_Vantage

Hey everyone,

A little about my background, I have always been into fun quick cars (modded a lot of Honda's in my younger days. Some autoX cars, some 1/4 mile) and I've also been bit by the off roading bug.


I have had a few Toyota's (4Runner's and Tacomas) and enjoy them. I do a lot of backcountry camping on fire service roads, but no crazy off roading.


I currently do not have the room anymore for a small Sporty car, and a truck so I am thinking a Cayenne is perfect to fit both categories.


My budget is around $40,000 CDN which gets me a used 2011 or so V6 Cayenne(tested a 6speed and automatic locally, loved the 6speed).


Or a older gen 2008-2010 S/GTS/Turbo.


All vehicles have around 60,000km's.


MPG is a little important, as I would hate to run out of fuel when im miles down a logging road, and same goes for reliability. I have never had and of my Honda's or Toyota's break down and leave my stranded, and I expect the same from a 40,000 Cayenne.


That all being said which is the best choice?


I understand the 08-10 GTS sits a little lower than a Turbo/S, but it also comes with Air suspension, which should raise to give me more than enough clearance for a logging road.


I see a lot of people saying the same thing, if youre buying a used 08-10 just go for the turbo as they are around the same price as a GTS.

Also, the wife and I do sleep in the back of my Tacoma's 6 foot box from time to time, and I know the 11+ Cayenne's do not have fold flat seats, but do the 08-10's fold flat? Is there enough room to sleep a 6'0" male inside?


Thanks in advance,


Luke

wrinkledpants

You're not going to get good gas mileage from any Cayenne - V6 or otherwise. You'll average 15 mpg in a V8 Cayenne, and maybe 18-19 with a V6.

I would suggest you do a search on this topic as it's brought up on a weekly basis. Nobody can tell you if this is a good choice. What we deem as "reliable" is substantially different than what a Toyota owners deems as "reliable." So, before I dive into this rant, let me take a second to paint you a picture.

I'm going to use a 2012 4Runner as an example to compare to a 957 Cayenne Turbo in your example.

Ground clearance - 4Runner = 9.6", Cayenne in Spec Terrain = 10.7"
Towing Capacity - 4Runner = 5K lbs, Cayenne = 7700 lbs
Engine size/HP - 4Runner = 4L V6 @ 270 HP, Cayenne - 4.8L TT V8 @500 HP
HWY MPG 4Runner (EPA) - 4Runner - 22, Cayenne 19
Approach/Departure angles - 4Runner= 25/24, Cayenne = 32/27
Track performance 4Runner = none, Cayenne = on par with an Audi S4
Cargo Space - 4Runner = lots, Cayenne=little

As you said, the Cayenne is really two cars in one. On paper - it trounces the 4Runner in almost every metric (even off-road ones), all except the cargo space. For a motor that produces nearly twice the torque (CTT is mid 500 range), you only lose 3 mpg (granted it's premium gas). My point is - all of this capability and engineering comes at a price. Is a Boeing 747 reliable? Sure - their dispatch rate is excellent. Is it cheap to own? Well - obviously not.

Reliable to a Toyota owner means having to spend very little time fixing stuff, and preventative maintenance basically means doing oil, brakes, and tires when needed. Reliable in the Porsche world, specifically with the Cayenne, means you need to be an informed owner, and replace expensive items ahead of time. This will reward you with a mostly trouble-free ownership experience. I would guess that most spend around $1,000 - 1,500 annually, this is when you include the cost of brakes, tires, unexpected repairs, and preventative maintenance.

The owners here have obviously chosen to pay the price for the ownership experience. Only you can really decide if that's worth it for you. My wife and I operate ours in a similar way to what you're describing. It's great off-road, I never question whether it'll start or leave me stranded (but I'm good about preventative maintenance), and we spend a fair amount of time high in the Rocky Mountains away from cell service. You can't sleep in the back with the trunk shut; it'll need to be open.

The 958 V6 is obviously a huge step up from an interior standpoint, but performance is mediocre at best, and they don't have air suspension. So, off-road ability is on-par with other SUVs in this category. The Turbo has all the performance, ground clearance, but the interior is dated by comparison. But, it's still high quality with the entire interior being leather (dash, doors, roof is alcantara ceiling). I'd rather have a newer VW Touareg TDi than a 958 Cayenne V6 - simply because it's way cheaper, same chassis, much better fuel economy. From your choice, though - I'd take the Turbo any day over the V6 version.

colowhisper

^^Wow, that is sage advice and counsel. People who own and appreciate German cars are fundamentally different from people who own and appreciate Japanese cars. Right nor wrong, just priorities. I'm new here too, just bought my first Porsche, but have been a long time Audi S car owner, and before that VW in my youth. I absolutely love my recent purchase 957 turbo (albeit with a dated interior ;-). I recently had a friend trade a 4 Runner for a Q7 and he said to me recently "now I understand...."

_Vantage

Thanks for the help Pants/whisper.


Very good advice.

Yes I sound like a typical Honda/Toyota owner, just oil changes and tire rotations on all my vehicles with zero other issues (other than blowing stock clutches at the track).

That being said, I am decent at working on vehicles and the Cayenne would not be my daily driver, as I have a F250 for work.

As for the Touareg thought, I very very nearly bought one 2 years ago but the horrible front seats + lack of sleeping inside were a deal breaker. Looking back I wish I had bought it, but instead I bought a Tacoma Limited.

