Thoughts on a CTT for family of five + Some soft sand
10-14-2018, 11:23 PM
#1
Thoughts on a CTT for family of five + Some soft sand
Hi all,
I currently daily drive a 2015 m3 - most reliable car I've ever owned and excellent second vehicle for a family of four. Oh, and fun.
I now have a 2 month old in addition to my 4 year old and 6 year old (all boys). I'm considering selling the m3 with the following additional goals in mind:
1. Fit family of five for occasional trips - still have minivan for daily kid duty.
2. Add a vehicle that can drive on DE beaches - we love to do surf fishing. The sand is soft and deep, and rutted, but fairly flat. FWIW, I did it in a bone stock subaru outback and I see stock ford explorers and what not doing it. Good driving and airing down to 15 PSI seems to be the trick. I believe the CTT with 19" wheels/tires would be fine.
3. Add AWD - PA is wet/wintry/cold for 6 months a year (check the weather! It's literally either wet, below 40 F, or snow on the ground for >6 months a year). My current 425hp RWD car is great 50% of the time. Reality is that AWD makes more sense for highpowered 365 usage in my environment.
I never considered the CTT until I recently saw their depreciation. Beautiful 2013 models for <$50k? Possibly even close to $40k? Yeesh. But I prefer to not eat the depreciation, so works for me.
I also have a thing for vehicles that do it all. Like the m3 actually, albeit in this case more overland-y.
Looking for any thoughts on this. I'd also welcome advice on:
1. Is it worth it to go "down" to a 2011 CTT, pay less, and put the money into preventative maintenance on the few weak spots?
2. I would likely budget $2k a year for maintenance/repairs to drive 15k miles and would do my own oil changes & brakes. It won't hurt me if a sudden $5k repair pops up, though it would suck. Does this sound like reasonable expectations?
Thank you all!
Joe
P.s. Back-up plan would be adding a 3rd vehicle - which previously my wife and I hated doing - and getting a dedicated 4wd vehicle for fun/winter and another vehicle for nice weather fun. I'm resistant to this because of our history is not liking to own 3 vehicles.
I currently daily drive a 2015 m3 - most reliable car I've ever owned and excellent second vehicle for a family of four. Oh, and fun.
I now have a 2 month old in addition to my 4 year old and 6 year old (all boys). I'm considering selling the m3 with the following additional goals in mind:
1. Fit family of five for occasional trips - still have minivan for daily kid duty.
2. Add a vehicle that can drive on DE beaches - we love to do surf fishing. The sand is soft and deep, and rutted, but fairly flat. FWIW, I did it in a bone stock subaru outback and I see stock ford explorers and what not doing it. Good driving and airing down to 15 PSI seems to be the trick. I believe the CTT with 19" wheels/tires would be fine.
3. Add AWD - PA is wet/wintry/cold for 6 months a year (check the weather! It's literally either wet, below 40 F, or snow on the ground for >6 months a year). My current 425hp RWD car is great 50% of the time. Reality is that AWD makes more sense for highpowered 365 usage in my environment.
I never considered the CTT until I recently saw their depreciation. Beautiful 2013 models for <$50k? Possibly even close to $40k? Yeesh. But I prefer to not eat the depreciation, so works for me.
I also have a thing for vehicles that do it all. Like the m3 actually, albeit in this case more overland-y.
Looking for any thoughts on this. I'd also welcome advice on:
1. Is it worth it to go "down" to a 2011 CTT, pay less, and put the money into preventative maintenance on the few weak spots?
2. I would likely budget $2k a year for maintenance/repairs to drive 15k miles and would do my own oil changes & brakes. It won't hurt me if a sudden $5k repair pops up, though it would suck. Does this sound like reasonable expectations?
Thank you all!
Joe
P.s. Back-up plan would be adding a 3rd vehicle - which previously my wife and I hated doing - and getting a dedicated 4wd vehicle for fun/winter and another vehicle for nice weather fun. I'm resistant to this because of our history is not liking to own 3 vehicles.
10-15-2018, 10:31 AM
#2
Race Car
My advice is that you will enjoy it for all the things that you describe. I would buy the latest model that you can afford (2013). As you approach 100k miles, things get worn and are expensive to replace.
