Carrera child seats
11-13-2001, 11:39 PM
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Carrera child seats
can anybody recommend a specific child seat and a toddler booster seat that will fit into the *rear seats* of my 993 Carrera? I've found a rear facing infant restraint designed for the front passenger seat, but nothing that fits kids safely into the back. What's a guy to do when he wants to take wife and two kids for a drive in the Carrera? Guess I'll have to squeeze them into the trunk. Thanks.
-Randy
-Randy
11-15-2001, 09:36 AM
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Dear Randy,
Leave the kids at home until they are old enough to sit safely in the rear if you must have them in the 911. There is no Porsche approved seat for the rear. There is no TÜV or other European nation approved seat for the rear of any of the 911s either. I do not know what the rules of the USA are in this matter. I am happy to send you a couple of photos of why kids should not be in the rear of a 911, in my opinion.
In the end though it is your choice,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
Leave the kids at home until they are old enough to sit safely in the rear if you must have them in the 911. There is no Porsche approved seat for the rear. There is no TÜV or other European nation approved seat for the rear of any of the 911s either. I do not know what the rules of the USA are in this matter. I am happy to send you a couple of photos of why kids should not be in the rear of a 911, in my opinion.
In the end though it is your choice,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
11-24-2001, 08:36 PM
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Hello
Porsche makes specific seats and also baby restarin systems for the front seat.
They are sold very cheap in germany ( don´t know what Fred Schwab is thinking about family support ) yet they are from top of the line manufactorers.
Check out http://www.netmotor.de
Tobias maybe had time for a english version.
If not search for the Kindersitze and send him a mail. Tobias had been a regular Rennlister and you will find issues about childseats in the old 911 forum archives
( Search for Tobias Kinderman )
Grüsse
Porsche makes specific seats and also baby restarin systems for the front seat.
They are sold very cheap in germany ( don´t know what Fred Schwab is thinking about family support ) yet they are from top of the line manufactorers.
Check out http://www.netmotor.de
Tobias maybe had time for a english version.
If not search for the Kindersitze and send him a mail. Tobias had been a regular Rennlister and you will find issues about childseats in the old 911 forum archives
( Search for Tobias Kinderman )
Grüsse
12-13-2001, 12:55 AM
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>can anybody recommend a specific child seat and a toddler booster
>seat that will fit into the *rear seat*
The challenge is finding a seat that is made to fit such a narrow area! We found that Evenflo's "Champion" was the only one that fit perfectly. Adrian suggests not bothering with this option until the kids are big enough, and I'd have to say that's not a bad idea. Still, the Champion fits snugly (your 933 will have shoulder belts) and with locking clips the seat should not move. My experience with the seat was on short trips, and it worked very well. We certainly received a warm welcome wherever we went! Just my $0.02.
_k_
>seat that will fit into the *rear seat*
The challenge is finding a seat that is made to fit such a narrow area! We found that Evenflo's "Champion" was the only one that fit perfectly. Adrian suggests not bothering with this option until the kids are big enough, and I'd have to say that's not a bad idea. Still, the Champion fits snugly (your 933 will have shoulder belts) and with locking clips the seat should not move. My experience with the seat was on short trips, and it worked very well. We certainly received a warm welcome wherever we went! Just my $0.02.
_k_
01-29-2002, 03:39 PM
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Just seen this thread, even though it's old -
Adrian - Porsche *do* sell baby seats for the rear seat in 911 cars. I've got one! And the instructions describe how to use it in the rear seat, both for 2- and 3-point belts.
Is this new since the thread??
Adrian - Porsche *do* sell baby seats for the rear seat in 911 cars. I've got one! And the instructions describe how to use it in the rear seat, both for 2- and 3-point belts.
Is this new since the thread??
01-30-2002, 06:11 AM
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Dear Greg,
This may be a PCGB or MOT approved seat but I can assure you this is not the case from the factory. I asked, twas that simple. PAG do not approve and nor do the TÜV any baby seat for the rear of a any Porsche model. I also asked the TÜV and Recaro.
