Tom_T

OK, this question is for those Cay owners who actually tow - & preferably those with both pre-08 & post-08 towing experience.

After a hiatus due to a family member's extended illness & death - I'm now back to looking for a nice, well kept, low mile `06-`10 Cayenne S.

The ONLY reason the `06 is even on the list is because we really like the Cay-S Titanium Ed.'s 6 month only Iceland Silver paint color - & yes, I do know to check on all of: the coolant pipes & ignition coils updates, cardan shaft/mid-bearing & F lower control arm bushings wear, water pump, timing chain rollers/tensioners, etc. items.

So I don't need input on those.

What I do need to know is if there is a BIG difference in the towing with the early Series 1 `03-06 Cayennes - vs. - the later `08> ones with the updated PSM with their "Towing Stability Management" system?

Is it really a game changer to push us away from the `06 Cay-S TI?

I should point out that we will primarily be towing our restored vintage 1960 Avion T20 travel trailer (an Airstream cousin), which has a single axle with electric drum brakes & Tekonsha Prodigy RF wireless brake controller (trailer tongue mounted with handheld RF controls in cab), & a top end Hensley Cub WD/Anti-sway PPP hitch, & it's about 22' L with the Cub hitch on, & weighs in at about 3000-3500# wet/loaded, with 340-345# HW (verified w/ Sherline scale).

Secondarily, later on I may also tow rented car haulers to take my `73 914-2.0 to/from resto & mechanic shops, & then to PCA Concours whenever it's resto is done; &/or tow small utility trailers to haul house project supplies from Home Despot etc.

For reference the Pix below are of our rented similar size SUV & big ole pick-up TVs, & hitch/brake set-up on tongue, cut-n-paste of `06 Cay-S TI with our trailer, our trailer when new with auto TV for whcih they were designed (length, weight & easy to tow).

TIA -
Tom
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wrinkledpants

What is "Towing Stability Management?"

Tom_T

They actually call it: "Trailer Stability Control" - sorry, but same basic idea!

As quoted from Porsche's 2008 MY Cayenne Press Release long version found on their website (bold highlight emphasis added):

"Standard equipment on all versions of the 2008 Cayenne includes Porsche Stability Management, now
with new functions such as pre-loading of the braking system when needed, new Trailer Stability Control
and off-road ABS."

"Trailer Stability Control detects any pendulum motion on the trailer and intervenes by applying the brakes
individually as required in the interest of enhanced brake stability."

So they added something to PSM for the Series 2 (1.5) Gen Cayennes in 2008 to aid towing.

My question is it a game changer to cause me to only look at 2008> Cay-S? .... or are the Series 1 2006 without it just fine for our towing needs?

PS - The Ford & Dodge pick-ups which I've driven have a similar towing anti-sway braking program as well, but I don't notice it now with the Hensley Cub on there, since it eliminates all sway & the trucks are humongous compared with our little light trailer.

If Porsche's version is just belt+suspenders for us, then I'll keep the beautiful 2006 Cay-S TI in Iceland Blue on our list!

Thanx!
Tom
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Adam5oh

We do a lot of towing with our 2008. Mostly a 23' boat on a tandem axle trailer. Have never noticed the stability functions but I suspect that it only comes into play if the trailer starts getting a bit out of control. We never have any issues with excessive swaying so I wouldn't worry about it. What does help a lot is the air suspension. Sport mode helps out with the ride considerably and the self leveling is great as well.

Tom_T

Thanx for that input Adam,

PS - as per the pix, our Avion is a single axle - so a bit more squirelly, but tighter turning than a tandem - especially with the turn degrees allowed by the Hensley hitch.

I too could never notice the Ford version of built in trailer stability control/anti-sway kicking in - even on the first tow of the Avion home to SoCal from Albuquerque when we bought it in summer 2012 without any WD or Anti-Sway on the hitch at all.

So I think they're all pretty stealthy in operation.

I doubt it ever even kicks in with the Hensley Cub on there with the more recent F250 rental trucks, since I often forget to push the tow mode button on the shift-stalk & never notice a difference - except for the AT shift points.

I understand that the 2008> Cayenne Nav screen automatically notifies that it has a trailer hitched & sets all the trailer mode, shift mapping, etc. for you - & IIRC the 2004-06 with the factory tow options does so as well.

However, several Cay-S & D owners who tow Airstreams up to 25' - 27' - 30' on the AirForums website have mentioned that the Sport mode has less frequent unwanted upshifting when towing, so thanx for reinforcing that point!

