Porsche better stop being stingy, unreliable, and overcharging for maintenance/repair
09-03-2023, 04:50 PM
#31
I’ve had my GT4 for 7 years and 50,000 miles without major problems. It is such an incredible vehicle that really made me enamored with the brand especially the GT division. It was a no brainer for me to get the 2024 TGT once they did the aggressive facelift. I’m in awe of the engineering and GT division tweaks behind the TGT every time I take it on the road 
Last edited by user1029; 09-03-2023 at 04:52 PM.
09-03-2023, 04:51 PM
#32
My main concern is the complexity that makes serving difficult for folks who like to service their cars. If I have to rely on the dealer for all service, that detracts from the ownership experience for me. I’m probably in the minority. I like their products but …..
Last edited by justabout; 09-03-2023 at 04:52 PM. Reason: Grammar
09-03-2023, 05:25 PM
#33
Yeah we are going back to Lexus for the family car when the CPO warranty on the 22 GTS is up. A family car just has to work and this Cayenne has already left us stranded two times over 7 months of ownership (LiPOS battery related). Last thing I need when getting ready in the morning with the kid is to go to the car and not be able to start it. Not to mention all the times when we cannot use most of the functions on the car because the PCM is frozen or unresponsive, etc. That seems to happen once every two weeks or so.
Over 10 years of Lexus ownership the car did not work properly exactly zero times.
I can live with a temperamental "fun" or "weekend" or track car. But a family car just has to work.
Over 10 years of Lexus ownership the car did not work properly exactly zero times.
I can live with a temperamental "fun" or "weekend" or track car. But a family car just has to work.
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09-03-2023, 05:49 PM
#34
Porsche is still a remarkable company. The 911 and BoxsterCayman are wonderful. Seriously.
The Macan is a great all-season car for most.
The Cayenne is still a good car, but the competition has gotten really close. If you can afford the maintenance and purchase of a GTS or better, go for it. But the Base Cayenne doesn’t really impress me for the money.
The Macan is a great all-season car for most.
The Cayenne is still a good car, but the competition has gotten really close. If you can afford the maintenance and purchase of a GTS or better, go for it. But the Base Cayenne doesn’t really impress me for the money.
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09-03-2023, 05:58 PM
#35
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Sure I mean, I don’t see Lexus there, most if not all the top speeds are high end luxury comparable SUVs. This whole gripe was “Porsche is going to lose customers to non-comparable brands”.
Comparable 0-60 times aren’t that interesting to me. Let’s see a model X take an on or off ramp at 85, you’ll be rolling down into a ditch. <1% are taking these cars to the track/getting anywhere near those top speeds. If you want to make the argument someone is going to move from P to and Aston or AMG, M, Lambo or Ferrari-like brands then sure. But Porsche isn’t going to lose any sort of buyer share of someone in line for a performance SUV like a GTS/Turbo/GT to a 6 cylinder 350 hp family car.
Comparable 0-60 times aren’t that interesting to me. Let’s see a model X take an on or off ramp at 85, you’ll be rolling down into a ditch. <1% are taking these cars to the track/getting anywhere near those top speeds. If you want to make the argument someone is going to move from P to and Aston or AMG, M, Lambo or Ferrari-like brands then sure. But Porsche isn’t going to lose any sort of buyer share of someone in line for a performance SUV like a GTS/Turbo/GT to a 6 cylinder 350 hp family car.
Off-Road features, crawling, standard rear differential locking, 8,000 lbs. towing, 10 speeds, twin turbo woth 470 lbs-ft torque, 33" tires, all luxury features included, etc..etc..
My second Mercedes SUV was an AMG SUV, which I really enjoyed off-roading here in Texas and the V8 drove and sounded great.
My point is that Lexus introduction of the GX-550, will add another competitor to the low end Cayenne Base and S, which don't offer much better than the incoming GX-550, and on the contrary it comes with many default features that Porsche doesn't have..
The Tesla Model X Plaid is far more powerful than many Porsches, featuring a triple-motor setup with one front and two rear motors, producing 1,020 hp and 1,047 lb-ft (1,420 Nm) of torque.
For comparison a $230,000 Porsche 911 Turbo S boasts a 3.8-liter, twin-turbocharged flat-six engine generating 640 hp / 590 lb-ft, which is channeled to all four wheels through an 8-speed DCT transmission.
Both cars seem evenly matched and leave the line together, but the surprise twist is that the Tesla ends up pulling ahead at the top end as they reach higher speeds, but it is at the top end speed that the Porsche will go ahead because of its 205 mph limit, but who goes at that speed here in the US roads.. very..very.. few owners..
Most people don't own high-end vehicles like Porsches, and other high-end brands, just to go to a track.. Many of them are just performance daily drivers, if you can afford it..
