TikiLou

My question is why you don't consider Genesis a luxury brand if you consider Lexus to be one. They are peers in that sense.

alvav

I guess because they are the new kid on the block and need to prove themselves.

Booth9999

Porsche is just Volkswagen but then again it’s also Audi, Lamborghini, and Bentley. It seems there is a lot more luxury to lean on here no?
Is there another automotive group that has is more invested in performance and luxury?

KONG991TT

So much to unpack here....

1) You the typical magazine reader that only knows how to read specs - go buy a Lexus, no one here gives a ****.
2) If your decision making is based on a value, Lexus is an excellent brand
3) Do you think Porsche is a value brand?
4) all this " I was the CEO, don't need loans or financing", you are compensating as much as the guys on the BMW forums.

A lot of talk coming from a big shot CEO looking to Rennlist to put "porsche on notice" because of a new Lexus coming out.
ClubLexus is a great forum. You should spend more time over there.

importtuner

i really like the new Lexus truck, but I really dont think the brands and the product are comparable.

PorscheACC

Yeap definitely.. there are Porsche company related elements in this forum that will try to cover/simplify any abuses, overcharges, and/or deep quality/reliability problems that Porsche do/have..

Porsche buyers get the full sales BS marketing on quality, service excellence, reliability, etc.. etc.. and then they are waiting for weeks, months waiting for the repairs to be done, the complaints are completely ignored and takes several visits to address well known issues that they claim they never heard bedore, they get overcharged in parts and service, etc. and then get the string of questionable expensive repairs treatment..

It was never about Lexus, but of new incoming models, and other available brands like Tesla, etc., that will cause Porsche to continue to lose profits and sales if Porsche doesn’t correct certain behaviors..

I already showed the straight down loss of profits that Porsche had over the last years..

That I own a Porsche does not mean I am going to be a blind cheerleader to abuses, quality, supply issues, and technical problems with a vehicle.

Sure, if you work for Porsche and there are problems, you will feel your work is threatened, but either you choose to put your head in between your legs or you choose to do something to address the issues and improve the brand and sales. I see a lot of people here that just put their heads in beetween their legs and try to bash people who exposes some obvious issues.

The 2024 Lexus GX-559 was just an example of a new incoming vehicle that could easily compete with the Cayenne Base and S. Many of the issues are caused by Porsche negligence, lack of transparency, and for-dollar mentality.

Porsche customers are getting aware of the Lithium battery nightmare, which is not only a defect that kills the battery, but it is triggered by BMS incorrectly overcharging the battery, incorrect programming, plus Porsche over-charging $3,000+ for a battery replacement that was supposed to last around 10 years and in many cases the replacement was not necessary because in many cases one could reset the battery open switch with Porsche programming tools and/or the battery controller/sensor could be replaced like many web places are offering to do for around $500.

Charging $1,000+ for just labor replacing and registering a 9YA battery is a ripped off because it is so easy to replace it, on thses models, and it takes 5 minutes to register the battery, which is the same BMS battery registration procefure since 2009.

There are many other issues like with the infotainment issues, ACC, start/stop, 2nd gear lurching, $1,100 l oil services, etc..etc.. some of these gremlins will never be solved by Porsche and owners will have to live with it/them.

So Porsche vehicle owners have the right to complain and have Porsche correct its downward spiral and customer service, or as mentioned/shown before, there are other vehicles now with better performance, quality, prices, service charges, options, and reliability..

Porsche ICE bussiness will deeply struggle with Tesla and other incoming EVs brands, too, if they continue to follow a way overpriced service/parts, customer deafness, and per-dollar priority bussiness.

Patton250

I think you and I live on two completely different planets. Sometimes for fun, I watch this conspiracy theory YouTube channel and he did a whole thing on alternate universe. Of course, for the most part I think it’s all nonsense, but you’re starting to make me believe him.

First off trying to compare anything from Lexus to Porsche. It’s not fair to Lexus. It’s an entirely different league. It’s like comparing Kia to Audi or BMW. It’s just not the same.

Secondly, have you been to a Porsche dealership lately? All of them here in Florida sell every car they get. The wait list for 911’s is two years.

Now granted, I agree with you that customer service sucks at least at these Florida dealerships but that’s what happens when there’s such high demand and no products because they sell out. If you don’t believe me, go to a Rolex Boutique.

silversurfer6

So just to understand since this is a magic prediction discussion: i was thinking to buy porsche stock - should I do it or it will drop? ))

PorscheACC

You decide.. It's your money..

