2006 CTT with high mileage
06-07-2016, 04:11 PM
#16
Three Wheelin'
WP, good points, but if I spend 7,500 over the course of the next 3 or so years, I'd still think I came out pretty far ahead (17,500 to drive a CTT for 3 years! I can't even get a 2015 Prius V for that much).
Can definitely do oil changes myself, tires are definitely something I'd need to consider (this particular car has the Turbo S wheels, [5 spokes that look like a propeller spinning if you're on LSD]). Honestly, if I can get 3 years with the engine, transmission, and bluetooth chugging along and then sell to a parts guy for $5K with 200K miles, I'd say I won that bargain.
If that's a low probability outcome, that's kind of why I'm here asking you guys
EDIT: How accurate is KBB trade in value for these? Says it ranges from 8-11K for a car with this many miles, but I find that kind of hard to believe.
Can definitely do oil changes myself, tires are definitely something I'd need to consider (this particular car has the Turbo S wheels, [5 spokes that look like a propeller spinning if you're on LSD]). Honestly, if I can get 3 years with the engine, transmission, and bluetooth chugging along and then sell to a parts guy for $5K with 200K miles, I'd say I won that bargain.
If that's a low probability outcome, that's kind of why I'm here asking you guys
EDIT: How accurate is KBB trade in value for these? Says it ranges from 8-11K for a car with this many miles, but I find that kind of hard to believe.
This is a Porsche forum, so I feel obligated to preface all this with "if you want it, then buy it." But, if you're asking for opinions on whether this seems like a good idea, my answer is a resounding "no."
06-07-2016, 04:20 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
I've owned my CTTS for a year now, it has 122k miles on it. I haven't spent the kinda cash in maintenance that WP has but stuff has come up and your ability to wrench on the car yourself makes a huge difference in costs.
Bear in mind my CTTS also has 70k LESS miles on than the one you're looking at and that does make a difference. Things wear out with mileage/use not age...
Bear in mind my CTTS also has 70k LESS miles on than the one you're looking at and that does make a difference. Things wear out with mileage/use not age...
06-07-2016, 04:26 PM
#18
From what I've heard at the dealer, the Turbo's on these things rarely fail. Mine is in the 185K region and it still goes like a train. As mentioned by the time you get up to this mileage most things will have replaced at least once, but they may need replacing again soon. The interiors hold up well and you do get a few more options as standard. If it's had a good service history it may be worth a gamble for $10k, if you have that kind of money to gamble.
06-07-2016, 05:28 PM
#19
Nordschleife Master
Thanks guys; price will be right about $10K, maybe +- $500. The majority of the mileage, according to the PO, was done on trips on I-5 between LA and SF, so I'm guessing there probably wasn't a ton of turbo useage if you're doing 85 on the highway for 6 hours straight.
Having never owned a turbo, if the turbos go does this just turn into a glorified S? This might be the dumbest question ever asked, but I'm slightly curious given that I would figure the biggest maintenance item I'd look at that differentiates a TT vs. an S would be the turbos, and my wife unless she's rushing to pick up the baby, will drive like an 85 y/o grandma.
To address Wisco Joe's questions:
1. $10K, maybe a little higher.
2. Until it dies. Wife wants an SUV for occassional use (we have a hybrid hatchback for everything else)
3. Engine work on a modern car? Ehhhh, prefer not to. Ticky tack stuff, I'm pretty handy (I do own a 25 year old 964, which automatically makes you an expert in diagnosing and fixing little issues).
Having never owned a turbo, if the turbos go does this just turn into a glorified S? This might be the dumbest question ever asked, but I'm slightly curious given that I would figure the biggest maintenance item I'd look at that differentiates a TT vs. an S would be the turbos, and my wife unless she's rushing to pick up the baby, will drive like an 85 y/o grandma.
To address Wisco Joe's questions:
1. $10K, maybe a little higher.
2. Until it dies. Wife wants an SUV for occassional use (we have a hybrid hatchback for everything else)
3. Engine work on a modern car? Ehhhh, prefer not to. Ticky tack stuff, I'm pretty handy (I do own a 25 year old 964, which automatically makes you an expert in diagnosing and fixing little issues).
