For audiophiles only
10-25-2020, 10:32 PM
#16
On a used vehicle the Burmester may not make that much difference in price - I've always upgraded audio systems in my cars, but haven't felt a need to do so in the Cayenne Burmester.
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Monetizer (02-24-2023)
10-25-2020, 11:40 PM
#17
So what is it specifically that makes the Bose that bad? Its been mentioned upgrading the tweeters with some ferrari tweeters, but I'm assuming its would take more than that. Bass can be upgraded somewhat easy, but upgrading mid range can be a lot of work.
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Andrew Medina (10-25-2020)
10-26-2020, 12:11 AM
#18
I am an audiophile, I have a very expensive turntable setup to rock out on my Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, 70s, and modern albums. I also play many musical instruments. I have installed very high end stereo systems in my cars over the years. My cayenne GTS has a Burnester system. The Burmester system provides truly outstanding sound quality. Go look up how much it costs to order a new burmester system in your home. Comparing Burmester to Bose is like comparing a Prius to a Ferrari.
Also understand your audio source is very important for excellent sound quality. I have played recorded vinyl records in my GTS and the experience is comparable to my home system with the only exception of intense low bass from my home system.
My home system has 16 speakers with 2 x 18” subwoofers and 2 x 15” subwoofers.
The bass is far superior in my home for obvious reasons however the sound quality is compatible between both systems.
Sent on my iPhone
Steve Lyons
Last edited by SteveLyons; 10-26-2020 at 12:31 AM.
10-26-2020, 02:17 AM
#19
My comment might get unwanted attention however consider Bose is also manufacturer installed in Mazdas and other cars within the Mazda price point. Bose is a good system however they tend to be more in the commodity market from a price point and sound quality perspective versus the high end audiophile market.
I am an audiophile, I have a very expensive turntable setup to rock out on my Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, 70s, and modern albums. I also play many musical instruments. I have installed very high end stereo systems in my cars over the years. My cayenne GTS has a Burnester system. The Burmester system provides truly outstanding sound quality. Go look up how much it costs to order a new burmester system in your home. Comparing Burmester to Bose is like comparing a Prius to a Ferrari.
Also understand your audio source is very important for excellent sound quality. I have played recorded vinyl records in my GTS and the experience is comparable to my home system with the only exception of intense low bass from my home system.
My home system has 16 speakers with 2 x 18” subwoofers and 2 x 15” subwoofers.
The bass is far superior in my home for obvious reasons however the sound quality is compatible between both systems.
Sent on my iPhone
Steve Lyons
I am an audiophile, I have a very expensive turntable setup to rock out on my Pink Floyd, Zeppelin, 70s, and modern albums. I also play many musical instruments. I have installed very high end stereo systems in my cars over the years. My cayenne GTS has a Burnester system. The Burmester system provides truly outstanding sound quality. Go look up how much it costs to order a new burmester system in your home. Comparing Burmester to Bose is like comparing a Prius to a Ferrari.
Also understand your audio source is very important for excellent sound quality. I have played recorded vinyl records in my GTS and the experience is comparable to my home system with the only exception of intense low bass from my home system.
My home system has 16 speakers with 2 x 18” subwoofers and 2 x 15” subwoofers.
The bass is far superior in my home for obvious reasons however the sound quality is compatible between both systems.
Sent on my iPhone
Steve Lyons
I wasn't really looking for an explanation on where Bose stands in the market place relative to other manufacturers, or the cost of the burmester, which everyone knows is expensive, or information on your home stereo system, which I'm sure is totally rad, but more just information on where the Bose falls short. Is it lacking on low end, which is common for most cars, but can be addressed? Does it sounds under powered and flat? Is it lacking in definition? Does it sound OK until the volume is raised a little and then it starts to distort? Is it all of those things? Is it something different?
Last edited by dmppdx; 10-26-2020 at 02:19 AM.
