Res Ipsa

Hi there everyone, I have decided to buy a Porsche in the next year as a hobby/fun car. I own a late model Jeep for the bad weather and I would welcome your advice on what porsche to buy with my $10,000. So I am starting my search for the “perfect” $10,000 (or less) Porsche.
The way I see it I have a number of options in terms of car choices. I could go with an older 911S (76-77), an early 911SC (78-80), a late 944 Turbo (1988-1989 maybe a 944 Turbo S), a 944S or 944S2 (89 only), a low mileage early (78-82) 928S, a mid mileage 928S or 928S2 (83-86) or a high mileage 928S4 (1987). That’s a lot of choices and as I see it each choice has its own positive and negative aspects. But I do know any way I go it’s a lot of car for the money and, as long as they are maintained, any of my choices will be immune from the ravages of depreciation.

911S 2.7 1976-1977

The 911S is fast with its 157hp and low curb weight of 2315 lbs giving 135hp/ton and the car is galvanized, I am only considering galvanized cars because I am planning to drive the car in the winter and my house doesn’t have a garage so rust will be a threat. I will not drive the car in the snow but I will drive it in the winter when the roads are clear (75% of the time). Remember, we still have the jeep for those days I need to drive to work through 20” of snow (yes, that really does happen 2 or 3 times every winter, in Buffalo ground clearance is even more important than 4WD because there are no hills here but LOTS of snow).
The 911S also has that “classic” Porsche look at an affordable price. I see a lot of 911S’ in the $7500-&10000 range with around 100,000 miles and maintenance records. Now for the drawbacks; the 2.7 is renowned for pilling crank case studs and for it’s general lack of durability, I am wondering how much of an issue that is, I will be looking for a non-A/C car because I know heat in the engine compartment is bad. Another issue is the age of the 2.7. I might have a hard time finding a clean, straight, rust free 2.7 with out looking in the south west and I am sure CA and AZ cars will have A/C which hurts (I think) the durability of the engine.

911SC 1978-1979
The 911SC is a classic, faster than the 911S with an output of 172hp and a weight of 2315 lbs for 148hp/ton. The SC has a lot of benefits, the classic looks of the 911, the reliability and durability of the 3.0 motor, the simplicity of the K-Jetronic fuel injection, and cars before 1981 are emissions exempt in Erie County.
The only problem is that most SC under $10,000 are a little rough around the edges. The NADA value for a 78’ 911SC is $13,575 so the 911SC’s in the sub-$10,000 range tend to need something.
I would like to avoid spending $10,000 on a car and then immediately being forced to put another $5,000 into the car to drive it. My goal is a daily driver Porsche for $10,000 and then about $1500/year in maintenance and repair. I know a bad Porsche can be a bottomless pit for money and I would like to avoid that (besides my wife would kill me).

928 1978-1981
O.K. I need to admit I am a little terrified by the 928 because of its high purchase price and its low second hand value. Originally I hadn’t considered any of the 928 line but when I started looking even well maintained single or two owner early 928’s are available in my price range. Frequently these 928’s are available with less than 100,000 miles on the odometer and with all service records for less than $10,000.
On the plus side even the old 928’s are fast with a weight of 3144 lbs and 220hp for 140hp/ton and the SOHC 4.5 V-8 has torque as well. The 928 has “unique” but distinctively Porsche styling, I think the 928 is a good looking car and it conjures a feeling of nostalgia for me because in the 80’s it was the Porsche used in most teen movies (risky Business, Weird science, etc.) Another big plus of the 928 is the interior space. I am 6'5" and weigh 250 lbs, I know I fit in a 911 (with out sport seats) but I can spread out in a 928 and my weight will have little effect on the car’s performance because of the torque of the V-8 and the weight of the car (it’s still lighter than my old Mustang GT).
Although the 928 has a lot on the plus side, I am still worried about the maintenance costs. Break pads, dual clutch discs, timing belts and (god forbid) the rebuild cost of an all aluminum V-8 scare me. I think the 928 would be the most expensive Porsche to maintain but if I could find an older one in good condition (new clutches, new belts, good compression, etc.) the 928 may be a great value.