The biggest job you'd see would be the motor mounts. On a turbo they require pulling the motor (you can't get the MMs around the turbos with it in).
If the coolant pipes are done (and the Ts too), worst of the motor work you'd see would likely be a water pump. Not too difficult.
It's the "ticky tack" stuff that will be there. Hatch struts, lower control arms, cardan shaft (it's a wear item).
That sort of "little stuff" is always present on a car that old (you already know this from your 964). Spending money to have someone else do those things will get old fast. But there are writeups for most of this kind of stuff.
From an economic stand point, it probably isn't the smartest decision. WrinkledPants knows what he's talking about.
But it's a freaking Porsche. None of them are a "smart" economic decision.
If this particular one is in decent condition with good records, it could be a lot of fun.
06-07-2016, 05:31 PM
#20
Banned
Thread Starter
Or, spend 20K on a 957 or 958 Cayenne Base, drive it for 3 years, and have quite of bit of trade-in value without all the headaches.
This is a Porsche forum, so I feel obligated to preface all this with "if you want it, then buy it." But, if you're asking for opinions on whether this seems like a good idea, my answer is a resounding "no."
This is a Porsche forum, so I feel obligated to preface all this with "if you want it, then buy it." But, if you're asking for opinions on whether this seems like a good idea, my answer is a resounding "no."
If I bought a 20K 957/958 and sold it three years later, I'd probably get $10K for it, plus say $4K for maintainance (lowballing it) and other items over the same period, so my all in cost would be $14K.
With the CTT, I'd buy for 10K, say I really screw the pooch and buy a lemon and end up putting in 10K into it and sell it for 6K 3 years later. That would cost me the same $14K.
In the all things being equal world, I'd rather keep the extra 10K upfront, drive a CTT vs. base, and potentially have upside if I don't end up spending 10K on fixing it. The bad thing about buying newer, lower end is 1. Depreciation is a fixed cost. I can't "wrench" on depreciation and make it go slower and 2. Having a porsche turbo is something unique, imo.
06-07-2016, 05:36 PM
#21
Banned
Thread Starter
Wisco, this is my thinking. I'm not definitely going to buy this and don't have my mind set, but do want to get an idea of the ultimate downside. There's a chance I invest a lot of money trying to keep this car on the road, but if I can sell it for anywhere close to 8K as a mechanic special, ultimately this seems like it's not the worst idea I've ever cooked up.
That would be trying to fly a 1970's hangglider off a hill when I was 15. It ended as poorly as would be expected.
*Re: Not the best financial decision: The cost to lease a Prius V for 3 years is close to 17K when everything is said and done, and that's on a car with a mid-30's MSRP (and need I remind you, an overgrown Prius).
That would be trying to fly a 1970's hangglider off a hill when I was 15. It ended as poorly as would be expected.
*Re: Not the best financial decision: The cost to lease a Prius V for 3 years is close to 17K when everything is said and done, and that's on a car with a mid-30's MSRP (and need I remind you, an overgrown Prius).
Short of a (rare) catastrophic failure, the turbos themselves on these cars are pretty durable.
The biggest job you'd see would be the motor mounts. On a turbo they require pulling the motor (you can't get the MMs around the turbos with it in).
If the coolant pipes are done (and the Ts too), worst of the motor work you'd see would likely be a water pump. Not too difficult.
It's the "ticky tack" stuff that will be there. Hatch struts, lower control arms, cardan shaft (it's a wear item).
That sort of "little stuff" is always present on a car that old (you already know this from your 964). Spending money to have someone else do those things will get old fast. But there are writeups for most of this kind of stuff.
From an economic stand point, it probably isn't the smartest decision. WrinkledPants knows what he's talking about.
But it's a freaking Porsche. None of them are a "smart" economic decision.
If this particular one is in decent condition with good records, it could be a lot of fun.
The biggest job you'd see would be the motor mounts. On a turbo they require pulling the motor (you can't get the MMs around the turbos with it in).
If the coolant pipes are done (and the Ts too), worst of the motor work you'd see would likely be a water pump. Not too difficult.
