Modifying a Cayenne (tune/software)
04-16-2019, 05:08 PM
#16
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
04-16-2019, 09:59 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
PTS, your S6 is awesome. I've never associated the word "overbuilt" with Audi. They always seemed a little spindly and artsy. Guess I need to rethink that.
How much peak boost are you running? Is your driveline stock? I can't imagine an S6 being able to handle that kind of torque without twisting various bits into pretzels. Again, I'm ready to be corrected. Please do! A buddy of mine and fellow SS owner dropped less than $5K on N/A mods for his 2016 SS (camshaft, headers, cat-back, a few other minor things -- he didn't want to take the easy route and strap on a supercharger from the LT4; driveline is way overbuilt Aussie-style, and fully stock), wrenched it all himself, and now runs mid- to high-10s at the Texas Motorplex @ 135 mph. (The SS is RWD, so traction off the line is the limiting factor. Your S6 would eat him up to 60'.) It's his daily driver. Amazing how much power can be had nowadays for cheap.
Also... love Nardo Grey. It's my favorite Audi color.
Finally: I've said from the start that based on Porsche's quoted 3.7 second zero to 60 time and the brand's history of underrating everything performance related, I'm thinking the Turbo actually rates closer to 600 horsepower at the crank, based on its curb weight of ~4800 pounds. I haven't seen any quarter-mile testing. It feels like a very low 12-second car to me.
Congratulations again on that Audi. It's spectacular. If we're smart, we will all defer to you on engine mods when you take delivery of your Turbo.
How much peak boost are you running? Is your driveline stock? I can't imagine an S6 being able to handle that kind of torque without twisting various bits into pretzels. Again, I'm ready to be corrected. Please do! A buddy of mine and fellow SS owner dropped less than $5K on N/A mods for his 2016 SS (camshaft, headers, cat-back, a few other minor things -- he didn't want to take the easy route and strap on a supercharger from the LT4; driveline is way overbuilt Aussie-style, and fully stock), wrenched it all himself, and now runs mid- to high-10s at the Texas Motorplex @ 135 mph. (The SS is RWD, so traction off the line is the limiting factor. Your S6 would eat him up to 60'.) It's his daily driver. Amazing how much power can be had nowadays for cheap.
Also... love Nardo Grey. It's my favorite Audi color.
Finally: I've said from the start that based on Porsche's quoted 3.7 second zero to 60 time and the brand's history of underrating everything performance related, I'm thinking the Turbo actually rates closer to 600 horsepower at the crank, based on its curb weight of ~4800 pounds. I haven't seen any quarter-mile testing. It feels like a very low 12-second car to me.
Congratulations again on that Audi. It's spectacular. If we're smart, we will all defer to you on engine mods when you take delivery of your Turbo.
04-16-2019, 11:32 PM
#18
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
PTS, your S6 is awesome. I've never associated the word "overbuilt" with Audi. They always seemed a little spindly and artsy. Guess I need to rethink that.
How much peak boost are you running? Is your driveline stock? I can't imagine an S6 being able to handle that kind of torque without twisting various bits into pretzels. Again, I'm ready to be corrected. Please do! A buddy of mine and fellow SS owner dropped less than $5K on N/A mods for his 2016 SS (camshaft, headers, cat-back, a few other minor things -- he didn't want to take the easy route and strap on a supercharger from the LT4; driveline is way overbuilt Aussie-style, and fully stock), wrenched it all himself, and now runs mid- to high-10s at the Texas Motorplex @ 135 mph. (The SS is RWD, so traction off the line is the limiting factor. Your S6 would eat him up to 60'.) It's his daily driver. Amazing how much power can be had nowadays for cheap.
Also... love Nardo Grey. It's my favorite Audi color.
Finally: I've said from the start that based on Porsche's quoted 3.7 second zero to 60 time and the brand's history of underrating everything performance related, I'm thinking the Turbo actually rates closer to 600 horsepower at the crank, based on its curb weight of ~4800 pounds. I haven't seen any quarter-mile testing. It feels like a very low 12-second car to me.