928S 1982-1984
Basically the same positives and negatives of the 928 but with more power, the 4.7 puts out 234 hp and weighs 3210 lbs for 145hp/ton but, as I look at newer 928’s for the same money the condition of the car falls. From what I have seen I could still find a 928S with less than 100K miles and most or all service records in my price range.

I would also be interested in a "ero spec" 928 with the 300-310DIN HP motor. In Buffalo we do not have an emissions test so a Euro car might work here.

928S DOHC 1985-1986
Ditto for the quad cam 928, MUCHO POWER 288hp with a weight of 3288 for 175hp/ton but for less than $10K I would be looking at an example with over 125K miles and probably lacking some service records. This is starting to enter the realm of automotive Russian roulette.

928S4 1987
I have seen a few of these for less than $10,000, invariably the car is at a used car dealership named like “Performance and Specialty cars of ripoff New Jersey” or something like that. I think with these cars it is safe to assume EVERTHING needs to be done, new clutches, timing belt, i.e. the whole ball of wax. BUT with 316hp and a weight of 3288 lbs these are like the fastest Porsches I could possible afford, just think of it, that’s 192 hp/ton even a 78’ Turbo has “only” 176hp/ton. The 928S4 is a seriously fast car but I think it may be unrealistic to find one in my price range that is in good to excellent condition.

944 1987-1989
Here we have the obvious choice, for less than $10,000 there are LOTS of base 944 garage queens. Single owner, all records under 75,000 miles, new tires, clutch belts etc. This would be the most logical choice for a reliable Porsche for under 10 grand. The parts are relatively cheep (for a Porsche), the cars get great gas mileage and are (in my opinion) very attractive.
There are two drawbacks to the 944, first some Porsche aficionados do not consider the 944 a “true” Porsche because the car is an Audi design and was not built in Zuffenhausen. The second problem is go-power an 87’ has the 147hp straight four and weighs in at 2637 lbs for 111hp/ton, that means the 86’ Saab or my old 16V Scirocco has a better power to weight ratio. Even the up-gunned 1988 model (with the 158hp motor) still looks under powered at 119hp/ton when compared to similar vintage BMW’s, Datsuns, Mazda’s, Toyotas, etc.
$10K is a lot of money to pay for a car that would have its butt handed to it by a $2,000 RX-7.

944 Turbo 1986-1989
This is what I am currently leaning toward, for $10K I can find a nice low mileage (under 100K) example that has been well maintained. The Turbo is also respectably fast, the Base model has 217hp with a weight of 2760lbs for 157hp/ton not the fastest but still faster than my old Mustang. A 944 Turbo also comes with ABS and (as of 1987) air bags and an excellent HVAC system, essential for defrosting on cold New York Mornings. The car is even better looking than the standard 944 because of the poly nose job.
Occasionally I see a 944 Turbo S or 1989 944 Turbo for sale in my price range. While the 944 Turbo S is bumped up to 247hp for 178hp/ton (@#^?!&# fast!!!!!) the S group only came in one color, a silver rose metallic (O.K. I guess) and the only interior available was “studio” (actually pink gingham) cloth, I will try and find a picture for you. Trust me; it’s not a good color or material choice.
The drawbacks of the 944 Turbo are high maintenance costs and turbo lag. I know you are familiar with turbo lag and all the articles on the 944 Turbo say the car is great above 4000RPM but below that it gets killed by Hondas and other pleabian methods of transport. Like the 911 Turbo, the 944 Turbo can be a hand full on twisty roads because of the turbo lag, the turbo will tend to kick in when you least expect it. For the most part the turbo lag would be bad in the summer but good in the winter. The lag would help with traction on snow and ice when compared with a high torque/low RPM car (say a Vette or Z-28).
I am also a little scared of the maintenance costs of the turbo, how long will a turbo go without replacement, etc. Without a functioning turbo a 944 Turbo would be a real slug.

