mattvandyk

LOL, I saw your response to my previous, so I went to go look, and just saw exactly this, and I screenshotted it to specifically ask you about that 11kW thing! You're several steps ahead of me. HA! Thanks! So, the gist is, if I want to use the supplied equipment, I can by using a 50-amp circuit feeding a 14-50 industrial-grade NEMA (Hubble) socket, and that will get me 9.6 kW (which, honestly, is probably fine since this will be mostly an overnight situation). But, if I want 11kW, I need a 60-amp 240v circuit feeding an appropriate (and by that, I mean, the list you provided above) hardwired EVSE.

That makes sense. Only real question now is whether I care enough to go the hardwired route and get a new EVSE or if I just have an electrician come out and set it up fir the EVSE they gave me.

Thanks!

daveo4porsche

do the following - if you can

• have the electrician install a new breaker in your main panel - 50-100 amp - biggest your panel can handle
• install a sub-panel in the garage for this new beefy circuit
• in the subpanel install a 50 amp breaker to feed your new Hubble NEMA 14-50/6-50 outlet
• charge at 9.6 kW and be happy (3 hours to full battery at 9.6 kW charge rate)

now that you have a subpanel this will help you in the following ways:

• upgrading your EVSE is now trivial - easy to add a "new" circuit for a beefier EVSE if you want in the future
• no permit required - since you're still using hte same 'capacity'
• you can add multipe EV chargers and have them "share/split-load" for the capacity of the subpanel
  • this allows charing a Hybrid and a 718 EV at the same time with two EVSE's configured to "share" the load (Enphase and Tesla can do this)

basically get max capacity sub panel even though today you'll only use 50 amp - it gives you maneuvering room for the future and easy/simple/faster changing of your EV setup…and avoids another round of permits.

you can also "prepare" for the future even with out the subpanel approach - by installing "better" wire for your 50 amp circuit - if building code requires 8 gauge wire for 50 amp circuit - get 6 or 4 gauge wire (since that's the difficult part to upgrade/replace). When you want to get a hardwired 60 amp EVSE - you'll already have the correct wire - and you simple swap the breaker and the NEMA outlet which is simple, fast, easy (cheaper) than pulling new wire. Breakers and their rating "protect" the wire - not the device, so if you have the correct wire installed you can always upgrade the breaker and it's trivial to swap a NEMA outlet for a hardwired junction box…

so eitehr get a sub-panel and be ready for the future (100 amp if you can handle it)
or at least upgrade the wire gauge so you can upgrade the breaker/eVSE in the future.

9.6 kW and 40 amps is more than enough for a hybird w/25 kWh battery - but 11 kW or more for charging your future EV with 105 kWh battery will be appreicated ;-)

have the electrician come out only once, get a bit more than you need and in 3 yeras when you want a dual 11 kW EVSE setup - it will be trivial.

mattvandyk

LOL at the casual "and a 718 EV".

whiz944

For overnight charging, it doesn't matter much either way. You'll wake up in the morning with a "full tank". For long-term reliability, a hardwired EVSE is the way to go. I'd suggest having your electrician run wiring adequate for a 60 amp circuit - even if he only installs a 50 amp breaker and a 14-50 receptacle on the ends for the moment. But note that nowadays the National Electrical Code (NEC) requires a GFCI breaker when a receptacle is used. They are fairly expensive - as is the Hubble receptacle. So that is like $200-$300 of extra parts that could be put towards a hardwired 60 amp-capable EVSE instead.

daveo4porsche

this is 100% excellent advise

70 amp breaker + $600 Charge Point Flex EVSE and you're good to go with 12 kW max charge rate (50 amp charge rate on a 70 amp breaker) - what you save on the Hubble socket + GFI pays for 1/2 the Chargeppoitn flex - the electrician cost is about the same for 70 amp breaker as it is for a 50 amp breaker ;-)