10-26-2020, 07:09 AM
#20
Originally Posted by dmppdx
I wasn't really looking for an explanation on where Bose stands in the market place relative to other manufacturers, or the cost of the burmester, which everyone knows is expensive, or information on your home stereo system, which I'm sure is totally rad, but more just information on where the Bose falls short. Is it lacking on low end, which is common for most cars, but can be addressed? Does it sounds under powered and flat? Is it lacking in definition? Does it sound OK until the volume is raised a little and then it starts to distort? Is it all of those things? Is it something different?
The old saying, no highs, no lows must be Bose, is an accurate phrase for the cayenne Bose system.
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Eskimo1 (10-28-2020)
10-26-2020, 11:03 AM
#21
The treble is terrible. Sounds similar to tin can. The bass is weak and hallow. The 120-250hz range is boosted which makes things boomy and lazy. The midrange is fat and over stated. When volume is increased, everything is attenuated to the same level, and at low volume, the bass is over stated.
The old saying, no highs, no lows must be Bose, is an accurate phrase for the cayenne Bose system.
The old saying, no highs, no lows must be Bose, is an accurate phrase for the cayenne Bose system.
I really don’t know how else to explain the experience between the two systems without comparing to a known reference baseline, which is what I attempted to do with my response to your question.
Cwheeler is spot on for sound quality. If you want background noise while driving, do not really care about super high quality output from your audio system, or would rather listen to the engine note then Bose is perfect in my opinion. Burmester provides more of a total immersion sound experience when compared to Bose.
I have several friends with 911s, Caymans, and Boxters with the Bose system. Bose is perfect for their cars because they all would rather hear the engine notes.
However all of the responses in this thread are subjective as there are no technical data points to compare the two systems and even if you pull the technical data your experience could be subjectively different to someone else’s experience to the point where the difference in sound quality does or does not matter between the two systems.
My advice to anyone asking these types of questions would be to go listen to both systems and you come to the conclusion on which system you believe is better suited for you.
This thread reminds me of wine threads where the members compare various wineries, regions, countries, years etc.. The reality is it is all subjective to your preferences.
Last edited by SteveLyons; 10-26-2020 at 11:14 AM.
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Leadfoot_mf (11-01-2020)
10-26-2020, 01:04 PM
#22
That does remind me....the best car audio system (not custom, but came with the car) I can recall was a Nakamichi on a Lexus LS400. The sound was good. bass had some detail, decent soundstage. Maybe Lexus was motivated back then, because it was new, and they had to compete with established luxury brands.
The Bose is "OK", its about a 7 to a 8 (on a good day). If you are an audiophile, it is going to leave you with wanting more for sure. Strangely, I do find it quite a bit better in my 958.2 vs my 958.1. It might be because I have the leather on the door panels adding some more damping? I would say the frustrating thing about the Bose is that they don't have an equalizer... This is would really help it out.
If you are looking for a Turbo, they come up often with the Burmester, whereas the relative rarity of the Turbo S means a compromise. I would say that if you are looking for something along the lines that you get in a S Class Burmester (or even the old Harmon Kardon in that specific vehicle), you are going to be disappointed. I thought it was good, but not great. You are better off getting a Turbo S you love, and going through a bit of agony replacing out the stereo with aftermarket.
10-28-2020, 02:00 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
10-28-2020, 02:23 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
The treble is terrible. Sounds similar to tin can. The bass is weak and hallow. The 120-250hz range is boosted which makes things boomy and lazy. The midrange is fat and over stated. When volume is increased, everything is attenuated to the same level, and at low volume, the bass is over stated.
The old saying, no highs, no lows must be Bose, is an accurate phrase for the cayenne Bose system.
The old saying, no highs, no lows must be Bose, is an accurate phrase for the cayenne Bose system.
My build log, if you're curious.. https://www.diymobileaudio.com/threa...skizer.390530/
Last edited by Eskimo1; 10-28-2020 at 02:29 PM.
10-28-2020, 03:06 PM
#26
Rennlist Member
Rich, I was going to ask about the build and you posted it. Amazing work and it looks spectacular. I wish the Bur's didn't have the tweets in the top of the dash.
