Installing Data Acq. System
03-01-2016, 06:56 PM
#121
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This is done as a zero based sensor.
The third step is to click ok.
The calibration procedure is to put the throttle pedal to the floor, click get high position, let the throttle return to it's closed position and click get low value, then click ok.
The numbers you enter will be 0 for the low and 100 for the high (they are the percent).
The third step is to click ok.
The calibration procedure is to put the throttle pedal to the floor, click get high position, let the throttle return to it's closed position and click get low value, then click ok.
The numbers you enter will be 0 for the low and 100 for the high (they are the percent).
It's not possible to select an alternate value for the second step, "0" because it will know that the throttle is "at rest."
Yes, the translation sucks but the function and capability works fine and your problem will be fixed.
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03-01-2016, 07:16 PM
#122
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks guys.
Each time I have tried this, I have clicked OK and then transmitted the calibration to the EVO4.
I had, and still have, no idea what they mean by "corresponding measure." Without any documentation, I am just left to guess or ask folks like you.
Earlier posts in this thread led me to believe that the AIM SW has a simple way of "ringing in" a throttle pot, whether a simple resistance range (like what I assume is available from the pots AIM sells for this purpose) or the alternative case that applies to me (with a 0 to 5 volt signal that corresponds linearly to throttle position). This of course is not true. So in my case I have to:
1. Select zero based pot in the configuration process, even though I am dealing with a voltage signal.
2. Try to decipher the calibration procedure and enter a value or values that aren't really clear. That calibration window came up with "151" all by itself. When I see 151, I think about one of my high school buddies that drank too much 151 and passed out.
There are many things that could be better with these products.
Not sure what you mean about the ECU Matt. I use a Haltech pot and the throttle set up has a hard mechanical stop at 100%. Zero throttle applied is the location of the butterfly at idle (where of course it is partially open so some air can get in).
I am still confused by the numbers in the AIM calibration windows at low and high values (1204 and 4106). AIM provides no information on what these numbers mean and from where they are derived. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they could be in mV and in that case do not match what I see with the live "online" movement of the throttle pot through its range. Clear as mud.
Each time I have tried this, I have clicked OK and then transmitted the calibration to the EVO4.
I had, and still have, no idea what they mean by "corresponding measure." Without any documentation, I am just left to guess or ask folks like you.
Earlier posts in this thread led me to believe that the AIM SW has a simple way of "ringing in" a throttle pot, whether a simple resistance range (like what I assume is available from the pots AIM sells for this purpose) or the alternative case that applies to me (with a 0 to 5 volt signal that corresponds linearly to throttle position). This of course is not true. So in my case I have to:
1. Select zero based pot in the configuration process, even though I am dealing with a voltage signal.
2. Try to decipher the calibration procedure and enter a value or values that aren't really clear. That calibration window came up with "151" all by itself. When I see 151, I think about one of my high school buddies that drank too much 151 and passed out.
There are many things that could be better with these products.
Not sure what you mean about the ECU Matt. I use a Haltech pot and the throttle set up has a hard mechanical stop at 100%. Zero throttle applied is the location of the butterfly at idle (where of course it is partially open so some air can get in).
I am still confused by the numbers in the AIM calibration windows at low and high values (1204 and 4106). AIM provides no information on what these numbers mean and from where they are derived. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they could be in mV and in that case do not match what I see with the live "online" movement of the throttle pot through its range. Clear as mud.
03-01-2016, 10:42 PM
#123
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Earlier posts in this thread led me to believe that the AIM SW has a simple way of "ringing in" a throttle pot, whether a simple resistance range (like what I assume is available from the pots AIM sells for this purpose) or the alternative case that applies to me (with a 0 to 5 volt signal that corresponds linearly to throttle position). This of course is not true. So in my case I have to:
1. Select zero based pot in the configuration process, even though I am dealing with a voltage signal.
2. Try to decipher the calibration procedure and enter a value or values that aren't really clear. That calibration window came up with "151" all by itself. When I see 151, I think about one of my high school buddies that drank too much 151 and passed out.
There are many things that could be better with these products.
Not sure what you mean about the ECU Matt. I use a Haltech pot and the throttle set up has a hard mechanical stop at 100%. Zero throttle applied is the location of the butterfly at idle (where of course it is partially open so some air can get in).
I am still confused by the numbers in the AIM calibration windows at low and high values (1204 and 4106). AIM provides no information on what these numbers mean and from where they are derived. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they could be in mV and in that case do not match what I see with the live "online" movement of the throttle pot through its range. Clear as mud.