Congratulations again on that Audi. It's spectacular. If we're smart, we will all defer to you on engine mods when you take delivery of your Turbo.
How much peak boost are you running? Is your driveline stock? I can't imagine an S6 being able to handle that kind of torque without twisting various bits into pretzels. Again, I'm ready to be corrected. Please do! A buddy of mine and fellow SS owner dropped less than $5K on N/A mods for his 2016 SS (camshaft, headers, cat-back, a few other minor things -- he didn't want to take the easy route and strap on a supercharger from the LT4; driveline is way overbuilt Aussie-style, and fully stock), wrenched it all himself, and now runs mid- to high-10s at the Texas Motorplex @ 135 mph. (The SS is RWD, so traction off the line is the limiting factor. Your S6 would eat him up to 60'.) It's his daily driver. Amazing how much power can be had nowadays for cheap.
Also... love Nardo Grey. It's my favorite Audi color.
Finally: I've said from the start that based on Porsche's quoted 3.7 second zero to 60 time and the brand's history of underrating everything performance related, I'm thinking the Turbo actually rates closer to 600 horsepower at the crank, based on its curb weight of ~4800 pounds. I haven't seen any quarter-mile testing. It feels like a very low 12-second car to me.
Congratulations again on that Audi. It's spectacular. If we're smart, we will all defer to you on engine mods when you take delivery of your Turbo.
This 4.0T (as Audi dubs it) platform is extremely impressive. Peak boost is right around 24psi (very small turbos to increase efficiency and decrease lag). Here's some engine bay love. The carbon intake system is aftermarket but does little in the performance category. You can see the snails are valley mounted in the engine bay making them quite accessible for the swap.
Driveline is completely OEM and handles the power very well. The DSG (dual clutch) DL501 trans has never slipped once and I drive the hell out of this car. The weak link in the drivetrain are the axles, they can snap if utilizing launch control at these power levels (imagine holding revs at 5k and the clutches dumping 800+ ft/lbs instantly). But as seen in the track clip above, I don't activate launch control when stage 3 (rarely, it's a change your pants experience), I load the launch with the gas and brake so the revs build slightly before release. I've managed 0-60 in 2.7x several times this way, this car is absolutely insane off the dig, would give a 991 Turbo S a run for it's money.
But my "build" is extremely simple and straight forward, literally a few built ons. Upgraded Audi turbos, bigger intercooler, and an off-the-shelf APR ECU (engine) tune and TCU (transmission tune), which makes shifts even smoother and quicker to accommodate added power. Intake and exhaust are more for noise than performance. No fuel mods either. Two bolt-on mods and some software and this car drives like factory with 750hp, an extremely impressive platform.
I agree with your thoughts on Porsche figures and the Cayenne Turbo. My guess is 3.5-3.6 for 0-60 and 12.0-12.2 for 1/4 mile, insane for a factory SUV!
Here is the upgraded intercooler from AMS. Very OEM looking and fitment was direct bolt-on.
04-17-2019, 10:25 AM
#19
Burning Brakes
^^^
Wow!
If I had bigger ***** I'd mod my Panamera Turbo like that or similarly
Wow!
If I had bigger ***** I'd mod my Panamera Turbo like that or similarly
04-17-2019, 01:06 PM
#20
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
04-17-2019, 03:24 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
Heh. The good news is that the wife is generally supportive, and the credit card somewhat less so but more or less on board. The bigger issue for me is fear of mucking with the warranty. I know that some dealers look the other way, and that it also depends on what you do, who does the work, etc. etc. etc. but the fear would remain for me that something explodes and I'm on the hook for it...
04-17-2019, 04:29 PM
#22
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Heh. The good news is that the wife is generally supportive, and the credit card somewhat less so but more or less on board. The bigger issue for me is fear of mucking with the warranty. I know that some dealers look the other way, and that it also depends on what you do, who does the work, etc. etc. etc. but the fear would remain for me that something explodes and I'm on the hook for it...