Last edited by PorscheACC; 09-03-2023 at 06:45 PM.
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alvav (09-04-2023)
09-03-2023, 06:08 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Porsche is still a remarkable company. The 911 and BoxsterCayman are wonderful. Seriously.
The Macan is a great all-season car for most.
The Cayenne is still a good car, but the competition has gotten really close. If you can afford the maintenance and purchase of a GTS or better, go for it. But the Base Cayenne doesn’t really impress me for the money.
The Macan is a great all-season car for most.
The Cayenne is still a good car, but the competition has gotten really close. If you can afford the maintenance and purchase of a GTS or better, go for it. But the Base Cayenne doesn’t really impress me for the money.
Porsche owners have the duty to keep it that way, and not let accountants and for-dollar corporate managers slowly destroy a high-end technology automotive company for quick cheap dollars..
Last edited by PorscheACC; 09-03-2023 at 06:09 PM.
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Booth9999 (09-04-2023)
09-03-2023, 06:59 PM
#38
Rennlist Member
Yeah we are going back to Lexus for the family car when the CPO warranty on the 22 GTS is up. A family car just has to work and this Cayenne has already left us stranded two times over 7 months of ownership (LiPOS battery related). Last thing I need when getting ready in the morning with the kid is to go to the car and not be able to start it. Not to mention all the times when we cannot use most of the functions on the car because the PCM is frozen or unresponsive, etc. That seems to happen once every two weeks or so.
Over 10 years of Lexus ownership the car did not work properly exactly zero times.
I can live with a temperamental "fun" or "weekend" or track car. But a family car just has to work.
Over 10 years of Lexus ownership the car did not work properly exactly zero times.
I can live with a temperamental "fun" or "weekend" or track car. But a family car just has to work.
I loved the performance , but the annoying features were too much for a daily driver .
when I am heading to work at 5:30 am , I want to relax and listen to some music rather than deal with PCM issues
and trips to dealer " software update " always made the problem worse
sold it for an X5
not the best performer, but the technology works, and happy to made the switch
my 991 GT3RS for weekend driving , I care less about Technology stuff
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mafpolo (09-03-2023)
09-03-2023, 07:11 PM
#39
Rennlist Member
also , when you build expensive cars/SUV for the masses , you need to insure that your dealer network can deliver a high level of customer service
one example:
with Porsche I never called service for a problem and they had a loaner available to use in a reasonable amount of time .Always no loaners for 2-3 weeks . Then have to call GM, who I know, and he will give me something off the lot which could be a used non Porsche car on the lot
Never had similar issue with BMW, MB, or Audi
one time I took my E63 MB for service , they gave me a C class car , which is fine, the GM saw that and started waving at me , she asked me to stop and she asked the guy , why he gave me a C class . He replied , we don't have other options .
She took a loaded brand new E class off the show room floor and put it in loaner program and gave it to me.I will call this great service
Porsche should insure that their dealers have enough cars for the loaner fleet . And before anyone jumps and say Covid supply issues, It was the same way before Covid
one example:
with Porsche I never called service for a problem and they had a loaner available to use in a reasonable amount of time .Always no loaners for 2-3 weeks . Then have to call GM, who I know, and he will give me something off the lot which could be a used non Porsche car on the lot
Never had similar issue with BMW, MB, or Audi
one time I took my E63 MB for service , they gave me a C class car , which is fine, the GM saw that and started waving at me , she asked me to stop and she asked the guy , why he gave me a C class . He replied , we don't have other options .
She took a loaded brand new E class off the show room floor and put it in loaner program and gave it to me.I will call this great service
Porsche should insure that their dealers have enough cars for the loaner fleet . And before anyone jumps and say Covid supply issues, It was the same way before Covid
09-03-2023, 07:48 PM
#40
Porsche dealers often think they’re god’s gift to car sales. There is definitely a bit of arrogance from the people who sell and service it.
I mean, kind of deserved though because everyone wants to work there and people are lining up to buy more of their products…
I mean, kind of deserved though because everyone wants to work there and people are lining up to buy more of their products…
09-03-2023, 08:18 PM
#41
Rennlist Member
If you read my post, you will have noticed that it is the 2024 Lexus GX 550, which will be released at the start of next year.
Off-Road features, crawling, standard rear differential locking, 8,000 lbs. towing, 10 speeds, twin turbo woth 470 lbs-ft torque, 33" tires, all luxury features included, etc..etc..
My point is that Lexus introduction of the GX-550, will add another competitor to the low end Cayenne Base and S, which don't offer much better than the incoming GX-550, and on the contrary it comes with many default features that Porsche doesn't have..
Off-Road features, crawling, standard rear differential locking, 8,000 lbs. towing, 10 speeds, twin turbo woth 470 lbs-ft torque, 33" tires, all luxury features included, etc..etc..
