SoundsoftheSuburbs

Hello! Should my parents buy back my 2017 Cayenne S? I rather abruptly sold my 2017 Cayenne S a week ago to a dealership for the sake of downsizing my stable. While I was in the process and committed, my parents expressed interest in purchasing it back from the dealership. My Cayenne S has a bad CarFax due to two accidents I was party to. All of the repairs were flawless and one of them was even shared on this forum. I told them not to buy it for any kind of inflated price. However, it looks like the stealership, where one of them already made an appointment to buy it, wants a 28% premium on what they paid me for the vehicle.

My parents are 49 and 70. My dad uses a wheelchair and needs space for it and the Cayenne definitely fits it, albeit snuggly. I estimate they probably drive about 6000-8000 miles per year and the CS is at 50k miles right now. My warranty ended near the end of 2021 and I have only spent $800 on repairs, to be honest. I've gone the FCP Euro route for the expendables (brake pads, all four rotors, sensors, wipers, cabin filter, spark plugs, and coolant) and spent $851 in 2022. Obviously, with FCP's guarantee, those parts expenses will be minimized. Years prior, I did not actually have to do anything and it was under factory warranty. Since I use an independent shop for maintenance (not repairs yet), I've only spent $1,460 on oil changes and labor since I started tracking in 2019. I also replaced two tires for $602 with installation. In summary, less than $1k per year in maintenance items and $800 in repairs in 2022.

My parents plan to keep their next vehicle for 5-6 additional years and 100k-120k miles. My dad does not drive anymore (he previously drove a Q8, Mercedes GL, and various BMW 5-series) and my step-mom currently drives, I kid you not, a Toyota Yaris. My dad is convinced that he will drive again in the future, but I am not sure how much she is actually concerned with the performance of their next vehicle given what she is used to. I have floated the VW Atlas Cross Sport or a slightly newer CPO European SUV like an XC90 or LR Discovery that are in their price range as potentially more economical. However, I'm not entirely convinced that the Cayenne is actually significantly more expensive on the maintenance and repairs front because since the warranty ended, I've only had one issue and it was $800. There were many more frequent repairs required during the warranty period from the transfer case to the headlight assembly to an oil leak to the gas tank. So...I want some opinions from those with experience owning the Cayenne outside of the warranty period and how reliable the vehicle actually is as it enters its middle-age period. Should I dissuade them or just help them negotiate the best deal to get the car back?

leftlane

I have a 14 GTS that has been out of warranty forever and I just recently had my first repair - a split hose for coolant. Other than that it has been rock solid. However - no chance I could ever live with paying 28% more a week later - throw the dealer an offer of $1k more than they paid you and see what they say. They will tell you to pound sand, so move on to something else. I would want my parents in a low maintenance, low cost car with warranty for sure - not the LR!!!

jaustin

28% more I'd say pass. I would push for the VW as it will be cheaper and probably covered under warranty.

SoundsoftheSuburbs

From what seeing, I'm thinking they could do a CPO 2022 Atlas Cross Sport V6 SEL (top trim level) and get the VW extended CPO warranty giving them an extra year or two up to 74k miles for a total of 5 years of coverage. This seems like one of the longest possible combinations at their price point (I want them to be under $45,000) for a European brand. I test-drove a regular Atlas yesterday and its handling was disappointing, to say the least. I was kind of taken aback. They would also have to end up buying the brakes and expendables again at full price later on.

On the other hand, even if the CS was bought back for a reasonable price, I would still be very disappointed if something major happened. They did just spend $1,600 repairing the windshield wipers on the Yaris with over 200k miles that can't be worth more than $500. I think their perception of reasonable is distorted and I was a little alarmed that an appointment had been made. I'm quite conflicted.

lml999

@SoundsoftheSuburbs If this were an arms-length transaction...ie it wasn't your CS in question, would they be considering a Cayenne? *Should* they be considering a Cayenne?