A few years ago I owned a 2011 Tacoma and a 2012 VW GLI and I fell in love with the feel of a higher end car(not that a GLI is at all higher end), but it just seemed so much nicer to be inside than almost all of my Japanese products. (save for my 2006 Civic Si, which is a amazing car).

I think the turbo would be nearly more vehicle than I need, but you only live once. The idea of a GTS is still intriguing as there are a lot for sale, but the lack of sleeping inside is rather annoying, and not that many seem to come with a hitch/wiring which I will need.






And as for searching, I read nearly every thread on this topic since 2010 on the archives here and 6speedonline, but with Porsche being a "niche" market the threads are usually short and not completely helpful.

XS29L9B

All the GTSes I looked at were either high mileage, or their owners were awfully proud of them, based on prices. I just bought a 2009 S for my wife. It's her car to go and sit in a parking garage during the day, so the GTS might have been overkill, anyways. YMMV.








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circle h ranch

Here is my two cents.
In May my wife bought me a sight unseen 08 v6 6speed in St Paul, Minnesota. I live near Spokane WA. the car had nearly 100k on it and she bought it for $18500.
I have driven it about 9k miles since then. I am averaging 21mpg. I am a wheat farmer and drive 7 miles to get to pavement. All our dirt roads have a 50mph speed limit.
This is the nicest driving car I have ever owned. Something about it is just right for me.
I talked to my local dealer and he told me that this is a very low maintenance car. It will eat tires. No one seems to know how long a V6 clutch lasts because no one seems to have replaced one. I changed the belt, brakes and plugs. All the maintenance has been easy and cheap. Had to buy a durametric to reset the oil light.
Everything I have wanted to research is on these forums.
I will see how it holds up to the way I live, so far I am very happy.
Good luck finding the right one for you.

wrinkledpants

The annual maintenance number I quoted is assuming you do most of the work yourself. If you need a dealer for a lot of things - double that number.

Of course the Cayenne is more vehicle that anyone needs. You don't buy a Cayenne, or any Porsche for that matter, because you need it; you buy it because you want it.

For me - there is only one Cayenne to own. That's the one with two turbos. They'll hold their value better, just as much to operate as any other Cayenne (the turbos don't add any additional costs to maintain since they're really solid). If you're worried about the costs, just plan on owning it for a long time. It'll hold up to the abuse if you take care of it.

You might also consider a Q7. You can find a 2011 Q7 TDi prestige in your price range. High 20's for mpg, has the sleeping space you desire, *tons* of creature comforts if you get a well optioned unit (radar guided cruise control, power lift gate, pano roof, awesome sound system, etc). It's the same chassis as the Cayenne, so it'll stay really composed on the road. It's a Quattro-based AWD system, so no low-range. But, it's an 8-speed diesel, so it'll have the torque. Has the same air-suspension as the Cayenne, as well. It won't have the raw power of the Cayenne, nor will it have the crisp steering (it's more boosted). But, from what you describe I think it might make more sense. If you have the 21" wheels on it, you can toss it into the corners and it'll hang on. Won't feel like a Cayenne, but it'll feel superior to any vehicles in your current fleet.

Sniffer

If I didn't own a Cayenne, thats what I`d have

mtnrat

As for sleeping in the back, I can sleep diagonally fully stretched out..., but I am 5'7". When I go fishing I sleep diagonal and my dog curls up beside me. No way two can sleep in there with the tailgate closed unless all night spooning works for you.

jpru2001

same here. have you looked at the redesigned interior pics for the model about to come out? looks pretty sweet, they've brought the A6/8 slide out screen into the dash. I'll be upgrading in probably about 2 years and it will be between the redesigned Q7 and another cayenne. My wife has an A6 with the 3.0t and that has just been a wonderful car for us. handsome inside and out, the most comfortable car ever to spend a few hours in driving on a trip, sound, etc...my buddy with an A8 got a new Q7 as a loaner the other day and he is about to buy one.

Jonathon Rolstin

This is the best summary and comparo I have ever read about the Cayenne.

Thanks wrinkledpants!

and +955/7

_Vantage

A friend has a 2012 Prestige Q7. I do not like the vehicle at all!

brooklynkid

I love my 2004 cayenne turbo and it's the best vehicle for my daily driver needs, with towing capability . If I was going camping and need to sleep in the back, my lexus GX is far bigger and gets about 22 mpg on road trips. Needless to say it's 4wd capability is as good if not better than Porsche and its significantly cheaper to work on

wrinkledpants

Yeah - while the Cayenne trumps the 4Runner, and many others, on paper - body on frame with a solid axle is still going to be much better off-road. The Cayenne shines where you need to control power to the wheels, and in this regard, it'll likely get more places than a Tacoma. While the electronic diff lock might not be as good as an actual diff lock for the front and rear axle on the Cayenne, it's still substantially better than many of the Japanese SUV's that might not have any diff locks, or they have a center lock but no locks on the axles, or a EDL But, the pitfall is that you have to drive so.......god........d@mn.........slow to get there because the suspension in spec terrain mode is like no suspension at all. Sure, you get gobs of ground clearance, but you just get beat to hell on the inside with stiff suspension and stiff sway bars. I always wondered how something with PDCC or the off-road pack on the 955 would do since you can disconnect the sways hydraulically. It's why I'll likely have my next set of winters be an 18" wheel with 265/65 AT tires that I can deflate a bit to soften the rocky trails. Otherwise, we're basically moving slower than a walking pace when it's really hard and rocky.

endless_corners

I haven't noticed the extreme harshness off-road that you speak of. What size wheels/tired do u run?