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If you guys plan to reinstall the tubes with epoxy I would consider something like Fusor 111B over JB weld, although I don't know what the max temp rating on it is. We use it at work for all kinds of stuff we properly applied it's stronger than a weld. https://www.lord.com/sites/default/files/UI3001_0.pdf
Hotrod - temperature would be somewhat critical in this application. The Fusor 111B doesn't list this. JB Weld does - over 550F. In this application, I think JBWeld would be more than strong enough. I've never been able to remove any that has been properly applied.. BMW spec'd it for repairs to the head of the E30 4 cylinder engines that had erosion due to a failed O-ring. You basically built it up, then filed it to shape and remade the O ring groove with a Dremel tool and a metal cutting bit. It was stronger than the aluminum it replaced.
And having received a few PM's about making it a sticky - sticky it is. Hopefully this is the last of the "common" engineering mistake fixes for the 958 that get added to the sticky list.
That product is not fore use on engine parts, per the Use Instruction sheet you referenced:
"LORD Fusor Metal Bonding Adhesives shall only be used for bonding metal to
metal (steel or aluminum) in full or partial panel replacements of:• door skins• roof skins• other outer body sheet metal• quarter panels• rear body panels"
Hotrod - temperature would be somewhat critical in this application. The Fusor 111B doesn't list this. JB Weld does - over 550F. In this application, I think JBWeld would be more than strong enough. I've never been able to remove any that has been properly applied.. BMW spec'd it for repairs to the head of the E30 4 cylinder engines that had erosion due to a failed O-ring. You basically built it up, then filed it to shape and remade the O ring groove with a Dremel tool and a metal cutting bit. It was stronger than the aluminum it replaced.
Originally Posted by black04
That product is not fore use on engine parts, per the Use Instruction sheet you referenced:
"LORD Fusor Metal Bonding Adhesives shall only be used for bonding metal to
metal (steel or aluminum) in full or partial panel replacements of:• door skins• roof skins• other outer body sheet metal• quarter panels• rear body panels"
Fair enough. We have used 111B in a lot of different applications with some pretty high temps but, the specs are the specs. I've never had much luck with JB Weld but, that was a long time ago and could very well have been from poor surface prep.
Completely agree that there do not seem to be too many of these failures reported as of yet - although I'm sure many go unreported. From what I understand, the pressure inside the coolant pipes is rather low (like 15 psi). One theory I've seen for the the failure is that the pressure release valve in the coolent overflow cap does not work properly and as a result the pressure rises and the the glue comes undone. Still seems like an unnecessary risk to me. I guess using glue allowed Porsche to reduce the number of bolts (and a little weight) in the car and simplify assembly.
I do suspect that we will see many more failures as the cars age and the glue weakens due to temperature cycling etc. My failure happened at altitude in the the mountains where relative pressures change and the outside temperature swings are much greater than the car normally experiences. Unfortunately I was far from home else I would have taken on fixing it myself.
My issue was very similar to this. I was driving my 2011 S on a dirt road (think vibrations) at 8,000 ft of elevation when my coolant leaked out. The dealership said it was leaking from the thermostat housing and the pressure release valve, which were both replaced under CPO warranty. I cannot confirm that the glue was the issue, but after reading this thread, I am convinced it was. The new thermostat housing has the upgraded design.
JB Water Weld got me home in a pinch in the SC300 when a cracked radiator neck blew coolant after a spirited run around the lake turns; turned around and put the regular stuff on top of it. That radiator neck which was prone to cracking has never cracked since. The new owner hasn't even swapped the radiator out because it's held just fine (has another one on hand just in case).
People laugh at me for recommending JB Weld for some things, but I say screw it, if it works, it works.
Off topic JBWeld story: Removed the original intake manifold on a '72 Fiat 124 Spyder and replaced it with an earlier "runner" style intake manifold that did not have a coolant jacket like the original '72 intake (to avoid heating the intake charge). To block the coolant passage in the cylinder head, I cleaned it out the hole in the cylinder head (which looked like a 5th intake passage) with acetone and alcohol. It was already rough from the sand casting, I put a big old plug of JBWeld in the passage and drove it for a couple of years then sold it to my ex-brother-in-law. Unbeknown to me (we'd lost touch over the years), he kept the damn thing for almost 20 years after he bought it from me. In the 17th year he had it, the JBWeld plug popped out of the coolant passage about a mile from his home and dumped all the coolant on the pavement. So that JBWeld plug lasted about 19 years!!!
