Seattle or Portland, for example, but multi-hour flights in search of a car is not something I would do anymore.

As to an automatic, of whatever stripe, I will never buy another one by choice, but I do appreciate the suggestions.

I'm fortunate in that I don't need another car, so either the right one is going to come my way somehow, or I will make do with "only" five cars for the time being :-)

mark_schnell

I'd set up an alert on Autotrader and/or cars.com for cars within a desired radius of your zip code matching the specs you want. Then you'll get an email when one pops up, and you can move on it before the rest of the prospective buying community. If you are looking at rare cars, the good ones go fast.


A $40k 996TT (which does not have IMS issues) stick-shift coupe with low miles will disappear quickly. I paid $48k for one with 41k miles and lots of people were sniffing.

champignon

Thanks very much for this suggestion; it is a good one! I am headed off on a long trip in 3 weeks, and my schedule is full of appointments between now and then, so unless something great drops into my lap very close by, I will have to defer my search until shortly before my return.

As I mentioned, I had looked and driven a 2006 911 Carrera with just under 30K miles. I liked the car, but have decided not to even consider it given the IMS risk. Do people think I am erring too much on the side of caution, and if so, why?

Thanks.

mark_schnell

I'm guilty of the same, so I can't comment.


There are plenty of people apparently happy with the retrofit solutions though. If I was moved to buy one of these cars, e.g. a 997.1 Carrera S or Carrera 4S, I would get the IMS retrofit.


IF I was going to buy a car with IMS bearing potential issue, this is the car I would buy: 13k miles, in Norco, for $44k
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...ngId=450404286

champignon

Unaffiliated 2nd hand car lots tend to be the repository for cars that no one else wants, although there is the occasional one that specializes in high end cars. The car looks superficially good, however is very low mileage and those appear to be the cars at greatest risk, from what I have read.

Just the thought of having the car die somewhere in the N. Nevada desert on the way back to Idaho gives me the shivers :-) Getting stuck in Elko or Winnemucca is the stuff of nightmares :-)

The easier accessibility of the bearing in that car is attractive, but you wouldn't think that a clutch replacement would be necessary at such few miles, so it would be a lot of expense without much additional benefit over dealing with the bearing defect.

Thanks for pointing out this car, and another one will definitely come along!

captainbaker

late 06 997's switched the IMS to a different design. After that IMS failure is rare in the 997.1 family. The 997 overall is the perfect evolution of the 911.

champignon

How would one know that a given 2006 997.1 vehicle has the newer design IMS?

Would it go on build date? Many 2006s would have been build in late 2005, I think.

Mark78

I also suggest you browse the 997 and 991 forums and see what people are talking about.