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I am well aware that these vehicles are expensive and expensive to maintain. However, this battery situation is absurd. Bad engineering and bad design. Porsche SHOULD be doing everything they can to make an AGM work. Or, they should bring the cost of the replacement down by at least 50%. I love their vehicles. My CD has been absolutely wonderful. It's probably leaving next week, and I hope the SA at a particular dealership turns out to be wrong. Not my dealer, but rather a dealer where I was looking at a 2021 and asked him about it. His last words are, "None of my business, but if I were you, I'd keep that diesel." I'm enjoying the 2021 S I purchased. I wanted a turbo and compromised (couldn't find what I wanted, and if I was going to spend turbo money, I wanted it to be as close to my list as possible). That said, I may start thinking about what I might want in the future. As I said, I love Cayenne's (Porsche period), but I am pretty sick and tired of these type of issues. The PCSB brakes were supposed to be the be all and all if one didn't buy PCCB's, and the PCSB's are already gone, because they failed to live up to expectations. Great engineering does beyond performance and capabilities. Great engineering includes reliability and ease of ownership. My business partner in my former company had been a plant manager for Honda before being a plant manager at BMW. He told me that at Honda, the corporate goal was , "How can we increase reliability by just a little bit every year" At BMW, it was, "How can we improve the car via complexity every year." We're an all Porsche at home. My Lexus was luxurious and a little boring, but it made life simple. Over sixteen years of its life, I had one repair, which was a cracked radiator. I don't wish a lawsuit on anybody, but that said, if Porsche don't tend to this problem, they probably will have earned it.
2023 S is probably the best of the lot so far for any 9Y0 model or year, for overall combination of performance and total cost of ownership.
Honda across the board is truly amazing with ease and cost of maintenance. I just did a big service on my daughter’s current model CR-V and it was a breeze. I have a boat with 2 Honda outboards and maintenance is easy, and parts are easily available and reasonably priced.
BMW is the best of the Germans in this regard. MB is pretty bad across the board in every respect. Porsche in my experience is between the two.
2023 S is probably the best of the lot so far for any 9Y0 model or year, for overall combination of performance and total cost of ownership.
Honda across the board is truly amazing with ease and cost of maintenance. I just did a big service on my daughter’s current model CR-V and it was a breeze. I have a boat with 2 Honda outboards and maintenance is easy, and parts are easily available and reasonably priced.
BMW is the best of the Germans in this regard. MB is pretty bad across the board in every respect. Porsche in my experience is between the two.
I got to the same conclusion over the past year.. ..
Owned a couple of Mercedes SUVs (luxury but cheap troublesome performance, and I lived on the repair forums), Porsche (performance but overpriced options that sometimes don't work well with overpriced repairs and overpriced repairs on known defective/underdesigned parts), and BMW, in my experience has dramatically improved over the years in performance, rechnology, reliability, default options, and overall ownership experience, with many family members owning the latest models over the last decades.
I know many mentioned that 10+ years ago, they had bad experiences with BMW, which is true, but BMW has been improving their engine technology and reliability.. None of the people that I know who own BMW's latest models have to carry a box of quarts of oil to refill their V8 engines in between the 10,000 Mike oil service..
As a matter of fact, none of the female BMW owners that I know will ever check the engine oil in between services, since they are corporate professionals and don't have tge time for it or would even think about it, and more, since they never need to do that on other luxury vehicles they had own before. After decades many of them owning their BMWs, they still don't even know how to check the oil digitally or by dipstick..
I am still blown away by my wife's new BMW and the high-end BMWs that I test drove, which is why, and mostly likely, my next vehicle will be a BMW 60i SUV
These days, the best street legal performance are EV vehicles, which is why Porsche is quickly shifting to the new EV technology era.
We'll see if Porsche can compete with its known antiquated overpricing model basing it on old ICE history prowess.
This and next year, EVs will start having 600 to 900+ miles of range, which will make charging issues irrelevant, and if you have solar your charging energy is free, no more spending $100's because of oil/gas/gasoline cartels or you can't reach a gas station because of a catastrophe..