My point is that Lexus introduction of the GX-550, will add another competitor to the low end Cayenne Base and S, which don't offer much better than the incoming GX-550, and on the contrary it comes with many default features that Porsche doesn't have..
09-03-2023, 08:56 PM
#42
I love Lexus (Toyota in general). If you want a reliable car nothing compares. Infiniti actually is making good progress but lol. Did you know the Lexus UX takes regular fuel?? However!!! their dealerships are huge rip offs. Not quite to P level but they tried to hit me with a needed $600 wheel alignment when I came to service a bit early b/c they did the service at an earlier interval. The point is the stealership issues goes beyond anything Porsche can do. There are plenty of threads online about the legal framework that creates the system we live in.
Now as to Lexus being dependable and cheap to maintain, they are just super easy to service by 3rd party. Parts are insanely affordable, oil filter was $6. Cabin air filter $30.
Now generally, Porsche is just an extremely different type of car… even within Porsche. The 911 base is a vastly superior car to almost anything on the market. It is the worlds most affordable super car. But Porsche has to deliver base models to the masses and that will compete with the Lexus/MB/BMW. They need to make loads of profits to compete with those mass market cars. It’s a delicate balance.
Right now most people don’t know how to use technology. You can load a BMW with all the tech stuff but you have a buyer who wants the P car and all they care is the backup camera.
NOW, there is 0 excuse for Porsche to sub in plastic parts in the engine (water pump threads), there is 0 excuse they are not mass swapping LifePOS batteries and there is 0 excuse not to have the rear center seat in the same leather color.
But honestly if like all there is to complain about…. It’s just not that bad. Most people don’t own these cars beyond warranty and the enthusiast Cayenne is a rare rare rare find. We here have loaded Cayennes, GTS’ but the production numbers are low because it’s just a small segment overall. Most people aren’t buying fully loaded M60 competitions or whatever. The market is base or mid base. We are NOT their target audience. They don’t care about us.
however, in the words of my good friend the Lexus has no soul and the 911 is a class of its own.
Now as to Lexus being dependable and cheap to maintain, they are just super easy to service by 3rd party. Parts are insanely affordable, oil filter was $6. Cabin air filter $30.
Now generally, Porsche is just an extremely different type of car… even within Porsche. The 911 base is a vastly superior car to almost anything on the market. It is the worlds most affordable super car. But Porsche has to deliver base models to the masses and that will compete with the Lexus/MB/BMW. They need to make loads of profits to compete with those mass market cars. It’s a delicate balance.
Right now most people don’t know how to use technology. You can load a BMW with all the tech stuff but you have a buyer who wants the P car and all they care is the backup camera.
NOW, there is 0 excuse for Porsche to sub in plastic parts in the engine (water pump threads), there is 0 excuse they are not mass swapping LifePOS batteries and there is 0 excuse not to have the rear center seat in the same leather color.
But honestly if like all there is to complain about…. It’s just not that bad. Most people don’t own these cars beyond warranty and the enthusiast Cayenne is a rare rare rare find. We here have loaded Cayennes, GTS’ but the production numbers are low because it’s just a small segment overall. Most people aren’t buying fully loaded M60 competitions or whatever. The market is base or mid base. We are NOT their target audience. They don’t care about us.
however, in the words of my good friend the Lexus has no soul and the 911 is a class of its own.
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chassis (09-03-2023)
09-03-2023, 09:59 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Besides possibly braking and steering at high speeds, the Cayenne Base and S don't offer much to be able to compete very good with the incoming 2024 GX-550 and the Lexus reliability, its price, service costs, and amount of options included by the incomming 2024 Luxury GX-550..
Porsche will need to improve its business or continue to slide down hard. You know that China will be 90% EVs by 2030, with 1,000+ mile solid-state and solid-state salt based batteries which are starting to be mass produced this and next year, which would be a huge sales loss for all German automakers.
In Germany over the first half of 2023, Tesla surpassed Volkswagen in electric vehicle sales for the first time, which is a huge red flag for all German vehicle makets.
We'll see when Lexus releases it at the start of next year.. A hybrid GX-550 with 400+ HP and 500+ lbs-ft torque is coming next year too..
I will, now, definitely wait and check the Lexus GX-550 before I make any decision on my new next high-end performance SUV..
No Lexus have called my attention before, but the incoming 2024 GX 550 has. It does not have the large grills, and the redesign looks more like a Land Rover or similar..
The incoming 2024 GX-550 has a twin-turbo with 478 lbs-ft torque, 8,000 lbs towimg, 7 seats, Lo range for off-roading, 10 speeds, GPS system Navigation features that works without having to pay Porsche every month/year, electronic Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System, adaptive dampers, 14" infotainment screen, rear differential locks, etc..