Warranty issues from modifying is difficult to assess in that it's far from black and white, so much grey area. The brand of car, the model of car, the dealership you use for service, your service advisor, your technician, which modifications, etc etc.
My S6 is a C7 generation car which began production in 2013, in 2016 they had the facelift version, C7.5. Facelift model had a couple of tweaks here and there but the guts were the same. When I took delivery of my 2017, this gen car had been out on the streets for 4 years and after massive amounts of research, I knew what potential issues could come to the surface during ownership. There were minimal, and some were even addressed with the modifications I added to the car. Point being, the warranty risks were less important to me than say a brand new generation model to which I couldn't know potential issues.
That was my thought process in deciding to take the risk of modifying the car. The Cayenne Turbo I will assess differently given it's a new platform
04-18-2019, 10:03 AM
#23
Burning Brakes
Absolutely, that is my largest variable in consideration when I decide if I'm going to modify a car, and to what extent.
Warranty issues from modifying is difficult to assess in that it's far from black and white, so much grey area. The brand of car, the model of car, the dealership you use for service, your service advisor, your technician, which modifications, etc etc.
My S6 is a C7 generation car which began production in 2013, in 2016 they had the facelift version, C7.5. Facelift model had a couple of tweaks here and there but the guts were the same. When I took delivery of my 2017, this gen car had been out on the streets for 4 years and after massive amounts of research, I knew what potential issues could come to the surface during ownership. There were minimal, and some were even addressed with the modifications I added to the car. Point being, the warranty risks were less important to me than say a brand new generation model to which I couldn't know potential issues.
That was my thought process in deciding to take the risk of modifying the car. The Cayenne Turbo I will assess differently given it's a new platform
Warranty issues from modifying is difficult to assess in that it's far from black and white, so much grey area. The brand of car, the model of car, the dealership you use for service, your service advisor, your technician, which modifications, etc etc.
My S6 is a C7 generation car which began production in 2013, in 2016 they had the facelift version, C7.5. Facelift model had a couple of tweaks here and there but the guts were the same. When I took delivery of my 2017, this gen car had been out on the streets for 4 years and after massive amounts of research, I knew what potential issues could come to the surface during ownership. There were minimal, and some were even addressed with the modifications I added to the car. Point being, the warranty risks were less important to me than say a brand new generation model to which I couldn't know potential issues.
That was my thought process in deciding to take the risk of modifying the car. The Cayenne Turbo I will assess differently given it's a new platform
Hopefully all this kind of stuff will be well vetted by the braver among us
05-08-2021, 09:06 AM
#24
Turbo upgrade
I tend to never leave any of my cars completely factory, I prefer putting my own touches on them striving for an OEM+ theme.
Have my allocation secured for the new Coupé Turbo. Went and drove the regular Cayenne Turbo yesterday to get a feel for the car (to make sure the wife loved it, easy sell). Car is absolutely amazing overall, but I can feel the factory tuning/software severely limiting the twin turbo V8. I’m very familiar with this powerplant as its very similar to my Audi S6. With just a tune/software adjustment, this platform really wakes up.
I then had a conversation with our salesman about Porsche and how mod-friendly they tend to be with their customers. Having modified cars of many brands over the years, my experience is that it typically comes down to your relationship with your service advisor/technician/dealership, although the brand does have an impact (Audi is horrible, for example). He did say Porsche doesn’t tend to make a stink if you simply tune the car. When you start modifying tangibles that affect performance, you enter a gray area.
So my question, has anyone looked into software/tuning with this new gen of Cayenne? I only plan to tune the car, nothing beyond. Thanks in advance
Have my allocation secured for the new Coupé Turbo. Went and drove the regular Cayenne Turbo yesterday to get a feel for the car (to make sure the wife loved it, easy sell). Car is absolutely amazing overall, but I can feel the factory tuning/software severely limiting the twin turbo V8. I’m very familiar with this powerplant as its very similar to my Audi S6. With just a tune/software adjustment, this platform really wakes up.