Personally, I would put my money in Nvidia and AMD AI stocks.. but that's just my researched opinion..

silversurfer6

I would ask another stupid question since the subject is much bigger than this" porsche overcharging and reliability: I will providing my opinion on this based on by experience driving porsche and audis for 20 years and my friends driving bms, mercedes and range rovers. Please note most of my friends try to go to Porsche now for their SUVs for some reason

Everybody knows that Range Rover are very unreliable cars, they cost as much as a cayenne and yet they still sell a lot. What is the reason why? Are they selling much fewer cars than the Cayenne? Based on what the OP mentioned in my opinion land Rover should have gone down a lot time ago - i know about 10 people that had their cars and will not touch them again - i do not know even one person that will not touch a porsche because of unreliability.

silversurfer6

This says kind of otherwise. I mentioned stock because based on what you are saying is that stock will fall - I guess what you are predicting though is what will cause stock to fall. The thing though that these financial geniuses study all these and there is no indication of a problem anywhere. It was actually the biggest IPO in europe everywhere and the company is the most profitable car company in the world. Stock predictions are good and they are sold out of cars in most countries. Honestly they must do something much worse than overcharging - hello Apple - or a battery/pcm probelm.

Stock predictions:

silversurfer6

Furthermore I am amazed about the sales of the 24 cayenne based on figures from 3 very small dealers - I do not know about any other figures or other statictics. All 3 of them sold 50+ cars during the launch months.

This is actual unprecedented for them and it was never at these quantities. If you take account that the car is now much more expensive - better explained now that the cayenne is now not a $100k car (E3.1) but a $130-140k (E3.2) one then honestly deduce the original post does not make sense. It seems the demand is much more now than ever - for any reason - for the Cayenne.

PorscheACC

Range Rover vehicles have nagging problems but are very reliable in that they will not let you stranded, even after going through difficult terrains and conditions were many other vehicles will not be able to go..

I remember one of my first Mercedes SUVs, in the early 2000 years.

They had camshaft and crankshaft sensors issues, and one of those sensors was not detected by the engine computer and will just suddenly die while driving with no detectable reason. Owners used to live in the forums trying to find solutions..

Once the sensor cooled, the engine will start again, but the dealer always stated that they could not reproduce the issue because there were no errors/obdii codes logged and everything worked fine. At the end and after years, they found the Bosch sensors were faulty.

The fuel pumps were known to freeze frequently, and if you knew better, you could kick/hit the fuel pump to make it work again.. Not to mention of many other problems..

There were some people that ended using their Mercedes SUVs just to go to church on Sundays, because they were terrified being stranded or having problems with it. They bought another vehicle to drive on the other days..

I use quality performance vehicles for daily driving, towing, trips, off-road, etc., if you cannot rely on your vehicle to take you safely to places, then it is crap.. no matter what marketing BS they throw to you or what cult followers want to believe..

pitt911

as BMW, MB , and Audi expanded their market with producing a lot of variants including entry level models . Most of the 1 % like to be different than the less wealthy other people and this is why they started buying other brands including Porsche and Range Rover
even at the cost of dealing with unreliable cars .
Range Rovers were driven by the . 1 %
and now the .1 % are shifting to Bentley, Lambo etc ..
it is human nature
like a person states my uncle is the CEO of X company , but will not state my other uncle is a garbage collector for WM
you get the picture

golftime

Porsche is certainly not a perfect company. They are challenged with taking engineering close to the limits while trying to maintain reliability, all at a price point, and it doesn't always work. The LIPO batteries are a good example and I agree those problems are enough to make you move on to another brand. The new BMWs however are no better. They have great engines but otherwise they have more than their share of problems, and if you drive one, the steering has about as much road feel as your father's 1965 Ford. Land Rovers look great but are nothing but trouble. Teslas have tons of straight line acceleration but again, the driving experience is numb at best, and their quality control is scary. And the stories about ghost braking are even more scary.

I was recently on a competing manufacturer's forum and there was some bashing of Porsche going on. One of the forum members responded by saying he had driven virtually all the models of Porsches over the years, and stated Porsche is different from any other manufacturer, noting they feel differently from the minute you get in them, and they drive differently from everything else. He finished by saying if you can't feel that difference, go by a Honda because that difference is being wasted on you.

Most of the problems for all the manufacturers seem to be related to the integration of technology, including infotainment systems and driver driver safety systems, and no one seems immune to those including Honda/Acura and Toyota Lexus. And those problems tend to be difficult and expensive to address.

If I have one concern, each generation of Porsche I own, both 911s and Cayennes, seem to be getting more and more refined, almost too Lexus like for me. That's one reason I refuse to move from my 997.2 911 with manual transmission. I feel it continues to exemplify what the 911 was meant to be. Maybe Porsche has no choice since it seems to be what newer buyers are looking for. At the end of the day, the market will determine the success of Porsche as well as every other manufacturer, and while I am personally not very enamored with the 2024 Cayenne, they seem to be selling like hotcakes.