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Eskimo1 (10-28-2020)
10-28-2020, 04:46 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
Interestingly enough, the newer MOST adapter would allow me to retain Bluetooth calling through the car, but I don't miss it enough to drop $1k on that. ( Mobridge DA1 / DA-G2 )
Also, the newer DSP units (Helix, et al) are able to utilize a center channel & allow both front seat passengers to enjoy the music equally, whereas mine is drivers seat focused. It still sounds good to the passenger, but the imaging is pulled solidly to the right.
10-28-2020, 06:43 PM
#28
I'll toss in my 2 cents as locating a CD with Burmester is the straw that broke the camel's back and caused me to trade in my beloved 2014 CD on a stop-sale-release 2015 CD.
I'm an audiophile... within some budgetary constraints.
I have a very nice (IMO) sounding home system. PSB Platinum speakers, Marantz receiver w/Audyssey room correction, Emotiva amplifier, wired into a Mac Mini playing Lossless+ audio via fiber and PureMusic3 software. All of the components purchased used (save for the Marantz) as hand-me-downs from friends with bigger budgets. I've also built a few car systems - my current setup in my (hah!) track rat: 2ch 90wx2 Alpine amplifier, AudioFrog 6.5 coaxials (too lazy to deal with components), Alpine deck with my own developed EQ to match the pink noise wave I get out of my home system.
I, generally... think Bose sounds terrible. Weird low end, usually glaring midrange, and weak up top. Crank the treble to get some upper end and the mids just glare more. In fact in home stereo stores, I can usually "tell" a Bose system playing somewhere. To somebody who's never heard anything beyond their TV speakers, sure, it sounds better.... but... ugh.
THAT said - Bose in Porsche seems to be hit or miss. I had the Bose in my wife's 2nd Boxster (981), and have heard it in multiple 991 service loaners - and it sounds horrible. My wife's 1st Boxster (also a 981) had the base-level 2 speaker system, which sounded better than the Bose.
My first Cayenne had Bose - and it wasn't horrible. It wasn't the best but it was enough that I was able to live with it.
My **current** Cayenne has Burmester. To me? It sounds pretty damned good. I can't say I'd pony up for the premium (what is it... $7k??) when buying new, but it would be a bonus if I found a car already equipped with it... like I did with my current CD. Frankly if I were buying new and was comfortable dropping $7k for the Burm - I'd take that $7k and go to a good audio shop instead and have a pro put something in. I was fortunate that the CD I'd found, right when the stop-sale was listed, wasn't really priced at any kind of premium over other "Premium Plus" CD's the dealer had... so it was essentially "Free".
That said, like anything audio - source material is KEY.
MP3 or streaming - it's going to depend on the quality. The 320k stream from Spotify is listenable. XM sounds bad no matter what you do. A CD will sound better (assuming it's a good recording) and to really make EITHER system (Burm or Bose) shine - toss in a high-resolution DVD-A disc. If I had to recommend one it would be the Dire Straits anniversary disc - this even made the Bose sound impressive. But with the Burm - it really is FANTASTIC.
When I found a CD with Burm... I brought my Dire Straits disc with me on the test drive. I listened to it on my Bose on the way to the dealer so I was freshly familiar before climbing into the Burm vehicle.... and that comparison, it was like fresh ears. The punch, the clarity. The highs are smooth and delicate but present. No glare. Sub is very tight, lows are smooth. While the Bose still sounded good on the DVD-A - the Burm was just another level. That sold me.
So, TLDR; - if you put time/effort into only using GOOD source material (Lossless downloads or rips, or a collection of CD's/DVD-As) then you will enjoy and appreciate the Burm. If you mostly listen to radio/XM, basic free streaming services, or generally don't pay attention to the fact that your MP3s are all ripped at 128k.... you likely wouldn't notice much of a difference.
My 2 bucks anyways
I'm an audiophile... within some budgetary constraints.
