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(history)
Wife was driving. High-speed radiator fans came on just driving around town.
She noticed and stopped (and facetimed the coolant guages video to me showing 255°F.)
Coolant reservoir at very top (2 inches above max level)
We told Dealer about it, towed car to dealer 40miles away.
We had owned it 4 days, 200 miles.
Dealer saw no codes because my wife stopped due to noticing high guage readings.
Dealer ordered a new coolant tank and replaced it.
In my simple mind (I understand cars very well....) there are more straightforward ways to correct coolant level and tanks don't cause temperature control problems but I'm not a dealer tech.
This took about 5 days and they had no service loaner available - not what they said at time of sale.
Got the car back, and it overheated immediately, wife noticed, this time called me.
We concluded to keep driving until the car tells her to stop.
Which it told her to "Park the car and stop engine".
Coolant again 2 inches past max fill, and even dripping on the ground.
This time she had it towed to the dealer and had my daughter come pick her up, because again dealer has "no loaner" for us.
Dealer now concludes it needs a thermostat replacement, so they ordered one.
Several days in the shop, as before. But this time they got us a loaner car.
Whoopedoo, a 2020 with 1,000 miles!
Then on "pickup day" dealer says they want to change the thermostat housing, and need to order one, so it will be several more days.
Since our purchase Nov 4th, we've driven this car about 220 miles, where 120 miles is to/from the dealer service (and two tows).
Some of these miles were absolutely wonderful, Cayenne is a wonderful car and we are totally set on the Cayenne, but a little worried about the dealer.
The dealer told us that this car was not CPO'd because it was such low miles (22k).
I want to know if it was not CPO'd because Porsche declined to CPO this car.
I want the Dealer to either CPO our car, or unwind this purchase and I'll go look for a different Cayenne that has CPO.
Dealer is saying my __only option__ is to trade it in on a different car?
I haven't even asked how much of a loss that will be, as it's a total gain for the dealer that they do not deserve, nor do we.
And I have not entertained the notion of continuing business with this dealer.
We have barely even used this car since Nov 4th and cannot imagine the worry of going on a trip or something.
Buying a premium car that you can't leave town in, is no fun.
A different Cayenne is the answer for us.
Does anyone have tips how I can unwind this deal?
Is the only way to get out of this, to start talking to an attorney?
I don’t want to comment on your parade but you think it’s only going to get better? This is what I would do if I were you but you ain’t me.
https://www.atg.wa.gov/lemon-law www.bbb.org
file a complaint with PCNA. Tell them you want a credit for amount you paid and want another vehicle. Many car dealerships offer 7 day money back guarantees. Www.Tesla.com
Or continue to put up with the abuse. Problem could be the dealership as well but at this point do you want to continue pursue justice?
I don’t want to comment on your parade but you think it’s only going to get better? This is what I would do if I were you but you ain’t me.
https://www.atg.wa.gov/lemon-law www.bbb.org
file a complaint with PCNA. Tell them you want a credit for amount you paid and want another vehicle. Many car dealerships offer 7 day money back guarantees. Www.Tesla.com
Or continue to put up with the abuse. Problem could be the dealership as well but at this point do you want to continue pursue justice?
my deep apologies to the fanboys.
It certainly is worth checking about a lemon-law, but I've never heard of one that covers a used car, even one still under factory warranty. It will be a surprise if it is covered in some manner. And while some dealerships (Carvana?) do offer 7 day "trial" periods with money-back, I think unless that is specified in the sales papers it's simply not happening (I have some experience with this 2 Cayennes back).
The dealer at this point is doing what I suggested in Post #5. It should have been done the 2nd time the car returned to them. Dunno why they're replacing the thermostat housing, but perhaps they feel is may be causing the thermostat to bind. It seems they're now taking this seriously - and I'd let them have this one final chance to fix it before going all ballistic at them.
But - maybe that's just me. I had a coolant leak on the first Cayenne I owned - took a full year of monthly visits to Porsche before they solved it. I didn't mind - I was retired - the drive wasn't bad and they always gave me amusing loaners. Sometimes they'd drive to my house with a loaner and pick the car up. Turned out to be a defective casting in the coolant cross-over bridge on the back of the heads that let a tiny stream weep out. New bridge and it was fixed. I can understand the pressure the OP is under since this is his wife's car and she probably has lost confidence in it. I'd suggest after getting it back, swap cars for a week - make sure it doesn't fail when she's driving it.
It certainly is worth checking about a lemon-law, but I've never heard of one that covers a used car, even one still under factory warranty. It will be a surprise if it is covered in some manner. And while some dealerships (Carvana?) do offer 7 day "trial" periods with money-back, I think unless that is specified in the sales papers it's simply not happening (I have some experience with this 2 Cayennes back).
The dealer at this point is doing what I suggested in Post #5. It should have been done the 2nd time the car returned to them. Dunno why they're replacing the thermostat housing, but perhaps they feel is may be causing the thermostat to bind. It seems they're now taking this seriously - and I'd let them have this one final chance to fix it before going all ballistic at them.