It's the "ticky tack" stuff that will be there. Hatch struts, lower control arms, cardan shaft (it's a wear item).
That sort of "little stuff" is always present on a car that old (you already know this from your 964). Spending money to have someone else do those things will get old fast. But there are writeups for most of this kind of stuff.
From an economic stand point, it probably isn't the smartest decision. WrinkledPants knows what he's talking about.
But it's a freaking Porsche. None of them are a "smart" economic decision.
If this particular one is in decent condition with good records, it could be a lot of fun.
Last edited by dhc905; 06-07-2016 at 05:57 PM.
06-07-2016, 07:31 PM
#22
Banned
Thread Starter
Going to see it this afternoon. Will try to get a good report on it and see what you guys think. I'm definitely a buy the seller sort of guy, so that will be important, but I'd also love to hear what you guys think when I have more details and have seen the car in person.
06-07-2016, 07:40 PM
#23
Intermediate
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Sounds good! Keep us posted on it!
Although I always recommend that friends get something newer/less miles, I'm like you and don't mind finding something with higher mileage and doing some work myself.
Although I always recommend that friends get something newer/less miles, I'm like you and don't mind finding something with higher mileage and doing some work myself.
06-07-2016, 07:59 PM
#24
Three Wheelin'
Given what I've read and the other responses on here, I don't think I'm following you on this.
If I bought a 20K 957/958 and sold it three years later, I'd probably get $10K for it, plus say $4K for maintainance (lowballing it) and other items over the same period, so my all in cost would be $14K.
With the CTT, I'd buy for 10K, say I really screw the pooch and buy a lemon and end up putting in 10K into it and sell it for 6K 3 years later. That would cost me the same $14K.
In the all things being equal world, I'd rather keep the extra 10K upfront, drive a CTT vs. base, and potentially have upside if I don't end up spending 10K on fixing it. The bad thing about buying newer, lower end is 1. Depreciation is a fixed cost. I can't "wrench" on depreciation and make it go slower and 2. Having a porsche turbo is something unique, imo.
If I bought a 20K 957/958 and sold it three years later, I'd probably get $10K for it, plus say $4K for maintainance (lowballing it) and other items over the same period, so my all in cost would be $14K.
With the CTT, I'd buy for 10K, say I really screw the pooch and buy a lemon and end up putting in 10K into it and sell it for 6K 3 years later. That would cost me the same $14K.
In the all things being equal world, I'd rather keep the extra 10K upfront, drive a CTT vs. base, and potentially have upside if I don't end up spending 10K on fixing it. The bad thing about buying newer, lower end is 1. Depreciation is a fixed cost. I can't "wrench" on depreciation and make it go slower and 2. Having a porsche turbo is something unique, imo.
Everyone posting in here has a CTT and knows how expensive they are to maintain. There is no financial justification for it. I only framed my response given that your budget was 10K, it's for your wife, and you're not much of a grease monkey. Now, your framing it as "can't wrench on depreciation" and owning a Turbo is unique.
If you want it, it's clean and looks well maintained - then buy it
I mean - lets be honest here. Your wife wants an SUV, you want a fast Porsche. It's a win win
If you go into this knowing the potential costs - then you're solid. It's the people that buy a 10K Porsche and think they'll cost as much to maintain as a 10K CRV that end up disgruntled.
06-07-2016, 08:03 PM
#25
Three Wheelin'
I've owned my CTTS for a year now, it has 122k miles on it. I haven't spent the kinda cash in maintenance that WP has but stuff has come up and your ability to wrench on the car yourself makes a huge difference in costs.
Bear in mind my CTTS also has 70k LESS miles on than the one you're looking at and that does make a difference. Things wear out with mileage/use not age...
Bear in mind my CTTS also has 70k LESS miles on than the one you're looking at and that does make a difference. Things wear out with mileage/use not age...
My cost for the last 35K miles with control arms, 2 sets of tires, scheduled maintenance, a few unscheduled bits, and some preventative, and i'm at $7500.
06-07-2016, 09:41 PM
#26
Banned
Thread Starter
Thanks WrinkledPants, I think my definition of a greasemonkey may be slightly different, hence the confusion. I can change oil, and do little ticky tack stuff, but changing a head gasket? Not so much.