I have a very nice (IMO) sounding home system. PSB Platinum speakers, Marantz receiver w/Audyssey room correction, Emotiva amplifier, wired into a Mac Mini playing Lossless+ audio via fiber and PureMusic3 software. All of the components purchased used (save for the Marantz) as hand-me-downs from friends with bigger budgets.
I've also built a few car systems - my current setup in my (hah!) track rat: 2ch 90wx2 Alpine amplifier, AudioFrog 6.5 coaxials (too lazy to deal with components), Alpine deck with my own developed EQ to match the pink noise wave I get out of my home system.I, generally... think Bose sounds terrible. Weird low end, usually glaring midrange, and weak up top. Crank the treble to get some upper end and the mids just glare more. In fact in home stereo stores, I can usually "tell" a Bose system playing somewhere. To somebody who's never heard anything beyond their TV speakers, sure, it sounds better.... but... ugh.
THAT said - Bose in Porsche seems to be hit or miss. I had the Bose in my wife's 2nd Boxster (981), and have heard it in multiple 991 service loaners - and it sounds horrible. My wife's 1st Boxster (also a 981) had the base-level 2 speaker system, which sounded better than the Bose.
My first Cayenne had Bose - and it wasn't horrible. It wasn't the best but it was enough that I was able to live with it.
My **current** Cayenne has Burmester. To me? It sounds pretty damned good. I can't say I'd pony up for the premium (what is it... $7k??) when buying new, but it would be a bonus if I found a car already equipped with it... like I did with my current CD. Frankly if I were buying new and was comfortable dropping $7k for the Burm - I'd take that $7k and go to a good audio shop instead and have a pro put something in.
I was fortunate that the CD I'd found, right when the stop-sale was listed, wasn't really priced at any kind of premium over other "Premium Plus" CD's the dealer had... so it was essentially "Free".That said, like anything audio - source material is KEY.
MP3 or streaming - it's going to depend on the quality. The 320k stream from Spotify is listenable. XM sounds bad no matter what you do. A CD will sound better (assuming it's a good recording) and to really make EITHER system (Burm or Bose) shine - toss in a high-resolution DVD-A disc. If I had to recommend one it would be the Dire Straits anniversary disc - this even made the Bose sound impressive. But with the Burm - it really is FANTASTIC.
When I found a CD with Burm... I brought my Dire Straits disc with me on the test drive. I listened to it on my Bose on the way to the dealer so I was freshly familiar before climbing into the Burm vehicle.... and that comparison, it was like fresh ears. The punch, the clarity. The highs are smooth and delicate but present. No glare. Sub is very tight, lows are smooth. While the Bose still sounded good on the DVD-A - the Burm was just another level. That sold me.
So, TLDR; - if you put time/effort into only using GOOD source material (Lossless downloads or rips, or a collection of CD's/DVD-As) then you will enjoy and appreciate the Burm. If you mostly listen to radio/XM, basic free streaming services, or generally don't pay attention to the fact that your MP3s are all ripped at 128k.... you likely wouldn't notice much of a difference.
My 2 bucks anyways
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Eskimo1 (10-29-2020)
10-29-2020, 11:00 AM
#29
Rennlist Member
I am also an audiophile although moved away a bit when digital started to become more popular than analog. The old expression "no high, no lows - must be Bose" was right on. Bose has a long history of cheap proprietary components starting with their speakers, and they use a highly processed signal to compensate for those components, which brings with it unusually high amounts of audio distortion. Although high amounts of distortion may not be immediately apparent to most people, it results in listener fatigue very quickly. These traits were true in both their home and car audio systems.
Having had Bose systems in a number of prior cars ranging from Cadillac to Acura, I will admit the system in my 958.2 is far and away the best Bose system I have heard to date. It still doesn't compare with better systems such as B&O, Mark Levinson or even Meridian for that matter. It lacks sharp crisp highs, and the mid bass is strong which compensates for the lack of true low bass. At higher volumes it has terrible distortion. As someone else noted, you can bring out the best in it by using high quality source material, which in my case I have copied into the jukebox. I haven't heard the Burmester in the Cayenne so I can't comment on it. I have heard it in a friend's MB, and it sounded a bit bright for my taste, but I don't know what his settings were so the comparison probably wasn't quite fair. Personally I don't really care what Porsche puts in their 911s as I generally don't turn it on, but I just don't understand why Porsche continues to use Bose in their other models when there are other "base" systems such as Harmon Kardon and Meridian that sound so much better.