My neighbor has solar panels and Tesla batteries and does not pay a dime for his Tesla electricity charging and almost nothing for his home electricity.
I will put solar when Tesla comes with it's 4th generation Tesla batteries and solar shingles, by then, there should be nice 900+ mile range luxury loaded SUVs.
Just had mine replaced under warranty this week. Not sure if they used the Emissions warranty or my CPO warranty, but I didn't pay a nickel. Just tell them the battery is fine you think the module is dead and causing the auto start/stop to not work. That makes it an emissions issue.
The dealer also said the Porsche has reduced the price of the battery down to $1300 for those who aren't covered under warranty because they recognize there's an issue.
Last edited by shadetree_prjct; 04-07-2024 at 09:15 PM.
Just had mine replaced under warranty this week. Not sure if they used the Emissions warranty or my CPO warranty, but I didn't pay a nickel. Just tell them the battery is fine you think the module is dead and causing the auto start/stop to not work. That makes it an emissions issue.
The dealer also said the Porsche has reduced the price of the battery down to $1300 for those who aren't covered under warranty because they recognize there's an issue.
It's certainly good that your battery was covered under warranty.
Regarding the price reduction down to $1,300 - well, this is movement in the right direction - but it continues to reinforce the fact that Porsche is not handling the issue in a responsible fashion.
Porsche does not manufacture this battery. It is manufactured by LG in South Korea. LG is the contracted supplier of the component for Porsche.
If Porsche had 1 molecule of conscience and integrity, they would hold this supplier to the fire and make THEM fully accountable for the "recognized issue".
The fact that the "issue" exists is the fault of LG. LG should be forced to own up and make all of the affected Porsche customers 100% whole.
If LG were to fail to do this, then Porsche, in acknowledgement of their responsibility for choosing LG, should provide their customers with another solution (conversion to an AGM battery would be best). If Porsche covered the cost of the negative battery cable and labor to do the conversion, and had the customer pay a prorated cost for the AGM battery (based on the age of the failed LiFePO4 battery) - that would be a responsible solution.
It would help at least in part to restore the confidence of the Porsche owners affected.
It's certainly good that your battery was covered under warranty.
Regarding the price reduction down to $1,300 - well, this is movement in the right direction - but it continues to reinforce the fact that Porsche is not handling the issue in a responsible fashion.
Porsche does not manufacture this battery. It is manufactured by LG in South Korea. LG is the contracted supplier of the component for Porsche.
If Porsche had 1 molecule of conscience and integrity, they would hold this supplier to the fire and make THEM fully accountable for the "recognized issue".
The fact that the "issue" exists is the fault of LG. LG should be forced to own up and make all of the affected Porsche customers 100% whole.
If LG were to fail to do this, then Porsche, in acknowledgement of their responsibility for choosing LG, should provide their customers with another solution (conversion to an AGM battery would be best). If Porsche covered the cost of the negative battery cable and labor to do the conversion, and had the customer pay a prorated cost for the AGM battery (based on the age of the failed LiFePO4 battery) - that would be a responsible solution.
It would help at least in part to restore the confidence of the Porsche owners affected.
Porsche never has come public about this large part/programming defect, so still no kudos to Porsche for sporadic defective battery exchanges.
Second, Porsche has never put a TSB on this highly and obvious defective part. Worst, Porsche charged $1,000 for a simple battery labor/registration, which has been a ****ty insult to their owners.
Additionally, I heard it from two dealers, one in VA and one in OH, that there was a shipment of batteries that got sent back at the border by FedEx because they weren't marked correctly. Hence the massive delay. LOLOL Oh Porsche...
Last edited by shadetree_prjct; 04-07-2024 at 11:48 PM.
Porsche never has come public about this large part/programming defect, so still no kudos to Porsche for sporadic defective battery exchanges.
Second, Porsche has never put a TSB on this highly and obvious defective part. Worst, Porsche charged $1,000 for a simple battery labor/registration, which has been a ****ty insult to their owners.