The only concern that I would have is getting 3 car seats in the back. While > 6' tall kids fit in there fine and there is lots of leg room, the back seat isn't very wide.
The only concern that I would have is getting 3 car seats in the back. While > 6' tall kids fit in there fine and there is lots of leg room, the back seat isn't very wide.
10-15-2018, 10:39 AM
#3
Hi Joe I remember you from the BMW forum. I can’t speak to the costs associated with turbo ownership as I just have a lowly diesel but, I’m thinking closer to $2500-3k depending on what tires you keep on it.
I will say this, Porsche parts and labor seem to be a notch or two up the “Ouch! My butt!” scale from even M division pricing. I can’t remember if you turn your own wrenches but, you will likely want to start if you don’t already.
I agree on the backseat maybe being a bit tight for 3 car seats but, I don’t know many European SUVs that wouldn’t be.
Also be prepared for a step back on the appearance userfriendliness of the infotainment/smart phone/audio integration. I’m seriously looking at doing the CarPlay retrofit because the Porsche interface is quite clunky.
Personally I would not be too hung up on year but, worry more about equipment, condition and mileage and then buy the best I could afford.
I will say this, Porsche parts and labor seem to be a notch or two up the “Ouch! My butt!” scale from even M division pricing. I can’t remember if you turn your own wrenches but, you will likely want to start if you don’t already.
I agree on the backseat maybe being a bit tight for 3 car seats but, I don’t know many European SUVs that wouldn’t be.
Also be prepared for a step back on the appearance userfriendliness of the infotainment/smart phone/audio integration. I’m seriously looking at doing the CarPlay retrofit because the Porsche interface is quite clunky.
Personally I would not be too hung up on year but, worry more about equipment, condition and mileage and then buy the best I could afford.
10-16-2018, 09:51 AM
#4
Rennlist Member
Salt air is a killer for anything, be it from the beach or winter roads. Not sure how readily I'd subject a Porsche to regular beach trips. But that'd be up to you.
Car seats three-abreast is a challenge for anything other than a full size family truckster. But there are narrower options out there.
Make no mistake, regardless of what you pay for one of these new, their parts and service prices and procedures are not inexpensive. You're still buying an $80k+ vehicle and it will bring those costs along, no matter how much it depreciates.
Look for one that already has the factory hitch. It can be added later, but not without at least one trip to the dealer to activate the controller. Likewise roof rails, at a certain point they became factory-only, not using channels in the roof. Best to get those two options already on there rather than having to add them later.
Car seats three-abreast is a challenge for anything other than a full size family truckster. But there are narrower options out there.
Make no mistake, regardless of what you pay for one of these new, their parts and service prices and procedures are not inexpensive. You're still buying an $80k+ vehicle and it will bring those costs along, no matter how much it depreciates.
Look for one that already has the factory hitch. It can be added later, but not without at least one trip to the dealer to activate the controller. Likewise roof rails, at a certain point they became factory-only, not using channels in the roof. Best to get those two options already on there rather than having to add them later.
10-16-2018, 04:09 PM
#5
Instructor
Having 3 kids and having gone from an e36 M3 to an e39 M5 - I convinced the wife it had more room and we could get 2 high back booster seats plus one car seat in the back seat, and now finally to a CTTS, I can say that I would have some concerns if you could really get al 3 seats in the back. The center seat is pretty tight with the side bolsters, so if it was me, I would take the car seats on a test drive and see how it works out. While the kids were still younger, we went to a Expedition EL and never had any issues with room or car seats, but now that the wife is driving the CTTS, she would never, ever go back to something like big. Great for what they are, but they are not a drivers vehicle and obviously not even in the same ballpark as a Cayenne. We also rarely have 3 in the back of the Cayenne and when we do they fight about who gets stuck in the middle.
Not trying to talk you out of a Cayenne, because ours has been rock solid and blast to drive (18 months of ownership and over 20k miles), but it may not be the best choice for what you need right now.
Not trying to talk you out of a Cayenne, because ours has been rock solid and blast to drive (18 months of ownership and over 20k miles), but it may not be the best choice for what you need right now.