Porsche cannot approve anything that is not TÜV approved in Germany and I am surprised that such things are available in England. However I am not doubting you that they are because the PCGB does have the authority to do such things as does the PCNA in the USA if they are prepared to take on the liability risk. Please though be careful when using the word "Porsche", you have to stipulate which one. If the doucments with this seat say TÜV approved and give a registration number it is possible to check the validity. No TÜV approval number then it is not PAG approved. If you have the TÜV number please let me have it and I can see if I can track it down and what its current status is. I do not know how long ago you obtained this seat though. A long time ago there were approved childs seats for the rear but they were discontinued according to Porsche many many moons ago. I actually have the latest list at home of approved baby seats for all autos under the control of the TÜV and there is currently nothing in the list for Porsche, front or back. However the rules recently changed, got very stiff indeed so this may have wiped out the front seat marketed by Porsche as well,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: If you check the archives you will find much more data and some of the numbers related to this subject.
This may be a PCGB or MOT approved seat but I can assure you this is not the case from the factory. I asked, twas that simple. PAG do not approve and nor do the TÜV any baby seat for the rear of a any Porsche model. I also asked the TÜV and Recaro.
Porsche cannot approve anything that is not TÜV approved in Germany and I am surprised that such things are available in England. However I am not doubting you that they are because the PCGB does have the authority to do such things as does the PCNA in the USA if they are prepared to take on the liability risk. Please though be careful when using the word "Porsche", you have to stipulate which one. If the doucments with this seat say TÜV approved and give a registration number it is possible to check the validity. No TÜV approval number then it is not PAG approved. If you have the TÜV number please let me have it and I can see if I can track it down and what its current status is. I do not know how long ago you obtained this seat though. A long time ago there were approved childs seats for the rear but they were discontinued according to Porsche many many moons ago. I actually have the latest list at home of approved baby seats for all autos under the control of the TÜV and there is currently nothing in the list for Porsche, front or back. However the rules recently changed, got very stiff indeed so this may have wiped out the front seat marketed by Porsche as well,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
PS: If you check the archives you will find much more data and some of the numbers related to this subject.
01-31-2002, 09:01 AM
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Hi Adrian.
The child seat has "PORSCHE" written all over it in the official Porsche logo. It also appears to be a Porsche product sourced from Germany, since the seat labels and the instructions are in German. (There are also English instructions.) The manual refers to it as a "Porsche Prince" child seat, and it has a Porsche part number :
Porsche Teile Nr: 000.802.015.00
As for TUV numbers I don't know what they look like, but the instructions do have a red diamond with "ECE 44/03" written inside it, and the manual refers specifically to the 911 model, and mentions use in front and back seats....
Does this make sense..?
Greg
The child seat has "PORSCHE" written all over it in the official Porsche logo. It also appears to be a Porsche product sourced from Germany, since the seat labels and the instructions are in German. (There are also English instructions.) The manual refers to it as a "Porsche Prince" child seat, and it has a Porsche part number :
Porsche Teile Nr: 000.802.015.00
As for TUV numbers I don't know what they look like, but the instructions do have a red diamond with "ECE 44/03" written inside it, and the manual refers specifically to the 911 model, and mentions use in front and back seats....
Does this make sense..?
Greg
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02-01-2002, 07:27 AM
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Dear Greg,
This must be very new. Maybe Porsche have been following these threads which some years ago and decided to do something about it.
This seat does not show up in any of the "Approved Seats" listings. When it does I will let you know. I must pointout though that mentioning being fitted into the rear seat and approved for use in the rear seat are 2 very different things. I am sure on the documents somewhere is a caveat for this. However now that you have been kind enough to provide some data I can go off and see what I can dig up,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
This must be very new. Maybe Porsche have been following these threads which some years ago and decided to do something about it.
This seat does not show up in any of the "Approved Seats" listings. When it does I will let you know. I must pointout though that mentioning being fitted into the rear seat and approved for use in the rear seat are 2 very different things. I am sure on the documents somewhere is a caveat for this. However now that you have been kind enough to provide some data I can go off and see what I can dig up,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
02-01-2002, 07:59 AM
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Dear Greg,
See that was quick. Off and back again. Okay, the Porsche Prince is not a new seat. I think the best thing to do is to post the article extract from Christophorus. This seat is "Not Approved" for installation in the rear of a 911 in Germany or in Switzerland from the documents and conversations I have had on the subject. Now if you conclude from this article that "possible to install" is tantamount to approval then that is your choice of course. The Porsche Prince is also not a baby seat it is for 9 months to 4 year old.