Having had Bose systems in a number of prior cars ranging from Cadillac to Acura, I will admit the system in my 958.2 is far and away the best Bose system I have heard to date. It still doesn't compare with better systems such as B&O, Mark Levinson or even Meridian for that matter. It lacks sharp crisp highs, and the mid bass is strong which compensates for the lack of true low bass. At higher volumes it has terrible distortion. As someone else noted, you can bring out the best in it by using high quality source material, which in my case I have copied into the jukebox. I haven't heard the Burmester in the Cayenne so I can't comment on it. I have heard it in a friend's MB, and it sounded a bit bright for my taste, but I don't know what his settings were so the comparison probably wasn't quite fair. Personally I don't really care what Porsche puts in their 911s as I generally don't turn it on, but I just don't understand why Porsche continues to use Bose in their other models when there are other "base" systems such as Harmon Kardon and Meridian that sound so much better.
10-29-2020, 12:17 PM
#30
I am also an audiophile although moved away a bit when digital started to become more popular than analog. The old expression "no high, no lows - must be Bose" was right on. Bose has a long history of cheap proprietary components starting with their speakers, and they use a highly processed signal to compensate for those components, which brings with it unusually high amounts of audio distortion. Although high amounts of distortion may not be immediately apparent to most people, it results in listener fatigue very quickly. These traits were true in both their home and car audio systems.
Having had Bose systems in a number of prior cars ranging from Cadillac to Acura, I will admit the system in my 958.2 is far and away the best Bose system I have heard to date. It still doesn't compare with better systems such as B&O, Mark Levinson or even Meridian for that matter. It lacks sharp crisp highs, and the mid bass is strong which compensates for the lack of true low bass. At higher volumes it has terrible distortion. As someone else noted, you can bring out the best in it by using high quality source material, which in my case I have copied into the jukebox. I haven't heard the Burmester in the Cayenne so I can't comment on it. I have heard it in a friend's MB, and it sounded a bit bright for my taste, but I don't know what his settings were so the comparison probably wasn't quite fair. Personally I don't really care what Porsche puts in their 911s as I generally don't turn it on, but I just don't understand why Porsche continues to use Bose in their other models when there are other "base" systems such as Harmon Kardon and Meridian that sound so much better.
Having had Bose systems in a number of prior cars ranging from Cadillac to Acura, I will admit the system in my 958.2 is far and away the best Bose system I have heard to date. It still doesn't compare with better systems such as B&O, Mark Levinson or even Meridian for that matter. It lacks sharp crisp highs, and the mid bass is strong which compensates for the lack of true low bass. At higher volumes it has terrible distortion. As someone else noted, you can bring out the best in it by using high quality source material, which in my case I have copied into the jukebox. I haven't heard the Burmester in the Cayenne so I can't comment on it. I have heard it in a friend's MB, and it sounded a bit bright for my taste, but I don't know what his settings were so the comparison probably wasn't quite fair. Personally I don't really care what Porsche puts in their 911s as I generally don't turn it on, but I just don't understand why Porsche continues to use Bose in their other models when there are other "base" systems such as Harmon Kardon and Meridian that sound so much better.
A good friend of mine (one of the guys I buy my hand-me-downs from) used to run a high-end audio shop. They took a Bose speaker and cut it open and put it on display. Cheap, cheap driver. Literally cardboard inside the speaker cabinet that acted as wave guides or whatever. Frankly, I think what's impressive about Bose, is how good their stuff sounds given how CHEAP their components are. We were all impressed. Makes me wonder how good they COULD sound if they actually tried with better components.