10-16-2018, 04:32 PM
#7
Three Wheelin'
Cayenne (but not hybrid) have rear electronic diff and center and front locking differential so it will do very well on the beach .
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10-18-2018, 04:01 PM
#8
Thanks all. For what it's worth I took a ~3700 pound Subaru Outback on this beach - no locking diffs, regular AWD (albeit good symmetrical AWD), and a cruddy transmission (CVT). Aired down to 18 PSI on stock A/S tires, the Subaru never struggled in areas where others would get stuck if they had improper driving technique. The Outback did have ~8.7" of ground clearance, so the Porsche would hit the sand more. I'm more concerned about the extra 1000 pounds of the Porsche than what transfer case/gearing it has. You don't need ultra short gearing on the beach, you just need an AWD system that will keep 2-4 wheels spinning at all times and won't get hung up on a spinning wheel.
At my kids age/weight/size, here's what I would anticipate:
1 booster seat
1 full size rear facing seat
1 highback booster
At the most I'd be looking at 2 highback boosters + 1 full size rear facing seat.
....
In response to a few posts:
1. I'm not too worried about salt/sand. I drive through PA winters covered in salt 4 months a year already. Not much worse than that with proper care.
2. On Porsche pricing for parts - ouch. I did a bit of searching Pelican Parts and what not and see some pricing. It's not great. However, depreciation will still be the biggest cost on this vehicle short of a catastrophic failure (i.e. transfer case apparently). I'd knock out my own oil changes and brakes at the least, possibly other fluid changes and spark plugs. I'd have to throw on 19" wheels/tires which should also save money long term as well. I previously owned an e39 m5 and always liked the mantra that if you are driving an $80k car you should expect to own an $80k car, even if you bought it for $20k. I apply the same here.
3. Maybe this is completely stupid but the thing that makes me cringe the most is actually the general attitude of others at the beach towards a cayenne turbo used for this. It's a great community of surf-fishers, but they have a strong sense of blue collar ethic among them. Me driving a subaru outback out there was frowned at but accepted. Me driving a Porsche out there....might invite some encounters I'd rather not have. I'm talking about driving on with my wife and kids, so it's more than about me. On the flip side we tend to drive to remote spots and enjoy the solitude. I don't know if I should weight this much when I'm talking about a daily driver who would ALSO drive onto the beach a few dozen times a summer.
At my kids age/weight/size, here's what I would anticipate:
1 booster seat
1 full size rear facing seat
1 highback booster
At the most I'd be looking at 2 highback boosters + 1 full size rear facing seat.
....
In response to a few posts:
1. I'm not too worried about salt/sand. I drive through PA winters covered in salt 4 months a year already. Not much worse than that with proper care.
2. On Porsche pricing for parts - ouch. I did a bit of searching Pelican Parts and what not and see some pricing. It's not great. However, depreciation will still be the biggest cost on this vehicle short of a catastrophic failure (i.e. transfer case apparently). I'd knock out my own oil changes and brakes at the least, possibly other fluid changes and spark plugs. I'd have to throw on 19" wheels/tires which should also save money long term as well. I previously owned an e39 m5 and always liked the mantra that if you are driving an $80k car you should expect to own an $80k car, even if you bought it for $20k. I apply the same here.
3. Maybe this is completely stupid but the thing that makes me cringe the most is actually the general attitude of others at the beach towards a cayenne turbo used for this. It's a great community of surf-fishers, but they have a strong sense of blue collar ethic among them. Me driving a subaru outback out there was frowned at but accepted. Me driving a Porsche out there....might invite some encounters I'd rather not have. I'm talking about driving on with my wife and kids, so it's more than about me. On the flip side we tend to drive to remote spots and enjoy the solitude. I don't know if I should weight this much when I'm talking about a daily driver who would ALSO drive onto the beach a few dozen times a summer.