They came out with something very public, even available from the NHTSA as of January 2023. It detais how to test the battery for proper function. If the test fails, the battery is replaced. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...31325-0001.pdf
They came out with something very public, even available from the NHTSA as of January 2023. It detais how to test the battery for proper function. If the test fails, the battery is replaced. https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/20...31325-0001.pdf
That bulletin came on 2020, when they found there were various types of problems with the new 9Y0's model's Lithium-Ion LiFePO4 batteries..
Porsche knew they were defective batteries and immediately started working on replacing these batteries with AGMs on the following model years, because there was no time left or choice for them
The latest update to the document was on January 2023.
All that time, and until recently for most people, Porsche has been billing the customers for new batteries with around an MSRP of $2,200 per-battery and a ripoff $1,000 for labor charge.
Nowhere in that document says Porsche’s warranty will replace the batteries for free and/or with a free labor charge, and even now, people are being charged for replacing the defective and/or BMS overcharging damaged batteries.
As, many Porsche owners in this forum, in other forums, and owners around have found out that they need to pay Porsche for the new batteries and for the ripoff labor charge.
Some people may have been lucky recently with Porsche warranting them to avoid angry owners potential lawsuits, and some of them even had to wait months for there batteries replacement to arrive.
There is a reason why Porsche immediately stopped using LGChem LiFePO4 batteries on these 9Y0 Cayenne modelsand started using AGMs again.
It became a total fiasco.. With batteries that were supposed to last 10 years began failing after only 2 years..
Last edited by PorscheACC; 05-08-2024 at 12:20 AM.
That bulletin came on 2020, when they found there were various types of problems with the new 9Y0's model's Lithium-Ion LiFePO4 batteries..
Porsche knew they were defective batteries and immediately started working on replacing these batteries with AGMs on the following model years, because there was no time left or choice for them
The latest update to the document was on January 2023.
All that time, and until recently for most people, Porsche has been billing the customers for new batteries with around an MSRP of $2,200 per-battery and a ripoff $1,000 for labor charge.
Nowhere in that document says Porsche’s warranty will replace the batteries for free and/or with a free labor charge, and even now, people are being charged for replacing the defective and/or BMS overcharging damaged batteries.
As, many Porsche owners in this forum, in other forums, and owners around have found out that they need to pay Porsche for the new batteries and for the ripoff labor charge.
Some people may have been lucky recently with Porsche warranting them to avoid angry owners potential lawsuits, and some of them even had to wait months for there batteries replacement to arrive.
There is a reason why Porsche immediately stopped using LGChem LiFePO4 batteries on these 9Y0 Cayenne modelsand started using AGMs again.
It became a total fiasco.. With batteries that were supposed to last 10 years began failing after only 2 years..
Porsche NEVER stopped using LiFePO4 batteries. They did reduced their reliance on them during COVID by using AGM in lower-spec cars (like ones without rear-wheel steering). They still use LifePO4 batteries to this day (911, Tacan, and Cayenne, probably Panamera now, too).
If your "10 year" (where did Porsche quote that?) battery failed under warranty, it was replaced under warranty. Pure and simple. A few people have even had theirs replaced under the terms of their emissions warranty.
Mine is a 2019, June 2019 production. Of the 4 other 2019 and 2020 Cayennes that live near me, all of us got LiFePO4 batteries. All of us got the programming update. 3 of us got the warning light before the update. NONE of us have had our batteries replaced.
Is this a huge problem? No. Could Porsche have done better? Most definitely Yes. They could have handled this MUCH better. Are dealers still out to fark people over? Yes they are. Is this going to change how Porsche does business? Nope. Not one bit. If you don't like it, go buy another brand (and that manufacturer will do the SAME thing to you).
Porsche NEVER stopped using LiFePO4 batteries. They did reduced their reliance on them during COVID by using AGM in lower-spec cars (like ones without rear-wheel steering). They still use LifePO4 batteries to this day (911, Tacan, and Cayenne, probably Panamera now, too).