1. Select zero based pot in the configuration process, even though I am dealing with a voltage signal.
2. Try to decipher the calibration procedure and enter a value or values that aren't really clear. That calibration window came up with "151" all by itself. When I see 151, I think about one of my high school buddies that drank too much 151 and passed out.
There are many things that could be better with these products.
Not sure what you mean about the ECU Matt. I use a Haltech pot and the throttle set up has a hard mechanical stop at 100%. Zero throttle applied is the location of the butterfly at idle (where of course it is partially open so some air can get in).
I am still confused by the numbers in the AIM calibration windows at low and high values (1204 and 4106). AIM provides no information on what these numbers mean and from where they are derived. I am a little disturbed by the fact that they could be in mV and in that case do not match what I see with the live "online" movement of the throttle pot through its range. Clear as mud.
As to the ECU part, your sensor is reading the max limit at full throttle. Is this really happening right at 100% or slightly before? I set them so full throttle is slightly less than 5000 mV so that there is room for over travel and adjustment. You have room on the lower end to do that. Not a big deal, but a little detail.
I've never actually paid attention to what the numbers are, but it looks like they might be the A/D bits. 4106 is too big by a couple, so it's not perfect, but it makes sense with the range you are seeing. What the numbers are doesn't really matter for what you are doing.
Does you ECU have any logging or readout? Can you check that the Haltech isn't seeing any weird values? Specifically, what wire colors did you connect to what wires on the throttle position sensor? Also, from what you said, I'm assuming it is a voltage sensor. Is that correct? If it's a resistance sensor, you need a pull up resistor or it will give you weird results like you are seeing.
03-01-2016, 10:51 PM
#124
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I think he just needs to enter the max percentage field, so replacing the 151 with 100 and then "OK"will fix it.
03-10-2016, 02:12 PM
#125
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks guys.
Matt:
I watched that AIM video and it is excellent. I think the process they describe for calibrating a steering pot is pretty clear. I think the video can be improved by showing how to set up a basic channel for the pot first and letting people know that selecting a mid-zero-based pot will then allow them to calibrate. Then show them the calibration procedure. If they also recommend a sampling rate, that would be great and cover the basics for steering.
And I think a similar video showing how to set up a TPS would be a great addition. That video could show both a case like mine (with an existing 0 to +5 VDC input) and what is likely a more typical case with a zero-based AIM or other pot.
I think the latter is more toward the center of the fruit, meaning that I'd guess a vast majority of folks without a CAN or OBD set up doing self install would want to have a TPS signal. I think fewer folks would want to have a steering signal. If both of these videos existed, a lot of questions and confusion would be cleared up. I think this would also be beneficial to folks selling and supporting these products. Less time on answering the same questions over and over again.
Matt:
I watched that AIM video and it is excellent. I think the process they describe for calibrating a steering pot is pretty clear. I think the video can be improved by showing how to set up a basic channel for the pot first and letting people know that selecting a mid-zero-based pot will then allow them to calibrate. Then show them the calibration procedure. If they also recommend a sampling rate, that would be great and cover the basics for steering.
And I think a similar video showing how to set up a TPS would be a great addition. That video could show both a case like mine (with an existing 0 to +5 VDC input) and what is likely a more typical case with a zero-based AIM or other pot.
I think the latter is more toward the center of the fruit, meaning that I'd guess a vast majority of folks without a CAN or OBD set up doing self install would want to have a TPS signal. I think fewer folks would want to have a steering signal. If both of these videos existed, a lot of questions and confusion would be cleared up. I think this would also be beneficial to folks selling and supporting these products. Less time on answering the same questions over and over again.
03-10-2016, 02:24 PM
#126
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Furthermore....
I changed the value that Peter suggested (thanks Peter). The steering video makes it more clear why I needed to change this from the random number that appeared (151) to 100. Clearly now, these units are in percent. When I watch the TPS signal on the display, I now see 0 to 100. I presume that is what will be logged and show up in the SmartyCam video frames when I get and install a SC.
But I am still confused about the difference between the AIM online readings for my TPS and what I see when I calibrate.
When online, I can sweep the TPS through its range and see 1466 mV at the low end and 5000 mV at the high end. I presume this means that AIM is seeing these values at the extremes, and yes, the values change as I sweep the pot.
But when I am in the calibration window, the low end raw data number is ~1201 and the high end is ~4115. No units are given, but I assume these are mV. I completed the calibration process as I stated above, but the fact that these values do not match has me concerned.
See photos. Perhaps this is a bug or there is something I don't understand about what is going on with the calibration procedure. I feel it is important to understand this. If you guys do not know why this happens, I will contact Roger Cadell.