09-03-2019, 11:55 PM
#9
Banned
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Spring Lake, NJ, US of A
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I own a 2011 CTT - so
1. Yes. The "fixes" are actually surprisingly inexpensive compared to the lower price you'll be paying.
2. More than reasonable. You just have to consider that things like brakes and tires can be pricey on a Cayenne Turbo - but I've actually found ones that seem quite long lasting (finally replaced my front rotors at about 99,900 miles - and they weren't below spec yet.) Tires - get away from the Porsche "N" series approved tires, look at something like Michelin Pilot-Sport 4A (all seasons) and they'll last several years even with year-round use - they also perform quite well (better than the older design "summer" tires.) Could there be a $5000 got'cha - sure - but it's actually rather rare. Most dealers are doing the transfer cases with some assistance from Porsche (on cars with less than 100k on them), and if you do have to pay out of pocket - people have gotten a new case installed for $3,500 all in. And the old case CAN be rebuilt - we have several DIY threads on that.
My wife actually commented to me "the Porsche has been surprisingly reliable.." She was used to me owning BMWs for about 20 years.. Mine is at 100k, suspension feels great, engine sounds and pulls great, uses no oil. transmission seems fine (probably change the fluid in the next 20k miles) and even my transfer case has held up great - with just periodic fluid changes. I did replace the thermostat housing (cost at dealer was around $1,300 - but they then said they underestimated it a bit..) I paid for replacing the Variocam adjusters out of my pocket, and then forced Porsche into a recall (thanks to the good people here and on a few other forums) and they repaid me all I'd spent. That's not an issue with a 2011, if it hasn't been done - go to the dealer, ask for a Macan/S loaner and come back at the end of the day to get your car back freshly washed. No charge - recall.
1. Yes. The "fixes" are actually surprisingly inexpensive compared to the lower price you'll be paying.
2. More than reasonable. You just have to consider that things like brakes and tires can be pricey on a Cayenne Turbo - but I've actually found ones that seem quite long lasting (finally replaced my front rotors at about 99,900 miles - and they weren't below spec yet.) Tires - get away from the Porsche "N" series approved tires, look at something like Michelin Pilot-Sport 4A (all seasons) and they'll last several years even with year-round use - they also perform quite well (better than the older design "summer" tires.) Could there be a $5000 got'cha - sure - but it's actually rather rare. Most dealers are doing the transfer cases with some assistance from Porsche (on cars with less than 100k on them), and if you do have to pay out of pocket - people have gotten a new case installed for $3,500 all in. And the old case CAN be rebuilt - we have several DIY threads on that.
My wife actually commented to me "the Porsche has been surprisingly reliable.." She was used to me owning BMWs for about 20 years.. Mine is at 100k, suspension feels great, engine sounds and pulls great, uses no oil. transmission seems fine (probably change the fluid in the next 20k miles) and even my transfer case has held up great - with just periodic fluid changes. I did replace the thermostat housing (cost at dealer was around $1,300 - but they then said they underestimated it a bit..) I paid for replacing the Variocam adjusters out of my pocket, and then forced Porsche into a recall (thanks to the good people here and on a few other forums) and they repaid me all I'd spent. That's not an issue with a 2011, if it hasn't been done - go to the dealer, ask for a Macan/S loaner and come back at the end of the day to get your car back freshly washed. No charge - recall.
09-11-2019, 07:31 PM
#11
Joe,
I take my Cayenne TT to the beach all the time. In fact I'm going clamming, crabbing and surf fishing on Friday. Never had an issue with others about a Porsche on the beach but frankly, I don't really care. I' also take it in the back country in Oregon Idaho and Montana fly fishing and have never had any issues with others who enjoy the outdoors. It does raise a few eye brows and actually a few thumbs up for taking off road. Think of it this way, you've got 500 hp, faster then a scalded cat and you get to play in the dirt, pretty cool vehicle if you ask me.
I take my Cayenne TT to the beach all the time. In fact I'm going clamming, crabbing and surf fishing on Friday. Never had an issue with others about a Porsche on the beach but frankly, I don't really care. I' also take it in the back country in Oregon Idaho and Montana fly fishing and have never had any issues with others who enjoy the outdoors. It does raise a few eye brows and actually a few thumbs up for taking off road. Think of it this way, you've got 500 hp, faster then a scalded cat and you get to play in the dirt, pretty cool vehicle if you ask me.