But - maybe that's just me. I had a coolant leak on the first Cayenne I owned - took a full year of monthly visits to Porsche before they solved it. I didn't mind - I was retired - the drive wasn't bad and they always gave me amusing loaners. Sometimes they'd drive to my house with a loaner and pick the car up. Turned out to be a defective casting in the coolant cross-over bridge on the back of the heads that let a tiny stream weep out. New bridge and it was fixed. I can understand the pressure the OP is under since this is his wife's car and she probably has lost confidence in it. I'd suggest after getting it back, swap cars for a week - make sure it doesn't fail when she's driving it.
Welp, you went through it maybe he can go through it as well. This too shall pass...
Great, the Rennlist ruiners have crawled from politics and controversy to the Cayenne form...
Only if people keep bringing it up.
Originally Posted by Chaos
My 11 does the gauge jump red warning on start up but quickly drops down to normal.Sending unit I guess.
Can we assume you've checked the level? There is no "sending unit" - there are two pins that stick into the coolant neck. When they're submerged the circuit is complete and the systems knows the level is OK. If they're not submerged the coolant level warning will show at startup. If you take off the cap with a cold engine - are the pins submerged? Probably not - which means you want to add a bit of distilled water.
(history)
Wife was driving. High-speed radiator fans came on just driving around town.
She noticed and stopped (and facetimed the coolant guages video to me showing 255°F.)
Coolant reservoir at very top (2 inches above max level)
We told Dealer about it, towed car to dealer 40miles away.
We had owned it 4 days, 200 miles.
Dealer saw no codes because my wife stopped due to noticing high guage readings.
Dealer ordered a new coolant tank and replaced it.
In my simple mind (I understand cars very well....) there are more straightforward ways to correct coolant level and tanks don't cause temperature control problems but I'm not a dealer tech.
This took about 5 days and they had no service loaner available - not what they said at time of sale.
Got the car back, and it overheated immediately, wife noticed, this time called me.
We concluded to keep driving until the car tells her to stop.
Which it told her to "Park the car and stop engine" while we talked.
Coolant again 2 inches past max fill, and even dripping on the ground. Unknown where from though.
Had it towed to the dealer and had my daughter came to pick her up.
Dealer now concludes it needs a thermostat replacement, so they ordered one.
Several days in the shop, as before. But this time they got us a service loaner.
Whoopedoo, a 2020 with 1,000 miles!
Then on "pickup day" dealer says they want to change the thermostat housing, and need to order one, so it will be several more days.
Since our purchase Nov 4th, we've driven this car about 220 miles, where 120 miles is to/from the dealer service (and two tows).
Some of these miles were absolutely wonderful, Cayenne is a wonderful car and we are totally set on the Cayenne, but a little worried about the dealer.
The dealer told us that this car was not CPO'd because it was such low miles (22k).
I want to know if it was not CPO'd because Porsche declined to CPO this car.
I want the Dealer to either CPO our car, or unwind this purchase and I'll go look for a different Cayenne that has CPO.
Dealer is saying my __only option__ is to trade it in on a different car?
I haven't even asked how much of a loss that will be, as it's a total gain for the dealer that they do not deserve, nor do we.
And I have not entertained the notion of continuing business with this dealer.
We have barely even used this car since Nov 4th and cannot imagine the worry of going on a trip or something.
Buying a premium car that you can't leave town in, is no fun.
A different Cayenne is the answer for us.
Does anyone have tips how I can unwind this deal?
Is the only way to get out of this, to start talking to an attorney?
Unbelievable incompetence from this dealer. I also don't get the strategy of buying an extended warranty but not wanting to use it, although that's another topic altogether.
Assuming this car is still under the factory warranty? Does WA state cover used cars under their lemon laws? That should be easy to research, or just google your nearest lemon law attorney and they should be able to tell you right away. I don't think you ever stated whether you bought this car from a Porsche dealer or another brand? It's unlikely that whoever sold you the car is going to take it back now, unless they are compelled to do so by law, a lawsuit, or threat of a lawsuit.
Also, any Porsche dealer can pull up the warranty history on the car and tell you if this is a repeat complaint.
Unbelievable incompetence from this dealer. I also don't get the strategy of buying an extended warranty but not wanting to use it, although that's another topic altogether.
Assuming this car is still under the factory warranty? Does WA state cover used cars under their lemon laws? That should be easy to research, or just google your nearest lemon law attorney and they should be able to tell you right away. I don't think you ever stated whether you bought this car from a Porsche dealer or another brand? It's unlikely that whoever sold you the car is going to take it back now, unless they are compelled to do so by law, a lawsuit, or threat of a lawsuit.
Also, any Porsche dealer can pull up the warranty history on the car and tell you if this is a repeat complaint.
I think you missed a few things in the thread:
1. It was bought from a Porsche dealer who claimed they wouldn't CPO it because it had too low mileage (BS..)
2. It's been suggested he check the law on used-car lemon laws, but I'd put money on lemon-laws not applying to any used vehicle.