My guess is that they like the *idea* of owning your car...but it probably isn't the right vehicle for them. Steer them towards a Honda or Lexus SUV with all the lane change warning goodies and high reliability. They will thank you in the long run.

Needsdecaf

The Cayenne is WAY more expensive to repair out of warranty. Door lock actuator cost $800 with labor, potential leaks, transfer case, etc. Don’t buy your dad and step mom a ticking time bkmb that’s already been in two accidents. Sorry, just not smart at all.

if your dad has a wheelchair, they just face lifted the Atlas. The cross coupe has an ENORMOUS trunk which will do great. Plenty of warranty, still German. Go that route.

SoundsoftheSuburbs

Excellent points and question. I am not sure the step-mom even knows what a Porsche is, but she knows she liked riding in it at Christmastime when the AMG decided it wasn't going to continue on the trip and became stranded on the side of the road...that car is still sitting in the shop to this day. I believe that she is more excited about the prospect of a new and working car. But, I do also believe that the fact that it is my vehicle and a known quantity has fueled both of their enthusiasm.

My father is a bit different. My father told me point blank last week, "I have a certain panache...I cannot be seen in a Ford or Hyundai." My dad's first car was a Cadillac Seville and he's only had BMWs, Mercedes, and an Audi since. I would not call him a 'car guy,' but he is a car snob. He's been carless since 2020, following an illness. European brand is a prerequisite because they only trust one mechanic who refuses to work on domestic and Asian brands. Collectively we also like FCP Euro and the guarantee since I do a fair amount of DIY. They both still work part-time, but I would describe them as semi-retired. Part of what has soured her on the ridiculously worn Yaris is the cost of maintenance—approximately $2,000 in 2022. I don't really want them to trade that frustration for similar expenses on a car that carries a payment. I do want him to be happy as he is in his next phase and into his 70s.

Fortunately, my Cayenne has ACC, blind spot monitoring, CarPlay, a heated steering wheel, etc. that I think they need and will appreciate too. But, I'm getting the impression that my fellow Rennlisters think that this car is going to be problematic as it ages?

lml999

@SoundsoftheSuburbs "*is* going to be problematic? You listed a bunch of (typical) stuff that was covered under warranty, and you're in a lull right now. You note that you've done some DIY...but what happens if your job takes you out of town and the car needs attention.

So the Yaris needed some money at 200K miles. That car owes her nothing.

Let them make their own choice, uncolored by your prior ownership of a specific vehicle. They will end up paying a premium to buy it back, and will pay the Porsche tax on it for a while.

New Atlas might be the way to go, or a CPO Audi Q5 (or Q7 if they need the room).

leftlane

How much do you really think you are saving on parts thru FCP relative to the total overall costs? Yeah it’s nice, but that shouldn’t be a determining factor here, or a very minor one anyway. There will be much bigger bills up front and on other stuff versus getting something newer without accidents and expensive maintenance and repairs. I think the lifetime parts replacement is coloring your view way too much.

RAudi Driver

Thinking on another level. Yes this thread has a lot of factors in play and it's not about your parents buying your Cayenne back, which should never be done. You and that car broke up, you don't get back together even at the same price you sold it for.

I'm taking it as pops is the 70 year old and mom's is the 50, good going pops! If he uses a wheelchair but thinks he's going to be driving again well, I don't know if he needs a wheelchair or just wants a wheelchair. All these factors that you've thrown into the equation, dad in wheelchair, parents not really into the auto game and paying more for wiper repair than the car is worth, tells me that you might want to consider talking with them and asking if you can be their transportation guardian, aka Auto Power of Attorney. Speak with them and help them choose the right vehicle for them. then once that vehicle is chosen, help them find the right one and absolutely help them close that deal as the elderly are being scammed out of all their money every second of the day.

If I was in a wheelchair, I'd want a Toyota Sienna or Honda Odyssey minivan..... Period. They aren't racing around they canyons and that type of vehicle will make their lives so incredibly easy and maintenance free, it's kinda a no brainer. I couldn't imaging your mom constantly folding up and throwing that chair in to the truck every time they went somewhere. That can get tiring real quick.