If your "10 year" (where did Porsche quote that?) battery failed under warranty, it was replaced under warranty. Pure and simple. A few people have even had theirs replaced under the terms of their emissions warranty.
Mine is a 2019, June 2019 production. Of the 4 other 2019 and 2020 Cayennes that live near me, all of us got LiFePO4 batteries. All of us got the programming update. 3 of us got the warning light before the update. NONE of us have had our batteries replaced.
Is this a huge problem? No. Could Porsche have done better? Most definitely Yes. They could have handled this MUCH better. Are dealers still out to fark people over? Yes they are. Is this going to change how Porsche does business? Nope. Not one bit. If you don't like it, go buy another brand (and that manufacturer will do the SAME thing to you).
I am talking defective LGChem manufacturerd batteries that are used on the 9Y0 Cayennes.
There are no more 9Y0 Porsche Cayennes new models using LGChem Lithium LiFePO4 batteries anymore.
All the new Cayenne models use strictly AGM batteries.
It's never a problem for those owners that don't have the problem, and it is not a problem for Porsche because it has hugely profited from the defective LGCem batteries, their buggy BMS programming, and the $1,000 ripoff labor for a very simple installation and registration process.
There are a lot of people in this and other forums that had the BMS battery overcharging programming fix and had to change batteries.
Most likely because by the time they got the error message, the battery has been already damaged by the overcharging and the battery had to be replaced.
Last edited by PorscheACC; 05-08-2024 at 03:34 PM.
Wife's 2019 Cayenne. At Porsche Dallas, A Park Place Dealership
August 2022, had the battery low warning yellow light. Car started easily and showed normal voltage. Took to dealer, they said all is well, "updated software via the recall"
On the receipt, it says, "WMJ9 Reprogramming gateway control unit (Battery sensor)
No Charge.
At the time, the mileage on the vehicle was 9,954.
Afterwards, I had been fairly regular about using a Noco LIP battery capable charger. Sometimes when I'd hook it up, it would show "green full" after 2-3 minutes. Sometimes it took 20 minutes. But I had been fairly regular about attaching it 2-3 days a week. Wife does not drive every day and obviously doesn't go very far when she does.
May 7th, 2024 - Yellow dash battery low warning light came on again. Ooops, I haven't put the charger on in at least a month. Her driving habits really haven't changed much. Now her vehicle has 11,333 miles on it. I put charger on it and within 20 minutes, device indicating green full battery. Took it to the dealer yesterday asking them, "Please just reset the warning light and I will be more attentive about putting it on the trickle charger." The service man said he understands, but let him run diagnostics on it. About an hour later, he told me the technician says the battery sensor unit has failed, they have a new battery in stock, and Porsche will cover the cost of the replacement even though the vehicle is out of warranty. He said Porsche knows this is a problem technology and they are not as robust as they thought they were going to be. I was stunned but obviously very pleased Porsche stepped up. I will be more reliable about putting on the trickle charger. The receipt states "Internal battery failure" - the sensor is integral part of the battery, so if the sensor fails, the entire assembly has to be replaced.
Sounds like the dealers have gotten the message form Porsche to take care of the problem. This way when the class action suit is filed, they can point to out of warranty service performed. Sounds like you have a good dealership to work with, It also sounds like Porsche has the battery supply issue solved as well.
The service technician could not tell me whether the battery sensor had been updated, or redesigned, etc. So, I will use the charger more often.
My sister also has a 2019 and she's never had the error. She drives everyday and has many miles on her Cayenne.
Is this really a problem with Cayennes that sit or are there others who drive 20 miles or more a day who are getting this error (sorry, easier to ask than look back through all the forum posts)?
I know a couple of people with 2019 Cayennes and they also have had the battery issue. I know that the on-board circuit on the battery can fail and then the battery must be replaced. The circuit shuts down the battery from what I have read. Your sister may just be one of the lucky ones. These batteries were supposed to have a 7-10 year life according to those who make these Lithium batteries.
04-06-2024, 07:40 AM