Anyway, please read the article and from this you obviously make your own judgement. Words used in this article need to be studied because Porsche
sort of give you the impression that the kids belong in the rear seat but it is only possible to fit the seat in the rear. I do not like this vague type of writing without clear reference to approvals and this is why I recommend checking with the people in the UK who handle this type of certification and approval. I sincererly believe that the approval or not lies with your local transport regulatory authorities. This is why you cannot find the letters TÜV in the package,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
"For many years, child-seat development at Porsche has been pursued on the basis of safety first: Porsche has now developed a convincing retention system for restraining small passengers who need special protection - and urgently recommends its use.
...Porsche safety experts sought a practical solution for transporting children and they have been successful. One result of their efforts toward greater passenger safety is the offer of special child seats for all age groups which suit the spatial and seating conditions in Porsche sports cars.
A very important recommendation in this respect: your heirs belong in the rear seats or on the front seat with the passenger air bag deactivated. Even the smallest child can be carried - with its back to the direction of travel - in a Porsche Babysafe on the passenger seat. For the Boxster, which has only two seats, the offspring can naturally be carried in front. In this case the passenger air bag must be deactivated.
Porsche child seats, developed in cooperation with the renowned child seat producer Britax-Römer, as well as their contents, are anchored and rendered safe by using the standard belts...
...Child seats offered in the Porsche Tequipment Progam thus differ considerably from other, over-the-counter offerings...
...Deactivating the passenger air bag in the 911 and Boxster models was make possible by a new generation of air bag control units. This system only deactivates the passenger air bag when the Porsche child seat is correctly installed on the right front seat. To do this a tongue fastened to the additional belt is inserted into a lock ahead of the passenger seat. This belt lock is mounted on a metal crosspiece of the car seat. It is installed by a Porsche Center or importer with simultaneous connection to the prepared electric circuit...
...Reliable air bag deactivation can be recognized by the air bag warning light blinking for ten seconds when the ignition is turned on...
...The high-quality program begins with the Porsche Babysafe which accepts small children up to nine months (Group 0)... ...Starting with Group 1 and the Porsche Prince seat model (nine months to four years), it is possible to place it on the rear seat of a 911. Children then travel facing forward. The seat shell is specially molded to the seat design of Porsche sports cars... ...Larger children, up to the age of twelve and a maximum of 36 kilograms, can be made comfortable in the Porsche Zoom and with the sleep support Comfy. Both can be adjusted to the actual size of the child".
See that was quick. Off and back again. Okay, the Porsche Prince is not a new seat. I think the best thing to do is to post the article extract from Christophorus. This seat is "Not Approved" for installation in the rear of a 911 in Germany or in Switzerland from the documents and conversations I have had on the subject. Now if you conclude from this article that "possible to install" is tantamount to approval then that is your choice of course. The Porsche Prince is also not a baby seat it is for 9 months to 4 year old.
Anyway, please read the article and from this you obviously make your own judgement. Words used in this article need to be studied because Porsche
sort of give you the impression that the kids belong in the rear seat but it is only possible to fit the seat in the rear. I do not like this vague type of writing without clear reference to approvals and this is why I recommend checking with the people in the UK who handle this type of certification and approval. I sincererly believe that the approval or not lies with your local transport regulatory authorities. This is why you cannot find the letters TÜV in the package,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
"For many years, child-seat development at Porsche has been pursued on the basis of safety first: Porsche has now developed a convincing retention system for restraining small passengers who need special protection - and urgently recommends its use.
...Porsche safety experts sought a practical solution for transporting children and they have been successful. One result of their efforts toward greater passenger safety is the offer of special child seats for all age groups which suit the spatial and seating conditions in Porsche sports cars.
A very important recommendation in this respect: your heirs belong in the rear seats or on the front seat with the passenger air bag deactivated. Even the smallest child can be carried - with its back to the direction of travel - in a Porsche Babysafe on the passenger seat. For the Boxster, which has only two seats, the offspring can naturally be carried in front. In this case the passenger air bag must be deactivated.
Porsche child seats, developed in cooperation with the renowned child seat producer Britax-Römer, as well as their contents, are anchored and rendered safe by using the standard belts...
...Child seats offered in the Porsche Tequipment Progam thus differ considerably from other, over-the-counter offerings...
...Deactivating the passenger air bag in the 911 and Boxster models was make possible by a new generation of air bag control units. This system only deactivates the passenger air bag when the Porsche child seat is correctly installed on the right front seat. To do this a tongue fastened to the additional belt is inserted into a lock ahead of the passenger seat. This belt lock is mounted on a metal crosspiece of the car seat. It is installed by a Porsche Center or importer with simultaneous connection to the prepared electric circuit...