Throttle position, brake on/off and GPS speed are data that I consider at the center of the fruit, and I encourage AIM to ensure that folks have what they need to set up these channels.
I changed the value that Peter suggested (thanks Peter). The steering video makes it more clear why I needed to change this from the random number that appeared (151) to 100. Clearly now, these units are in percent. When I watch the TPS signal on the display, I now see 0 to 100. I presume that is what will be logged and show up in the SmartyCam video frames when I get and install a SC.
But I am still confused about the difference between the AIM online readings for my TPS and what I see when I calibrate.
When online, I can sweep the TPS through its range and see 1466 mV at the low end and 5000 mV at the high end. I presume this means that AIM is seeing these values at the extremes, and yes, the values change as I sweep the pot.
But when I am in the calibration window, the low end raw data number is ~1201 and the high end is ~4115. No units are given, but I assume these are mV. I completed the calibration process as I stated above, but the fact that these values do not match has me concerned.
See photos. Perhaps this is a bug or there is something I don't understand about what is going on with the calibration procedure. I feel it is important to understand this. If you guys do not know why this happens, I will contact Roger Cadell.
Throttle position, brake on/off and GPS speed are data that I consider at the center of the fruit, and I encourage AIM to ensure that folks have what they need to set up these channels.
03-10-2016, 03:50 PM
#127
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Mike, it appears as though your calibration procedure was done correctly, if you are reading ~0-~100%.
You can all Roger and while he may have an answer, this is not a logged bug or anomaly (AFAIK) PRECISELY because it doesn't affect the quality of your desired data, assuming the calibration is good.
These variances that you see in the calibration window can be due to deflection at the pedal or linkage such that the travel at the measuring pot is affected. This is common.
If you think this is bad/tough, you should see others...
You can all Roger and while he may have an answer, this is not a logged bug or anomaly (AFAIK) PRECISELY because it doesn't affect the quality of your desired data, assuming the calibration is good.
These variances that you see in the calibration window can be due to deflection at the pedal or linkage such that the travel at the measuring pot is affected. This is common.
If you think this is bad/tough, you should see others...
03-10-2016, 04:40 PM
#128
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Thanks Peter. I think it will work, and I think I will be able to trust the logged data.
But I don't believe that this is due to linkage or anything else. It is 100% repeatable.
I think my question/concern would be answered if AIM would disclose what the units are in the "current data, raw values" boxes in the calibration window. If they are in mV, I am sure there is an explanation. If they are in some other units, then again, I think it should be explainable.
As I stated earlier, I think things like throttle position, brake on/off, GPS speed and of course RPM are central to anyone use of a family of products like this. Sure, there are a bunch of of other user-specific details, but I think these are at the core for 99.99% of users. On this TPS issue, at least two highly experienced experts (you and Matt) have not been able to explain this, and another I spoke with goes about TPS set up with a 0-5 VDC as a custom sensor rather than a zero based pot.
I think that I will contact AIM and get this clarified, and then put the answer in this thread.
The easier it is to install and use, the broader the potential audience, which is good for all of us. And I am sure you dealers would rather help folks with more important questions-- better margins. Most of the folks I race with have older cars, and many have EFI ECU's that do not have CAN. Others use carbs. If there is a way to make these products even easier to set up, I see no downside... only upside for more rapid adoption.
For the core metrics, I'd like to see this be as easy to set up as a Hot Lap timer. I think all that is needed is some simple documentation. I know AIM is working on that, but it isn't clear how they are prioritizing.
In any case, I think my question is simple and I will ping AIM for an answer. If/when I get one i will add to this thread.
But I don't believe that this is due to linkage or anything else. It is 100% repeatable.
I think my question/concern would be answered if AIM would disclose what the units are in the "current data, raw values" boxes in the calibration window. If they are in mV, I am sure there is an explanation. If they are in some other units, then again, I think it should be explainable.
As I stated earlier, I think things like throttle position, brake on/off, GPS speed and of course RPM are central to anyone use of a family of products like this. Sure, there are a bunch of of other user-specific details, but I think these are at the core for 99.99% of users. On this TPS issue, at least two highly experienced experts (you and Matt) have not been able to explain this, and another I spoke with goes about TPS set up with a 0-5 VDC as a custom sensor rather than a zero based pot.
I think that I will contact AIM and get this clarified, and then put the answer in this thread.
The easier it is to install and use, the broader the potential audience, which is good for all of us. And I am sure you dealers would rather help folks with more important questions-- better margins. Most of the folks I race with have older cars, and many have EFI ECU's that do not have CAN. Others use carbs. If there is a way to make these products even easier to set up, I see no downside... only upside for more rapid adoption.