944S and 944S2 1987-1989
The Twin Cam 944s’ may be a good choice, they both have adequate power, the 944S has 188hp and weighs in at 2650 lbs for 141hp/ton while the 944S2 has 208hp with a weight of 2750 for 151hp/ton. Respectable figures all around. Both cars have the attractive 944 body while the S2 has the Turbo front end (a big plus in my book). The S series also avoid the Turbo Lag of the 944 Turbo, especially the 944S2 with its 207 ft/lb of torque at 4000 rpm from the big 3.0 four cylinder.
My concerns with the S series stem from the higher rev limits and the wear that the motor may suffer because of it. Also, the 944S is a rare car and it is hard to find in good condition with low miles. On the other hand the 944S2’s are available in pampered condition but are rare under $10K and tend to be a little more worn at the under $10K level, so a 944S2 would be in a little bit rougher shape, say 125K+ on the odo.

Thanks for you help.

sweanders

Well, I can really recommend a 944S2 since I had one of those. Same good looks as the 951, cheaper in insurance, less complicated design and fewer parts. More than enough power and nice low end grunt.

It's almost as fast as the 951 and is easier to drive fast because of the powerband. Hard to upgrade the engine for more power but uses the same chassis and almost the same brake equipment.

Having said that, try a tuned 951 once and you'll regret buying the S2.

DonW-Cape Cod

Hi and welcome to the largest Porsche Forum in the world! Looks like you have done quite a bit of homework. Considering your budget and the fact that you don't seem to have much of a styling preference, I would suggest that simplicity would be a good answer. That, IMHO rules out Turbos, 928s, and pre-78 911s (high mileage 2.7s might require costly repair)....and that leaves the NA 944s and the 78 911. My preference would be the 911 even tho it might cost a bit more. I guess I'm more of a purist in that I've always admired the classic (40 years) of unique styling. You also mention performaqnce figures, but if you don't or won't drive the car at it's limits, do the performance figures mean that much?

Good luck!

Steve Jensen

Unless you focus is speed, you left off 3556s (a B coupe in great shape should be around or just under $10k) or an excellent 912 (under $10k). Not sure what kind of price 914s get these days, but that's one more to consider.

Of the cars you listed, I'd go for a early to mid 80s 911 - but for $10k, I'd expect to have to do some work.

Res Ipsa

Thanks for all of the advice; I have not considered a 356 or 912 because of there well earned reputation for turning to iron oxide if driven in northeastern winters. My goal here is to convince my wife that a 20 year old Porsche is a better option than a New ford Focus. While the difference may be obvious to everyone here, it is lost on my wife who doesn’t see a guards red 944 as Jake Ryan’s car (16 candles reference), but as just an overpriced old car.
If I could store it over the winters my obvious choice would be a 67’ 912 (with all five gauges) its light enough for the 86hp to move it with some authority. Better yet when I have $30K+ to blow on a car I don’t need it will be a yellow 911S Targa with the Recaro sport seats. Personally I have always found the 914 to be ugly but you know the old saying, opinions are like a__ holes, everyone’s got one. I had a friend in college who loved her 914 1.7, just goes to show that there is a Porsche for everyone.
Except that Cayenne thing, go figure. You know in the early 70’s GMC was going to market a Corvette clone because no one bought trucks, weird how the times change. In fact the good doctor Ferdinand once said that, in racing, Bentley built the fastest TRUCKS on the racing circuit (somewhat paraphrased) poor Freddie must be spinning in his grave.
Anyway, I digress, the point is I need something I can drive in the winter and after working on northeastern BMW 2002’s the last thing I want is another car that “just needs a new floor pan and rockers.”
As for speed, I know the 944 is an excellent handling car, I have read the reviews, but the lack of power in the base models is a little depressing. Even my jeep will dust a 147hp 944 merging on to the freeway and, I must admit, I am not into Porsches because I enjoy driving slowly. I suppose I should try a couple of 944’s before passing judgment.
So far the only Porsches I have driven are my fathers 78’ 911 Turbo (love that boost!!); my uncles 944 Turbo (very grown up car); A friends 83 928S (big fun Teutonic Z-28) and a pair of 80’ 911SCs (most fun car to drive ever). I think if the HVAC systems weren’t so bad and the prices so high the 911SC would be a shoe-in.
Finally I am a purest and would not like to modify my purchase in any way, in fact I am one of those freaks who likes the original OEM stereo’s in cars to give a correct “period” feel, for example if I bought a 78’ 911SC the first thing I would start looking for is a stock Blaupunkt twin shaft cassette player to replace whatever Sony CD/DVD/VHS/CD-ROM entertainment system the previous owner had installed.

rfuerst

I have a 1987-944S that I am selling,has 143,000 miles,many maint. items have been replaced,alpine white with black interior,looks and runs good for $4750.00 if interested.