And we haven't heard back from the OP since the dealer actually appears to be trying to fix it (new thermo & housing..) Hopefully we do.
1. It was bought from a Porsche dealer who claimed they wouldn't CPO it because it had too low mileage (BS..)
2. It's been suggested he check the law on used-car lemon laws, but I'd put money on lemon-laws not applying to any used vehicle.
And we haven't heard back from the OP since the dealer actually appears to be trying to fix it (new thermo & housing..) Hopefully we do.
Noticed #1 but didn't think it was relevant since OP bought the car knowing it wasn't CPOd. As for #2, in CA lemon laws apply to used car sales as well, as long as the car is still under the original/factory new car warranty. Not sure what the laws are like in WA, hence why the OP would be best served to look into it.
Noticed #1 but didn't think it was relevant since OP bought the car knowing it wasn't CPOd.
To quote your post:
Originally Posted by lawrence1
I don't think you ever stated whether you bought this car from a Porsche dealer or another brand?
Your words. And the significance of that is - why didn't the dealer CPO it? They normally make more in additional markup than the CPO costs them, unless the car has some serious CPO issues
Last edited by deilenberger; 12-03-2020 at 07:58 PM.
You can return a used car that develops problems that cannot be fixed to the manufacturer for a replacement or repurchase, under Washington state's lemon law. You must have made at least of four attempts to repair your defective vehicle to qualify your car as a lemon. Also, this must be within your warranty period.
And in further writings on the Washington State law the "warranty" must be the original manufacturer's warranty - which I believe this car is still covered under. SO - how many times has it been to the dealer?
Sorry I got you all interested, and helping----- then left you hanging.
I just got fed up with this problem, and put my mind to other things for awhile.
I am a pretty good 'car tester' but I don't enjoy spending so much money to become a "premium car tester" on my own car.
We have had this car only 550 miles since Nov 4
200 of those miles are the five 40 miles trips to & from the dealer
83 miles was the tech test-driving it.
We haven't driven it much.
But of course when we did -- it was wonderful to drive a Cayenne.
I looked at the car-fax and from the previous owners (Gold Coast Porsche, in NY) service, it said" Replaced front brake rotor, and "flushed coolant" so I thought,, "why?"
It was about 20,651 miles ---- shortly before we bought the car at 22,024 miles.
I called Gold Coast Porsche, and asked to speak to service and asked why they had to change the coolant.
He looked thru the notes and saw that the waterpump was replaced.
Well yeah, you would have to mess with the coolant.
OK so they're listing fluid changes, but able to keep mechanical issues off CARFAX?
Did you guys know that?
That Porsche has a way of excluding such details from CarFAX?
Well it was more of an omission than a lie.
But that's truth in 2020, right?
Originally Posted by lawrence1
I also don't get the strategy of buying an extended warranty but not wanting to use it.
....I don't look forward to using my life insurance either.😉
But Yes Lawrence1 I am very interested in reading the true and complete history.
How can I get the full history from Porsche?
I want to know if Porsche declined to CPO it.
So we got the car back with the new thermostat and the new housing.
I told them I wanted to see the thermostat and the housing, and they said they'd have the parts ready for viewing when I arrived.
When I got there, the service writer said the tech was "out for the day" and had set the parts somewhere unknown,,,,,,, so I wasn't going to be able to see them.
The top service manager was then called in, and he said "no, the guy's here" and called the tech out to talk to us.
We walked out to the shop and the tech had "the thermostat" but couldn't show me the housing.
He said that Porsche needed it for the warranty claim, and it had already gone away or something. In a matter of a few hours.
I can't say much about the thermostat that they did show to me, and I doubt anyone could.
But I wanted to how the housing could have been broken, and try to guess why the previous tech proceeded to bolt it onto the engine.
But they couldn't show me the housing.
Hmmm.
I suspect it the assembly error was obvious and they didn't want me to see that my car had been ham-fisted.
Well ---- we took the car home Dec 2.
Dec 18 it overheated again.
Following the orders from the car (Stop engine to cool down) she had to stop 5 times to get 2 or 3 miles back home.
It's been driven 211 miles since the thermostat+housing replacement.
So Porsche sent a towtruck to pick up the car and its back at Tacoma Porsche now.
This time they had a loaner delivered to us within 3 hours, before the towtruck even arrived.
Its a nice a '20 Macan. But I want a reliable Cayenne of my own.
Actually I want my money back, simple as that; and I'll go find a different Cayenne.
We vacuumed the car, and removed all of our belongings before the towtruck came.
I clipped both keyfobs together, and put them in the cup holder.
It's a very nice, 22k mile car, but it's our preference to NOT take this Cayenne home ---- again.
I want a CPO car, not one that's just "such low miles it didn't really need CPO"
So that's where we're at.
Sorry to lay a bummer on you guys.
There are bigger bummers out there.
But we just got into this one and we want out quickly.
11-27-2020, 03:43 PM
