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Old 11-27-2010, 09:58 AM
  #16  
TOGWT
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The look of Pinnacle Souveran is hard to beat, by whatever priced wax (and I've been fortunate enough to try most of them in my time)

[EDIT 11.28.10 ] P21S 100% Carnauba Wax may also suprise you compared to 'expensive' waxes

Last edited by TOGWT; 11-28-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 11-27-2010, 10:32 AM
  #17  
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The Zymols with free lifetime refills, how does that work? There must be a stipulation, no? Otherwise, that works perfect for a professional or dealer, buy one jar, refill it every other month or more frequent...
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Old 11-27-2010, 01:19 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by ClintonM3 View Post
The Zymols with free lifetime refills, how does that work? There must be a stipulation, no? Otherwise, that works perfect for a professional or dealer, buy one jar, refill it every other month or more frequent...
They know a 22oz container should take a few years to send back. Ours took about 6 years and we are a professional detailing studio. If you're sending it in monthly, I'm not sure if it's honored. As for professionals, technically it's not honored to them unless they're licensed detailers of zymol.
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Old 11-27-2010, 11:11 PM
  #19  
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I have been using Zymol Carbon for the past few years and may need to give the Pinnacle a try in the spring. I just threw a quick coat of Zymol on this morning as I am getting ready to put the car away for the winter in the next week or so. I've found it easy to apply and remove with decent results. But. it osunds like the Pinnacle is even better.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:46 AM
  #20  
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So... is the commentary used by Zymol and others in their marketing literature regarding "specailly forumalted for use with German paint" or "developed in conjunction with Porsche" merely hyperbole?
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:32 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by cab&coupe View Post
So... is the commentary used by Zymol and others in their marketing literature regarding "specailly forumalted for use with German paint" or "developed in conjunction with Porsche" merely hyperbole?
Special Waxes (Marque specific)

An organic wax, unlike a polymer, has no chemical interaction with paint; it forms a thin hard ‘shell’ as opposed to a polymer, which forms a molecular bond. A wax when it’s correctly applied as a thin translucent layer, this renewable barrier is probably less than 0.1 µ which is a barely visible film.

Regardless of its original colour of the wax, any product applied on top of the clear coat needs to be transparent otherwise both the paint colour and its depth of shine will be muted, if you can see its colour on the paint surface it’s applied too thickly

The claim that certain waxes are formulated and / or manufactured for specific paint types, paint colours or made specifically for a certain vehicle marquee or that they are matched to particular characteristics of individual paint systems has absolutely no factual chemical basis, I think it is merely marketing hype.
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Old 11-28-2010, 09:12 AM
  #22  
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http://www.zymol.com/images/products...glasurtech.jpg

It's developed with PCA, not Porsche. Not sure how much merit that holds. But as Jon has stated, marque waxes are just that...marque. There's nothing wrong with them, I just haven't been given a good explanation as to how the paint chemistry of a particular brand needs a specific wax????? For example, porsche uses glasurit as the paint and years ago, ferrari used glasurit also. So would the ferarri owner buy zymol glasur for $100, and not Zymol Ital, which at one point was selling for $300+???? Not sure, maybe that's why Ital is now also $100.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:02 PM
  #23  
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Jon, thanks for your reply, it's easy to see how businesses have been created through developing "product differentiation" and aggressive marketing.

Glasur is what I bought for my `06 black 997 - my buddy uses the carbon (at half the cost) for his arena red boxster. We used both on his car with no discernible difference.

I hate it when there is no truth in advertising.
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Old 11-28-2010, 12:56 PM
  #24  
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Truth is that waxes play a very small role in the overall big picture of paint appearance. Proper polishing and preparation is far more important. Assuming you have achieved polishing perfect you can then notice the small differences between various waxes and sealants. Whenever I and other friends have tried various waxes we always test on a properly prepped paint and we divide the hood into sections so there really isn't any other variables.

After my experiences with Zymol I realized that waxes are alot like cosmetics. Marketing and not the product itself can play a large role in how much they cost.
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Old 11-29-2010, 11:50 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
Truth is that waxes play a very small role in the overall big picture of paint appearance. Proper polishing and preparation is far more important. Assuming you have achieved polishing perfect you can then notice the small differences between various waxes and sealants. Whenever I and other friends have tried various waxes we always test on a properly prepped paint and we divide the hood into sections so there really isn't any other variables.

After my experiences with Zymol I realized that waxes are alot like cosmetics. Marketing and not the product itself can play a large role in how much they cost.
You cannot always judge a wax's performance from when it was just applied. Longevity and overall "look" after weeks and months play a role as well. Initially, only a trained eye can tell you the difference. But as time goes, you'll see the difference among waxes.
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Old 11-29-2010, 01:26 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by MoeMistry View Post
You cannot always judge a wax's performance from when it was just applied. Longevity and overall "look" after weeks and months play a role as well. Initially, only a trained eye can tell you the difference. But as time goes, you'll see the difference among waxes.
You are right that the wax will change appearance after 24 hours and in most instances waxes look better after bonding to the paint. I used P21S on my weekend car before buying Pinnacle and I do prefer the look of Pinnacle.

As far as longevity I haven't used Pinnacle on my daily driver so I can't really comment on it. I use P21S on my daily driver and it works well and lasts about 45 - 60 days depending on the time of the year. Appearance stays about the same for 45 days as well. I'm on the fence if I will stick with P21S or switch to a polymer instead since protection is more important than appearance on my DD.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:04 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Marine Blue View Post
... since protection is more important than appearance on my DD.
Try a nanothechnology coating (G|Techniqu, Aquartz, Nanolex, etc) they exibit better durability than either a wax or a polymer and also have (limited) scratch resistance
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Old 11-30-2010, 10:40 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cab&coupe View Post
Jon, thanks for your reply, it's easy to see how businesses have been created through developing "product differentiation" and aggressive marketing.

Glasur is what I bought for my `06 black 997 - my buddy uses the carbon (at half the cost) for his arena red boxster. We used both on his car with no discernible difference.

I hate it when there is no truth in advertising.
Commercialism brings with it concerns of honesty and true representation. In other words, it’s difficult to know what is true when someone is motivated by income, i.e. directly targeted at product sales, more so than an unbiased opinion.
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Old 11-30-2010, 01:55 PM
  #29  
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Do you guys think that the prestige and rarity of a product can have influence in the judging of a concours? Afterall, it is the sizzle that sell the steak.

2 equally rare ... say Bugatti vintage race cars, both contenders, detailed to perfection. But one detailed in Zymol Royale or Vintage glaze. The other with just your "garden variety" P21s, or Pinnacle, etc....
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:02 PM
  #30  
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IME "durability" of sealants/waxes is likely to vary some with the operating environment so testing is the only real means to determine what works best for your particular application.

BTW, we all know that $3500 wax looks better than $35 wax...
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