So post mortem on the car:
- Current owner since August 2015. Hasn't done practically anything since his ownership besides cosmetic stuff, mostly of his own doing. There were some dings and scrapes and someone broke into the car via the driver side window, and he filed a $5K claim with his insurance to fix the whole kit and kaboodle. As a result, the exterior is in good shape, paint is bright and shiny (and a surprisingly cool color, Basalt black, it looked almost purple in direct sunlight). He bought it site unseen from PO1, and has since put less than 2K miles on it.
- PO1 is a doctor that lives nearby who had a second practice down in LA, hence the huge number of miles. He was a car guy and took care of the car quite well and did all the maintenance items listed.
- Clean carfax lists 1 other owner, but I think its PO1's lease to buyout.
So details on the actual car:
- In addition to the listed replaced parts, the driver's side *head* (not sure if it's actually the head, but it's the major gasket closest to the front of the car) has been replaced recently, but not the passenger side, which is weeping. It wasn't replaced as it seems like it's much more difficult.
- AC blew cold. I put the passenger seat warmer on high, but didn't feel anything (was on for at least 1 minute, not sure if it's supposed to be more efficient)
- Rear door shocks were more or less shot. Did, but barely, held the back door up.
- A fair amount of interior knicks and missing plastic bits. The alacantra at the very back seems to have frayed at the edge.
- Engine sounded alright. Seller claims he topped up the oil once since owning, but not coolant or anything else.
- Car didn't seem as powerful as I would have figured. On freeway onramp it didn't crack my neck back or anything, but maybe the pedal to floor distance is huge and I didn't properly "floor it". While in stop and go traffic, it seemed quite peppy once I pushed the accelerator down what felt like 3'.
- Great exhaust note
- If I get more serious about it, I'll be sure to check the little electrical items like windows, sunroof, seat belt adjustment, etc. He said they all worked.
Anyway, that's that. There wasn't anything that put me in the "definitely" don't buy this specific car column, but I was maybe a bit disappointed by the CTT in general.
So post mortem on the car:
- Current owner since August 2015. Hasn't done practically anything since his ownership besides cosmetic stuff, mostly of his own doing. There were some dings and scrapes and someone broke into the car via the driver side window, and he filed a $5K claim with his insurance to fix the whole kit and kaboodle. As a result, the exterior is in good shape, paint is bright and shiny (and a surprisingly cool color, Basalt black, it looked almost purple in direct sunlight). He bought it site unseen from PO1, and has since put less than 2K miles on it.
- PO1 is a doctor that lives nearby who had a second practice down in LA, hence the huge number of miles. He was a car guy and took care of the car quite well and did all the maintenance items listed.
- Clean carfax lists 1 other owner, but I think its PO1's lease to buyout.
So details on the actual car:
- In addition to the listed replaced parts, the driver's side *head* (not sure if it's actually the head, but it's the major gasket closest to the front of the car) has been replaced recently, but not the passenger side, which is weeping. It wasn't replaced as it seems like it's much more difficult.
- AC blew cold. I put the passenger seat warmer on high, but didn't feel anything (was on for at least 1 minute, not sure if it's supposed to be more efficient)
- Rear door shocks were more or less shot. Did, but barely, held the back door up.
- A fair amount of interior knicks and missing plastic bits. The alacantra at the very back seems to have frayed at the edge.
- Engine sounded alright. Seller claims he topped up the oil once since owning, but not coolant or anything else.
- Car didn't seem as powerful as I would have figured. On freeway onramp it didn't crack my neck back or anything, but maybe the pedal to floor distance is huge and I didn't properly "floor it". While in stop and go traffic, it seemed quite peppy once I pushed the accelerator down what felt like 3'.
- Great exhaust note
- If I get more serious about it, I'll be sure to check the little electrical items like windows, sunroof, seat belt adjustment, etc. He said they all worked.
Anyway, that's that. There wasn't anything that put me in the "definitely" don't buy this specific car column, but I was maybe a bit disappointed by the CTT in general.