For the core metrics, I'd like to see this be as easy to set up as a Hot Lap timer. I think all that is needed is some simple documentation. I know AIM is working on that, but it isn't clear how they are prioritizing.
In any case, I think my question is simple and I will ping AIM for an answer. If/when I get one i will add to this thread.
03-10-2016, 04:56 PM
#129
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Thanks Peter. I think it will work, and I think I will be able to trust the logged data.
But I don't believe that this is due to linkage or anything else. It is 100% repeatable.
I think my question/concern would be answered if AIM would disclose what the units are in the "current data, raw values" boxes in the calibration window. If they are in mV, I am sure there is an explanation. If they are in some other units, then again, I think it should be explainable.
As I stated earlier, I think things like throttle position, brake on/off, GPS speed and of course RPM are central to anyone use of a family of products like this. Sure, there are a bunch of of other user-specific details, but I think these are at the core for 99.99% of users. On this TPS issue, at least two highly experienced experts (you and Matt) have not been able to explain this, and another I spoke with goes about TPS set up with a 0-5 VDC as a custom sensor rather than a zero based pot.
I think that I will contact AIM and get this clarified, and then put the answer in this thread.
For the core metrics, I'd like to see this be as easy to set up as a Hot Lap timer. I think all that is needed is some simple documentation. I know AIM is working on that, but it isn't clear how they are prioritizing.
In any case, I think my question is simple and I will ping AIM for an answer. If/when I get one i will add to this thread.
But I don't believe that this is due to linkage or anything else. It is 100% repeatable.
I think my question/concern would be answered if AIM would disclose what the units are in the "current data, raw values" boxes in the calibration window. If they are in mV, I am sure there is an explanation. If they are in some other units, then again, I think it should be explainable.
As I stated earlier, I think things like throttle position, brake on/off, GPS speed and of course RPM are central to anyone use of a family of products like this. Sure, there are a bunch of of other user-specific details, but I think these are at the core for 99.99% of users. On this TPS issue, at least two highly experienced experts (you and Matt) have not been able to explain this, and another I spoke with goes about TPS set up with a 0-5 VDC as a custom sensor rather than a zero based pot.
I think that I will contact AIM and get this clarified, and then put the answer in this thread.
For the core metrics, I'd like to see this be as easy to set up as a Hot Lap timer. I think all that is needed is some simple documentation. I know AIM is working on that, but it isn't clear how they are prioritizing.
In any case, I think my question is simple and I will ping AIM for an answer. If/when I get one i will add to this thread.
The difference is that when the result after calibration is 100% repeatable, which to me means identical, consistent data is provided every time, I am not digging deeper to divine the thought process of the Italians.
Having been a Ferrari and Alfa mechanic in my former life, you can be SURE that I have had enough of THAT!
03-10-2016, 11:20 PM
#130
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I'm with Peter on this. Calibration of TPS (steering, shocks, and other sensors) is not normally a problem. In the end, as long as everything works, those values are not really important.
Are you getting consistent results now?
Are you getting consistent results now?
06-11-2016, 04:34 PM
#131
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Some follow up:
GPS Antenna: I discovered that in my area and with the tracks I visit, many/most folks mount their GPS antenna's inside the car. Either under the rear window or the windshield.
I had decided to move forward with my install before I canvassed, so my antenna is mounted on the roof. I drilled a ~5/32" hole for the wire, and cut off the large RF connector. I re-terminated the antenna wire inside the car with a ~$11 replacement connector sourced from AIM. No fancy crimper was needed. Just a plain crimper and some solder.
Oil Pressure: I just added the inexpensive Bosch sender which AIM recommends. And I used their documentation to set it up in the software. So now I have two senders-- one that drives the stock gauge and the other is displayable on the GDASh and is logged by the EVO4. Numbers agree.
Oil Temperature: I added an inexpensive AIM sensor to the breather cover. Right next to the sensor my Haltech EFI system uses. The numbers displayed and logged match my stock sender.
AFR: I use the analog output of my AEM wideband gauge and the values they provide in documentation are used in the AIM RS custom sensor table. Easy peasy.
GPS Antenna: I discovered that in my area and with the tracks I visit, many/most folks mount their GPS antenna's inside the car. Either under the rear window or the windshield.
I had decided to move forward with my install before I canvassed, so my antenna is mounted on the roof. I drilled a ~5/32" hole for the wire, and cut off the large RF connector. I re-terminated the antenna wire inside the car with a ~$11 replacement connector sourced from AIM. No fancy crimper was needed. Just a plain crimper and some solder.