I have a 2011 Cayenne S with almost 76,000 miles. I just got hit with the coolant leak while I was driving in 106 degree heat. My wife, daughter, son-in-law, and 3 year old granddaughter were with me. Luckily, I was only 18 miles from home, and I was able to turn around and drive about 9 miles to a wine cellar. Well, my wife and daughter enjoyed the cool indoors sipping on some wine while I waited for good ol' AAA to save the day (at least my wife let me have a sip of her wine). Flat bed took me, the son-in-law and my poor Cayenne S back home. Well, I did not have the time or patience to work on my Cayenne in that terrible heat, so I had it hauled down to our dealership (Where I live I do not have a mechanic that can work on a Cayenne let alone any Porsche.). They diagnosed it was a coolant leak under the intake, and I was out the door with only $1247 missing from my bank account. All told, my Cayenne was down for nine days. Why so long? Well, the leak occurred on a Sunday, and I could not get the Cayenne to the dealership until the following Friday. Cayenne stay at the dealership over the weekend, and I was able to pick up my P!G on Tuesday. No problem driving home and driving in 105 degree heat going up through Highway 14, north of Los Angeles. Here are three pictures, courtesy of my SA and he used his cell phone.
I have a 2011 Cayenne S with almost 76,000 miles. I just got hit with the coolant leak while I was driving in 106 degree heat. My wife, daughter, son-in-law, and 3 year old granddaughter were with me. Luckily, I was only 18 miles from home, and I was able to turn around and drive about 9 miles to a wine cellar. Well, my wife and daughter enjoyed the cool indoors sipping on some wine while I waited for good ol' AAA to save the day (at least my wife let me have a sip of her wine). Flat bed took me, the son-in-law and my poor Cayenne S back home. Well, I did not have the time or patience to work on my Cayenne in that terrible heat, so I had it hauled down to our dealership (Where I live I do not have a mechanic that can work on a Cayenne let alone any Porsche.). They diagnosed it was a coolant leak under the intake, and I was out the door with only $1247 missing from my bank account. All told, my Cayenne was down for nine days. Why so long? Well, the leak occurred on a Sunday, and I could not get the Cayenne to the dealership until the following Friday. Cayenne stay at the dealership over the weekend, and I was able to pick up my P!G on Tuesday. No problem driving home and driving in 105 degree heat going up through Highway 14, north of Los Angeles. Here are three pictures, courtesy of my SA and he used his cell phone.
I assume this photo was taken after the thermostat housing was replaced.... since it is showing the new (bolted pipes) design. Actually - your out the door price was quite fair. About what mine was and they told me when they were done they'd underestimated the job, but stuck by the estimate ($1,350). Just curious - did they replace the serpentine belt? It would not need any additional labor charge. Ditto on the thermostat element. And water pump (I'd had mine replaced not too far before this - when the engine was out for a Variocam repair..) All of those bits have to be removed to do the job, and it's no more difficult to replace them with new parts vs old parts.
Don,
I am at work right now. I will check my receipt and get back to you. My SA originally quoted me $1600 and I was very happy with $1247. My wife was with me so I did not look closely at the receipt. My SA told me the night before that my Cayenne would be ready for pick up at around 9 am. I took the day off from work and drove through the hellish traffic on the 405 to get to Beverly Hills Porsche. When we arrived my SA told me that he had the techs do another QA check and took it for another test drive to verify that the it would not leak again. Driving 2 plus hours in traffic in the heat to get home is bad and having another failure would be sickening. So, I appreciated the extra effort on his part. I will ask him if the pictures were taken before the repair or after. One item of note that I was informed about when I dropped off my Cayenne is that it was COPed twice. I bought it on January 2, 2017 with 37618 miles on it.
Don,
When we arrived my SA told me that he had the techs do another QA check and took it for another test drive to verify that the it would not leak again.
Did they address the rear crossover pipe? If not, you're very trusting of the SA's uninformed opinion.
These engines need all three lines addressed to be cured of this issue which can be a stranding event. For others with these engines, an independent mechanic should be able to pin all three lines for probably cheaper than the cost of the thermostat housing alone. And if you do it yourself, it's under $100 in parts ($70 of which is the silly camshaft plug!).
garrett376,
I had not known about the rear crossover tube. I would have inquired about it if I had. Thanks for the info. Now I am forearmed! The only part that was replaced was the Y pipe at a cost of $91.53 and coolant was $67.38 (3.785 L). I probably could have replaced the Y pipe in my garage, but the heat is incredible right now. OAT is hovering around 106 F and with no breeze, WOW! Inside my garage the heat is worse. When the wind picks up I have to worry about sand being blown everywhere. So, I prefer to be cool, no sand in every crevice, and headache free. And, I was able to take my wife to a nice breakfast a few miles from the dealership when we picked up our P!G! My wife was happy, so I was ecstatic!
Do you or anyone have the part numbers for the rear crossover pipe replacement? Or, at least where I can find them? Thanks!
07-27-2018, 06:10 PM
I was Lucky!
The only part that was replaced was the Y pipe at a cost of $91.53 and coolant was $67.38 (3.785 L). I probably could have replaced the Y pipe in my garage, but the heat is incredible right now. OAT is hovering around 106 F and with no breeze, WOW! Inside my garage the heat is worse. When the wind picks up I have to worry about sand being blown everywhere. So, I prefer to be cool, no sand in every crevice, and headache free. And, I was able to take my wife to a nice breakfast a few miles from the dealership when we picked up our P!G! 
My wife was happy, so I was ecstatic! 