06-07-2016, 10:20 PM
#27
Three Wheelin'
The blocks on these motors are pretty solid, as are the turbos. The only gaskets you typically see leaking are the valve covers, which is likely what he was referring to. I've never actually heard of a head gasket going bad.
Seems like it's in pretty rough shape. I looked at a lot of CTT's before buying, and clapped out cars seemed especially clapped out, somehow. But, clean cars felt really clean.
Unless your 964 is a turbo, it should have felt quick. 0-60 and quarter mile are low 5's and mid 13's, which is still respectable even by today's sports cars. I'm guessing boost leak of some kind. Not very common, all things considered, but at that mileage, it's not out of the question. Heated seat should have been warm to hot after a minute. They come on pretty quick, or at least mine does.
Seems like it's in pretty rough shape. I looked at a lot of CTT's before buying, and clapped out cars seemed especially clapped out, somehow. But, clean cars felt really clean.
Unless your 964 is a turbo, it should have felt quick. 0-60 and quarter mile are low 5's and mid 13's, which is still respectable even by today's sports cars. I'm guessing boost leak of some kind. Not very common, all things considered, but at that mileage, it's not out of the question. Heated seat should have been warm to hot after a minute. They come on pretty quick, or at least mine does.
06-08-2016, 10:56 AM
#28
Rennlist Member
I'm probably under $5k in maintenance in the last year. That includes the tranny seal, coolant res, control arms, brakes and a set of tires. Not too bad, although I know I'll have to replace the front brake rotors soon...
06-08-2016, 02:29 PM
#29
Banned
Thread Starter
Hey doc,
So this car has had the coolant res changed, relatively newish brakes, tires will probably be forthcoming in the next 5K miles, not sure when/if the control arms need changing.
That said, he had the car powered but not on while we walked around and I inspected the outside and interior. Fans/radio on. This was for about 10 minutes.
When I asked him to turn the car on, it seemed a little labored but caught on the first try. He told me that it's a common issue that these cars chew threw batteries and that if you're sitting in the car with the radio on, much sooner than you'd think, the car will issue a warning saying that it's turning off non-essential electronics to preserve battery life.
Is that true or is it indicative of potential electrical gremlins?
His one maintenance item, I guess, was he bought a new battery with a 5 year warranty.
So this car has had the coolant res changed, relatively newish brakes, tires will probably be forthcoming in the next 5K miles, not sure when/if the control arms need changing.
That said, he had the car powered but not on while we walked around and I inspected the outside and interior. Fans/radio on. This was for about 10 minutes.
When I asked him to turn the car on, it seemed a little labored but caught on the first try. He told me that it's a common issue that these cars chew threw batteries and that if you're sitting in the car with the radio on, much sooner than you'd think, the car will issue a warning saying that it's turning off non-essential electronics to preserve battery life.
Is that true or is it indicative of potential electrical gremlins?
His one maintenance item, I guess, was he bought a new battery with a 5 year warranty.
06-08-2016, 02:34 PM
#30
Banned
Thread Starter
Seems like it's in pretty rough shape. I looked at a lot of CTT's before buying, and clapped out cars seemed especially clapped out, somehow. But, clean cars felt really clean.
Unless your 964 is a turbo, it should have felt quick. 0-60 and quarter mile are low 5's and mid 13's, which is still respectable even by today's sports cars. I'm guessing boost leak of some kind. Not very common, all things considered, but at that mileage, it's not out of the question. Heated seat should have been warm to hot after a minute. They come on pretty quick, or at least mine does.
Unless your 964 is a turbo, it should have felt quick. 0-60 and quarter mile are low 5's and mid 13's, which is still respectable even by today's sports cars. I'm guessing boost leak of some kind. Not very common, all things considered, but at that mileage, it's not out of the question. Heated seat should have been warm to hot after a minute. They come on pretty quick, or at least mine does.
I sort of wish I had someone who owns a CTT or even base/S who could take this one out for a spin (I may formally ask if the other buyer doesn't pull the trigger) to set my bearings straight. Maybe I think it wasn't as fast because of the huge delay between foot on gas and acceleration. Very, very different than the 964, which is a much slower car but somehow feels faster because cause and effect are immediate.