P-on

I have a '89 944S2 and can't say enough about it. Four years, 20K miles and all I had to replace was belts, shocks, cv joints, cam chain tensioner. 79K on the clock and no problems. A ball to drive. Yes, you need to get past the low end drag, but it becomes real happy at 4 to 6K rpm's. I've had it to 125mph at Watkins Glen (stock suspension) and it drives solid. I also have an '82SC. There's flavor to an SC to be sure, but for all around use the S2 is the clear winner with air bags, ABS, climate...etc. The SC can get very tiring as a daily driver in traffic, especially when you need heat, defrost..etc. The climate system just sucks ***.

HarryD

Hi,

Sounds like you are having fun deciding what you want.

If it was me, I would look as the 2.7 L 911's. While they seem to be the "red haired step child", the problems with these cars are well documented and can be addressed. If you find one that has been sortd out (make sure you have good, verifiable documantation for the work), the "stigma" will work in your favor to get a good price.

Whatever you decide, shop around. Take your time to find a good example of your car. Get a PPI by a good shop and enjoy!

HarryD

oops

pig4bill

Grassroots Motorsports magazine had a cover story on this subject, "Porsches for $10,000". I think it was last year. You might be able to get a back issue from them.

Harry has a good idea. Oftentimes the least desirable car makes the best bargain, as long as you know why it's undesirable and can live with the shortcomings. I've often considered a salvage title, because I'm not looking for a concours winner and as long as I buy it at the right price I'll be able to get good use out of it and not lose much on the resale. Conversely, I think a 928 on a tight budget is a bad idea. Many parts are horrendously expensive, as in over $1000. Yes there are parts on 944's and 911's that are expensive too, but the number of expensive parts on a 928 is something else.

Rich Sandor

Pick the car you love most, the one with your favorite body style, and the one you can see yourself keeping forever.

Then find one that is as close to perfect as you can possibly find. (It's easier than trying to fix **** AFTER you buy it...)

And make sure you set aside $1000 a year, as incidentals for your car.

Ruairidh

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by Res Ipsa:
<strong> In fact the good doctor Ferdinand once said that, in racing, Bentley built the fastest TRUCKS on the racing circuit (somewhat paraphrased) poor Freddie must be spinning in his grave.
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">I think this is usually attributed to Ettore Bugatti - which makes sense from a timing perspective.

Good thread and good thinking. All good cars but a 911 (or 912) is something pretty special IMHO.

jim912928

Best thing is to go out and drive all the ones you'd consider..then buy the one that tugs at the fun factor the most. I have both a 928s and a 911sc. Neither drains my wallet on maintenance but i bought cars with all service records and that were well maintained all their lives. Likewise, i keep up the routine maintenance myself. The 928 i pretty much use for my daily driver 9 mos out of the year...it has never let me down and draws a crowd wherever i park it. It's the ultimate cruiser...good weight, quick, a bat-out-of-hell when you hit the gas at say around 70!..and a very comfortable ride. The 911 is more of a racer, alittle rougher ride, quicker steering, quicker below 60. Very different cars. BEST ADVICE IS GO DRIVE AND PICK THE ONE YOU WANT!!!! Get one that has a good history, and it will be good to you.

Happy hunting!

Res Ipsa

Sorry, you are right, it was Ettore Bugatti.

amfp

IMO, if $10K, I would go with the 944S. It is easier to repair for a DYI, less maintaince, more parts available, and great way to step up to 911 when you are ready.

Good luck, and don't rush into a quick decision on a specific car, as there are many good ones around.