I then had a conversation with our salesman about Porsche and how mod-friendly they tend to be with their customers. Having modified cars of many brands over the years, my experience is that it typically comes down to your relationship with your service advisor/technician/dealership, although the brand does have an impact (Audi is horrible, for example). He did say Porsche doesn’t tend to make a stink if you simply tune the car. When you start modifying tangibles that affect performance, you enter a gray area.
So my question, has anyone looked into software/tuning with this new gen of Cayenne? I only plan to tune the car, nothing beyond. Thanks in advance
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George from MD (10-14-2021)
05-08-2021, 10:44 AM
#25
Just curious- how did you determine that with all of Porsche's engineering, technical, racing and all together incredible proven record of highly complex engine work that they're "severely limiting the twin turbo v-8" which is creating enormous power for its displacement and in general?
05-08-2021, 11:57 AM
#26
Rennlist Member
Very good point, icemang. I’ll reiterate what I said in a similar post:
Good point regarding corporate detuning, Icemang. I’m a pilot with a background in R&D and flew a lot of test flights in aircraft utilizing de-rated power plants over the years. They are capable of safely operating at higher power.
Here’s a good example from a turbine engine I’m familiar with: The engine manufacturer certified the engine’s maximum continuous temperature (a measure of power output) to 779 degrees Celsius. It would literally run at this temperature all day long as certified by the manufacturer to the FAA. The aircraft manufacturer reduced this to 755 degrees for warranty purposes as noted in the operators manual. Fair enough. However, a large fleet operator further lowered it to 738 degrees “for good measure”. Unaware of all the previous de-ratings to “extend the life off the engine,” tribal lore eventually dictated that the pilots use 700 degrees max continuous - you guessed it - “to extend the life of the engine”. Blind leading the blind.
These aircraft, which were underpowered to begin with, were being operated at only 90% of rated power due to multiple levels of de-rating and ignorance of thermodynamics. VAG is a large, multilevel organization. How many times has this engine been de-rated for warranty and ignorant “good measure”?
Good point regarding corporate detuning, Icemang. I’m a pilot with a background in R&D and flew a lot of test flights in aircraft utilizing de-rated power plants over the years. They are capable of safely operating at higher power.
Here’s a good example from a turbine engine I’m familiar with: The engine manufacturer certified the engine’s maximum continuous temperature (a measure of power output) to 779 degrees Celsius. It would literally run at this temperature all day long as certified by the manufacturer to the FAA. The aircraft manufacturer reduced this to 755 degrees for warranty purposes as noted in the operators manual. Fair enough. However, a large fleet operator further lowered it to 738 degrees “for good measure”. Unaware of all the previous de-ratings to “extend the life off the engine,” tribal lore eventually dictated that the pilots use 700 degrees max continuous - you guessed it - “to extend the life of the engine”. Blind leading the blind.
These aircraft, which were underpowered to begin with, were being operated at only 90% of rated power due to multiple levels of de-rating and ignorance of thermodynamics. VAG is a large, multilevel organization. How many times has this engine been de-rated for warranty and ignorant “good measure”?
05-10-2021, 09:00 PM
#27
I agree with the warranty claims. However, I also think they try to find a balance between power and economy and make sure it slots into its trim level. The Urus is rated for 12/17mpg and uses the same engine. I realize the Cayenne Turbo doesn’t get much better fuel economy but maybe getting a little more range factored into the equation and also ensuring the big daddy turbo s was still a faster machine.
05-10-2021, 09:59 PM
#28
There's no doubt in my mind that slotting for trim level plays a part in these decisions. Economy less so I think. The same engine moving the same weight and aerodynamics down the highway at the same speed will use pretty much the same gas no matter what output is available.
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NelsonLee (05-11-2021)
10-13-2021, 04:49 PM
#29
What's the verdict finally ?
Who's the best for a 2021 Cayenne 4.0, tune ?
Who's the best for a 2021 Cayenne 4.0, tune ?