Oil Pressure: I just added the inexpensive Bosch sender which AIM recommends. And I used their documentation to set it up in the software. So now I have two senders-- one that drives the stock gauge and the other is displayable on the GDASh and is logged by the EVO4. Numbers agree.
Oil Temperature: I added an inexpensive AIM sensor to the breather cover. Right next to the sensor my Haltech EFI system uses. The numbers displayed and logged match my stock sender.
AFR: I use the analog output of my AEM wideband gauge and the values they provide in documentation are used in the AIM RS custom sensor table. Easy peasy.
06-11-2016, 04:41 PM
#132
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Brake on/off: here I wanted to use my existing brake light circuit (0 VDC brakes off, +12 VDC brakes on). For my application, brake pressure is absolutely useless. AIM documentation was very poor to help with this relatively simple set up. I got some good suggestions from folks in this thread and after some fiddling I have gotten it to work.
I think AIM would be well-served to create a simple document and/or video on this. For most applications that don't have CAN or OBD access to braking information, the brake light circuit is an easy place to get a meaningful signal. And I think for most applications, brake on/off is very powerful.
I am sure that pro coaches and data jockies like to see and coach with brake pressure, but I think the lap time benefits are fruits high, high up in the tree for good or better amateur drivers in most cars. Sure, I have instructed/coached folks on braking subtleties, but quantification has never been an issue. For me its more about timing and feel. So to me, until we are talking about tenths, brake pressure is TMI.
I think AIM would be well-served to create a simple document and/or video on this. For most applications that don't have CAN or OBD access to braking information, the brake light circuit is an easy place to get a meaningful signal. And I think for most applications, brake on/off is very powerful.
I am sure that pro coaches and data jockies like to see and coach with brake pressure, but I think the lap time benefits are fruits high, high up in the tree for good or better amateur drivers in most cars. Sure, I have instructed/coached folks on braking subtleties, but quantification has never been an issue. For me its more about timing and feel. So to me, until we are talking about tenths, brake pressure is TMI.
06-11-2016, 04:46 PM
#133
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Throttle position:
Here I just tapped into my EFI TPS circuit. The Haltech system uses what I think is a simple 10k ohm pot, and it can drive both Haltech and AIM just fine.
Again, setting up/calibrating was challenging due to poor documentation and UI in the AIM products. again with some help here and fiddling, I have gotten it set up properly and its logged and displayed fine. Again, I suggest a throttle-specific doc and/or video. I can envision one that would cover what I did with my pot, as well as a more traditional install with an AIM pot product, like a string pot. Showing the Race Studio UI page(s) and what to enter in which input box would be helpful.
Here I just tapped into my EFI TPS circuit. The Haltech system uses what I think is a simple 10k ohm pot, and it can drive both Haltech and AIM just fine.
Again, setting up/calibrating was challenging due to poor documentation and UI in the AIM products. again with some help here and fiddling, I have gotten it set up properly and its logged and displayed fine. Again, I suggest a throttle-specific doc and/or video. I can envision one that would cover what I did with my pot, as well as a more traditional install with an AIM pot product, like a string pot. Showing the Race Studio UI page(s) and what to enter in which input box would be helpful.
06-11-2016, 04:51 PM
#134
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
GDASH:
I set up some simple alarms and display pages. I have not yet gotten used to life without a tach. I have a lot of area under the curve with tachometers, so it will take a while to drive with essentially shift lights only. The GDASH standard tach display is a bar graph-- not sure I will ever be able to get use to that.
I had not realized that the EVO4 has an output line... +12 VDC on or off with settable parameter. So I will experiment with twin shift lights mounted next to the dash with come on at an RPM value I designate in the RS software. These will augment the GDASh programmable shift lights. We'll see if they help. Of course I have the option of having these go off before or after the GDASH shift lights as well.
I set up some simple alarms and display pages. I have not yet gotten used to life without a tach. I have a lot of area under the curve with tachometers, so it will take a while to drive with essentially shift lights only. The GDASH standard tach display is a bar graph-- not sure I will ever be able to get use to that.
I had not realized that the EVO4 has an output line... +12 VDC on or off with settable parameter. So I will experiment with twin shift lights mounted next to the dash with come on at an RPM value I designate in the RS software. These will augment the GDASh programmable shift lights. We'll see if they help. Of course I have the option of having these go off before or after the GDASH shift lights as well.
06-11-2016, 04:53 PM
#135
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
Oh and gear calc.
I just tried the AIM procedure using some of the suggestions offered by folks in this thread. Drove on the freeway a few times and... eventually some magic occurred.
I just tried the AIM procedure using some of the suggestions offered by folks in this thread. Drove on the freeway a few times and... eventually some magic occurred.