• Tesla Universal Wall Charger on a 60 amp breaker - $650 - adjustable from 15-60 amp breaker - max power 11 kW
• ChargePoint Flex on a 70 amp breaker - $650 - - adjustable from 15-70 amp breaker - max power 12 kW
• Porsche Wall Charger Connect - $1500 - adjustable from 15-100 amp breaker - max power 19.2 kW
• Wallbox Plus - - adjustable from 15-60 amp breaker - max power 11 kW
• Enphase - range of EVSE models to match particular breaker sizes - each on "matches" a breaker size - but they have a "range" from 20-80 amp breakers models - max power 19.2 kW

daveo4porsche

fine have it your way … 105 kWh battery - you'll want 11 kw or 19.2 kW EVSE…

https://rennlist.com/forums/taycan/1...ion-stats.html
https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/t...n-turbo-gt-wp/

mattvandyk

hammina. Now, to have you make my pitch for me to my wife!

rodsky

Ok - gotcha. For sure they seem a little clueless in this regard. For a car manufacturer that pays such amazing attention to detail within their vehicles - like My Cayenne has a wireless fast charger for your phone that cools the phone so it doesnt over heat - this is surprising on their "amateur" EVSE approach.

mattvandyk

Okay, so gist is, if I want to future proof this as much as possible, I get the highest amperage breaker I can get (ideally 100 amps if supported, but if not, as close to that as I can get) hardwired to feed any of those EVSEs, and then install whichever EVSE I like the best, and then just forget about it, and there will be some not-insignificant cost savings going this route since I'll be avoiding a Hubble outlet, GFI, etc.

If so, I'll just do that. I'll send my electrician the Porsche Wall Charger connect spec sheet and install guide and tell him I want to install a that at the highest amperage my panel will support.

Yes?

Sorry for all the questions. I don't know squat about EVs and even less about electrical work.

--Matt

daveo4porsche

yes! you have the basic gist - questions are no problem

https://shop.porsche.com/us/en-US/p/...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

whiz944

LOL - they even call it a "charger". Even though the real charger is a box inside the car.

Notice that Tesla is very careful to call theirs a Wall Connector, and Mobile Connector. Not a "charger". Many other companies make the same mistake as Porsche though.

whiz944

Realistically there is a point of diminishing returns. The on-board chargers in most EVs nowadays seem to be converging to either 32- or 48 amps max. That translates to 7 to 11 kW. With a cars efficiency of between, say, 3 to 4 miles/kWh, it means it would charge the car at a rate of somewhere in the 20 to 40 miles/hour range. Since most people only drive 30 or so miles a day, that is only an hour or two of charging. I'm lazy and only charge my Tesla once or twice a week - as needed. Though our Volt, with its relatively small battery pack, gets charged nightly.

Friends of mine are very happy charging their cars using re-purposed clothes dryer receptacles. They are 30 amp receptacles, so 24 amps charging (~5.7 kW). Some folks who don't drive a lot even get away with 120V charging at 12 amps.

IMHO the need for home charging at > 48 amps is really if you own a truck with large (e.g., > 100 kWh) battery pack, and put a lot of miles on it every day. Ford Lightning, Chevy Silverado, Hummer, etc. Another scenario is if you want to have multiple EVSEs in your garage for multiple cars, and want to somehow split the power between them. E.g., either via a sub-panel in the garage with each on its own circuit, or a single circuit with power sharing.

rodsky

yup - i have a BMW iX and a Cayenne eHybrid and i cant charge them at the same time at 40amps because i installed a 50 amp breaker with 8 gauge wire into my garage. So i have a 14-50 plug and a dedicated Wallbox charger on the other side. I hadnt read Dave's posts and my Electrical box is 100 yards away from my garage. So if i had to do it again i would do 60-100amps and 6 gauge wire so i am future proofed vs what I need today (I can do the BMW and Posche together - but i have to slow down the Wallbox to allow this use case). And the BMW has a 310 mile range so it gets charged weekly at most. Go and read Dave's posts - i wish i had.