All for what? For around $90,000+ Fully Luxury/Features loaded and Lexus quality/reliability/service..
And what with Porsche not willing to add a Sports Button on the steering wheel and even removing it as an option in the programmable list of options.. For what, so that all their vehicle customers are forced to spend $1,100.00 to add one? and if the vehicle doesn't come with one, then you are toasted?
You have to be a penny pincher dimwit corporate manager to remove such a basic and necessary option from one of the supposed to be best performance vehicle companies.. that just shows the tip of the iceberg on what decision making problems Porsche is having..
09-03-2023, 10:33 PM
#44
Racer
It's really too bad that nice stuff costs so much right now. My wife and I went out to dinner a couple of weeks ago and it costs nearly $300 and we don't drink.
Anyway, I digress.
Anyway, I digress.
09-03-2023, 10:48 PM
#45
Hhmm.. with no details provided on to why.. so I will since I have a couple of minutes..
Besides possibly braking and steering at high speeds, the Cayenne Base and S don't offer much to be able to compete very good with the incoming 2024 GX-550 and the Lexus reliability, its price, service costs, and amount of options included by the incomming 2024 Luxury GX-550..
Porsche will need to improve its business or continue to slide down hard. You know that China will be 90% EVs by 2030, with 1,000+ mile solid-state and solid-state salt based batteries which are starting to be mass produced this and next year, which would be a huge sales loss for all German automakers.
In Germany over the first half of 2023, Tesla surpassed Volkswagen in electric vehicle sales for the first time, which is a huge red flag for all German vehicle makets.
We'll see when Lexus releases it at the start of next year.. A hybrid GX-550 with 400+ HP and 500+ lbs-ft torque is coming next year too..
I will, now, definitely wait and check the Lexus GX-550 before I make any decision on my new next high-end performance SUV..
No Lexus have called my attention before, but the incoming 2024 GX 550 has. It does not have the large grills, and the redesign looks more like a Land Rover or similar..
The incoming 2024 GX-550 has a twin-turbo with 478 lbs-ft torque, 8,000 lbs towimg, 7 seats, Lo range for off-roading, 10 speeds, GPS system Navigation features that works without having to pay Porsche every month/year, electronic Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System, adaptive dampers, 14" infotainment screen, rear differential locks, etc..
All for what? For around $90,000+ Fully Luxury/Features loaded and Lexus quality/reliability/service..
And what with Porsche not willing to add a Sports Button on the steering wheel and even removing it as an option in the programmable list of options.. For what, so that all their vehicle customers are forced to spend $1,100.00 to add one? and if the vehicle doesn't come with one, then you are toasted?
You have to be a penny pincher dimwit corporate manager to remove such a basic and necessary option from one of the supposed to be best performance vehicle companies.. that just shows the tip of the iceberg on what decision making problems Porsche is having..
Besides possibly braking and steering at high speeds, the Cayenne Base and S don't offer much to be able to compete very good with the incoming 2024 GX-550 and the Lexus reliability, its price, service costs, and amount of options included by the incomming 2024 Luxury GX-550..
Porsche will need to improve its business or continue to slide down hard. You know that China will be 90% EVs by 2030, with 1,000+ mile solid-state and solid-state salt based batteries which are starting to be mass produced this and next year, which would be a huge sales loss for all German automakers.
In Germany over the first half of 2023, Tesla surpassed Volkswagen in electric vehicle sales for the first time, which is a huge red flag for all German vehicle makets.
We'll see when Lexus releases it at the start of next year.. A hybrid GX-550 with 400+ HP and 500+ lbs-ft torque is coming next year too..
I will, now, definitely wait and check the Lexus GX-550 before I make any decision on my new next high-end performance SUV..
No Lexus have called my attention before, but the incoming 2024 GX 550 has. It does not have the large grills, and the redesign looks more like a Land Rover or similar..
The incoming 2024 GX-550 has a twin-turbo with 478 lbs-ft torque, 8,000 lbs towimg, 7 seats, Lo range for off-roading, 10 speeds, GPS system Navigation features that works without having to pay Porsche every month/year, electronic Kinetic Dynamic Suspension System, adaptive dampers, 14" infotainment screen, rear differential locks, etc..
All for what? For around $90,000+ Fully Luxury/Features loaded and Lexus quality/reliability/service..
And what with Porsche not willing to add a Sports Button on the steering wheel and even removing it as an option in the programmable list of options.. For what, so that all their vehicle customers are forced to spend $1,100.00 to add one? and if the vehicle doesn't come with one, then you are toasted?
You have to be a penny pincher dimwit corporate manager to remove such a basic and necessary option from one of the supposed to be best performance vehicle companies.. that just shows the tip of the iceberg on what decision making problems Porsche is having..