Oh, nice move putting the word "Crazy" in your title. This thread is going to get read by everyone. I'll have to put that in all my titles going forward.

SoundsoftheSuburbs

The Yaris is in complete disrepair and having been in it on the subzero and snowy evening, I'm not sure how she is driving it. It's not even compliant. Brake lights on, taillamps not working, bad bearings, and who knows what else. Oh, and apparently a missing title.

My dad has psychological issues with being wheelchair-bound that have nothing to do with the car, unfortunately. He largely refuses to utilize senior transit or Uber/Lyft handicapped vehicles due to ego. Less than five years ago, he was driving an E39 with a 6-speed manual. He thinks he is supposed to be that person again. Right now, both of us share responsibility for transporting him around (a huge toll on me as I have to traverse Chicago's downtown to reach him during rush hours as we live and work on opposite sides). Even though she's not even 5 feet tall, she folds up the chair just as I do—multiple times most days!

What items are those past 50k miles seeing? Maybe I can give them a list of concerns and costs? Right now, I worry I will come across to him, especially, as a fearmonger. We could also go through the motions on Wednesday and have them take it to our mechanic for a pre-purchase inspection and a lecture.

Needsdecaf

Sorry you're having to deal with this. Loss of independence by Seniors is a very tough pill to swallow. My dad had a stroke in summer '21 at the age of 73 and while he kept most of his strength and has no paralysis, it did rob him of about 50-70% of his vision, which means no driving and he needs assistance taking care of himself (widower). It took me over a year to get him into an independent / progressive living facility near me vs. where he has lived his whole life in NY. Overall he's handled the transition as well as he has been able to, but it's been rough on me (only child).

I feel your position, but the Cayenne is just not the vehicle for them. These cars do cost to keep running. Sunroof and AC drains clog, transfer cases can go, door lock actuators go bad, etc, etc. Just skim through the first 10 pages of this forum and you'll see some pretty common problems. And they all cost $$$. Nothing is cheap. I mean, I'm assuming finances are somewhat of an issue for them or you wouldn't be asking; if they are loaded by all means buy him what he wants. But I'd steer him toward something newer, less maintenance heavy, more reliable. Hell, even oil changes at a dealer are stupid $$. If you can convince him that those nice shiny Lexuses are just as good as the European brands, you'd really be making a good move.

Best of luck. Do what you need to do to get him off this path.

lml999

If this is how she takes care of the Yaris, a Porsche will be an absolute nightmare for her (and for you). Sounds like she really needs another Japanese vehicle that can be neglected without major trauma.

I get this. I had to talk my dad out of driving five years ago, and he willingly handed over the keys after acknowledging that he was no longer a safe driver.

Now...getting him out of his wheelchair and into the Cayenne is a bit of a struggle. Find a vehicle where this process is easier.

Reliability and ease of moving between car and wheelchair are your only priorities.

SSDVC

I'd get them a Subaru Cross Trek. My wife drives one (she is handicapped with leg function issues and the height is perfect) has a very heavy foot (both on the gas and the brakes) and we got 74,500 on the original set of tires and 84,000 on the brakes. And both could have gone a bit longer. Slightly used they are a good deal, easy to enter and exit, fairly reliable and maintenance isn't all that bad either.

SoundsoftheSuburbs

We talked it over for hours last night. My father was more adamant than I realized about trying to buy it back. We agreed that no more than a 10% premium would be paid to get it back and that other options should be considered. His other options to consider are to go to two other local Porsche dealerships to find her another one or to go get "a Range Rover or a Volvo."

She has absolutely no idea what a Porsche even is based on the conversation. She initially said she favored something with a warranty, but quickly quieted and indicated that she wanted whatever my dad wants. We also agreed that they would call me to come to the dealership before finalizing anything.