daveo4porsche

I agree 100% on the charge rate of any single EVSE not needing to be much more than 11/12 kW - but I'm still a fan of 80-125 amps of total capacity for one's EV charging in their garage - so you can setup multiple EVSE to share the total load to charge 2-3 EV's all at once

it's not hard to envision. a Hybrid, EV, and a an EV for the children - and charging them all overnight during off-peak billing rates…

there is nothing better than simply plugging everything "in" and letting powersharing/load balancing sort everything out charging all 3 EV's over night…even splitting 50/60/80 amps is pretty effective

but I'm 100% in agreement on not needing more than about 60/48 amp for any given EVSE

my personal setup is 3 Tesla Universal Wall Chargers that are splitting load from a 100 amp breaker (80 amps total capacity to "split") - each Tesla charger can do max 11 kW, but when multiple EV's are plugged in the 80 amps is split to charge everyone at once - friend/family/neighbors are all impressed and seek to replicate once they understand how effective it is.

60-125 amps for the garage sub panel - and then split it tip as you see fit between multiple EVSE's so everything can charge at once during off-peak billing cycles. - that's my recommendation.

daveo4porsche

ideal setup (not necessary but my recommendations if you only want to do this once - there is more EV in your future not less so get your garage ready).

• 80 - 125 amp circuit to a subpanel in the garage
• 50 amp breaker in the sub panel to a Hubble NEMA 14-50/6-50 outlet
  • mostly unused, but there int case you want to use a mobile EVSE or simply as a backup for the hardwired one's
• "n" hardwired EVSE's each on at least a 60 amp breaker (or more) 3 is ideal IMHO - two personal eV's and a friend/family visiting with a hybrid/EV (or child's Chevy Bolt - EV's are ideal teenager vehicles).
  • if the EVSE's support powersharing or load balancing - configure load balancing/power-sharing
    • in my setup I have 3xTesla Universal wall charger, each w/60 amp breaker, all 3 are configured to "share" 80 amps o charging capacity (100 amp breaker) - I can charge EV's all at once and the 3 Tesla UWC's co-operate to avoid overloading the 100/80 amp circuit.
  • if the EVSE's do NOT support powershairng/load-balancing configure the EVSE's to "statically" "split" the. amp capacity
    • example if you have a 80 amp sub panel - and not using load sharing EVSE's - you can configure each EVSE to have a "40" amp breaker (32 amp charge rate for each one)
    • alternatively you could statically configure one to be 'fast' (50 amp breaker) and the other to be "slow" (30 amp breaker) to avoid overloading your 80 amp "main sub panel breaker"

you can obviously start with one EVSE hardwired - and only add multiple EVSE's where there is a need - but the goal is to have vision and a plan - knowing you're going to eventually add another EVSE and have it "share" the load (either dynamically or statically load splitting) puts you way way ahead of the game for your future multi-EV household - once you had a sub panel with space and AMP capacity - adding a new breaker and an 2nd EVSE is trivial for when you bring home your Taycan GT or Lucid Air Sapphire 0-60 mph in less than 2.1 second monsters - the point is you've set yourself up for your 2nd and potentially 3rd EVSE to be a trivial addition to your existing setup rather than another whole round of "let's do this again"...

when I was driving my Taycan, and my wife was in her Model X, and my Son/Daughter were sharing a Chevy Bolt - plugging in all 3 each night and just having it all "work" and everyone wakes up in the morning with their vehicle's ready to go - was just super nice - no planning/fussing over who gets to charge tonight…just plug in and walk away

just plugging into multiple EV's and walking away know they will all simply charge overnight is the very definition of owner satisfaction…

the setup above is _OVERKILL_ but will setup you for a future mulit-EV household and be easy to modify and "grow"

a sup-panel makes it easy/affordable to make changes -and one you get the hang of this thing - eVSE's are only 3 wire affairs (2 hots + ground) - so it's super easy to add/remove/change an EVSE if you have a sub panel right there in the garage…

the big cost is the new breaker in the home's main panel and the wire from the new breaker in the main panel to the location in the garage - once you have the circuit to the garage, branching from there for multiple EVSE's or making changes is fairly easy - cause the big/hard wire pull/run has been done…(most homes getting a new wire from the main panel to the garage _IS_ the trick) - once you have the circuit/outlet in the garage modifications branching off from that socket/location/junctionbox is easy and not that hard.