...Reliable air bag deactivation can be recognized by the air bag warning light blinking for ten seconds when the ignition is turned on...
...The high-quality program begins with the Porsche Babysafe which accepts small children up to nine months (Group 0)... ...Starting with Group 1 and the Porsche Prince seat model (nine months to four years), it is possible to place it on the rear seat of a 911. Children then travel facing forward. The seat shell is specially molded to the seat design of Porsche sports cars... ...Larger children, up to the age of twelve and a maximum of 36 kilograms, can be made comfortable in the Porsche Zoom and with the sleep support Comfy. Both can be adjusted to the actual size of the child".
02-01-2002, 10:42 AM
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Thanks Adrian.
I see what you mean about the wording - it's interesting, isn't it?
In the manual that came with my child seat, the picture on the cover of the manual shows the seat installed in the rear of the car. As far as wording goes, it says things like:
"The Porsche Prince should always be used in the vehicle on the rear seat in the direction of travel and in conjunction with a 2- or 3-point seat belt...."
and
"The Porsche Prince may also be used on the front passenger seat..."
Then the next section is titled "Securing the child in the Porsche Prince on the rear seat system"
and so on. As far as I can tell the German instructions say exactly the same thing!
Weird, isn't it....
I see what you mean about the wording - it's interesting, isn't it?
In the manual that came with my child seat, the picture on the cover of the manual shows the seat installed in the rear of the car. As far as wording goes, it says things like:
"The Porsche Prince should always be used in the vehicle on the rear seat in the direction of travel and in conjunction with a 2- or 3-point seat belt...."
and
"The Porsche Prince may also be used on the front passenger seat..."
Then the next section is titled "Securing the child in the Porsche Prince on the rear seat system"
and so on. As far as I can tell the German instructions say exactly the same thing!
Weird, isn't it....
02-01-2002, 10:49 AM
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Dear Gregg,
It is the words that worry me. I know even back home in Australia that kiddies seats (had some experience seeing as we have three kids) had to have not only stickers but statements saying they are approved by the Australian DOT. Switzerland is the same and each component must have certification documentation to show the inspectors or police whichever control you first.
Still comes down to buyer beware though. I would still contact your MOT or any other group and check. This would be only for piece of mind and insurance. If you know what I mean. Mind you I have to be 100% honest and say I do not believe the rear of a 911 is any place for a baby. I do have my reasons for this but I will share these privately by email if you wish,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
It is the words that worry me. I know even back home in Australia that kiddies seats (had some experience seeing as we have three kids) had to have not only stickers but statements saying they are approved by the Australian DOT. Switzerland is the same and each component must have certification documentation to show the inspectors or police whichever control you first.
Still comes down to buyer beware though. I would still contact your MOT or any other group and check. This would be only for piece of mind and insurance. If you know what I mean. Mind you I have to be 100% honest and say I do not believe the rear of a 911 is any place for a baby. I do have my reasons for this but I will share these privately by email if you wish,
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
02-07-2002, 06:45 AM
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On the baby seat issue. I have found out from TEquipment that the Porsche baby seats and kiddies seats are only "approved" in the USA. I have no more details, yet!!, but there are limitations on sales in other countries.
The statement, I found on this site, "USA only". This is what I followed up, or am trying to anyway,
<a href="http://www.autohaus.com/boutique/tequipment/tequipment.html" target="_blank">http://www.autohaus.com/boutique/tequipment/tequipment.html</a>
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
The statement, I found on this site, "USA only". This is what I followed up, or am trying to anyway,
<a href="http://www.autohaus.com/boutique/tequipment/tequipment.html" target="_blank">http://www.autohaus.com/boutique/tequipment/tequipment.html</a>
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
02-08-2002, 06:19 AM
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Dear Greg,
What we are trying to establish is "approvals" primarily to install them in the rear seats of a 911. They are approved for the front seats, or were but have dropped off the current list or approvals I have.
I need to find a seat myself and get an approval number off it to check.
Ciao,
Adrian.
911C4
What we are trying to establish is "approvals" primarily to install them in the rear seats of a 911. They are approved for the front seats, or were but have dropped off the current list or approvals I have.
I need to find a seat myself and get an approval number off it to check.
Ciao,
Adrian.
911C4