As for air suspension - while I do hear the benefits of it - I'd prefer old school steel for longevity & less maintenance (air bags & pumps, valves, etc. will need replacing), since I keep my vehicles basically forever, & don't want to be 20 years out trying to find NLA unobtanium Porsche air suspension parts!

As far as obsolete electronics & computers in the newer cars .... well that will be a HUGE problem for the future car collecting hobby!

Happy 4th!
Tom
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69gaugeman

You, then, my friend, are a fool. The air suspension is the SAME as the VW Touareg. They rarely fail (my anecdotal evidence, had VW / have Cayenne TT).

The improvement in towing with the air suspension is VERY noticeable. I tow a 7000 llb boat and it is actually more stable and easier to drive then when I towed with a Ford F150 or Dodge Ram 1500...

My cayenne has 230,000 kms on it and none of the air suspension has been repaired or replaced. The Touareg had 220,000 km with no issues.

Tom_T

First of all - you're - since this topic of mine is asking about the 2008> Trailer Stability Control .... NOT air suspension!

Second - there is really no reason to get insulting about this AS item pal!!

But to reply to your Air Suspension tirade - IMO the steel suspension with PSM & PTM will perform close to/equally as well in towing our 3-3500# vintage Avion trailer with a Hensley Cub WD/Anti-sway hitch, or 4-4500# car hauler with the 914 on-board (as stated in my OP #1) - & a CT, CTS, CGTS & the AS option are all unnecessary & costly over kill for our needs!

Moreover, KMs & miles are only ONE factor for wear & replacements!

Plus that is ONLY 137 - 142,000 miles which you've driven your Cayenne & Taureg! .... & I'll bet that you only owned each for +/- 3-5 years!

My current 3 classic cars have 172k, 194k & 218k miles! - & the latter 2 are still DDs!

However, as I stated in my post above, AGE is also a replacement factor for the AS system parts.

Since both the Taureg & Cayenne only came out in 2003 - the OLDEST can only be +/-12-13 years old now, & parts are still being supplied by Porsche as of now! .... so NOT EVEN CLOSE to the 20+ years I stated!

Germany requires auto makers to support their cars for only 15 years IIRC - the US only 10!

Ergo, ANY Taureg or Cayenne have NOT YET passed into the "dark ages" of non-support, where parts become NLA & unobtanium!

So your anecdotal experience doesn't even cross into the 15-30+ year area of keeping a car on the road - not even close!!!!

As I noted in my post which you quoted - I said "20 years out"!!!!
I have a 1973 914-2.0, a 1985 BMW 325e, & a 1988 VW Vanagon Westfalia (mileages noted respectively above) - so I know EXACTLY what a PITA & costly effort it is to find unobtanium parts!

I have considerably more miles on them than yours - 40-80k more! .... not to mention probably 15-40 years more age on them!!!!

I beg to differ with you pal - but I am NOT the fool to look at steel springs, because 10-20+ years from now, my steel sprung CS will still be a usable vehicle - while most air-baggers will be either VERY expensive to maintain & replace those parts, or will be garage queens mostly sitting!!!!

High tech is wonderful - for as long as it works!

So now let's stay On Topic of my Trailer Stability Control Question .... shall we!!??

Tom
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Tom
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69gaugeman

Fair enough. I was only speaking to towing with and without air suspension. While I agree that with your thought process on choosing steel suspension is valid for you, the current air suspended vehicles are 12 and 13 years old and and not so far away from 15 years.

Having said that you might not want to look at the Cayenne at all, as there are so many computers in it. Lots of parts are extremely expensive now, let alone when they become NLA.

Also OT I had a 73 914 2.0 until I got married and had kids... Loved that car... might have one again some day....

wrinkledpants

Wow. First off - your posts suck to read. BOLD and underlined? We're not 5 years old; we can pick out the important bits from your posts without having to draw all this attention to what you think is important.

Second - If your worried about parts availability (and I'm not), then don't buy a Cayenne; buy a Toyota. Your logic makes......almost...... zero sense. You'll pay twice as much money for PSM version 2, but you won't pay half the money for a 955 with air suspension because you think Porsche is going to abandon the chassis all together?

On top of that, you'll spend some time on a condescending post about how all your years of experience owning old cars is somehow indicative of what's to come with the Cayenne. Does all those years of experience also include some basic math. I don't believe rhetorical questions need a question mark.

If you plan on owning the Cayenne for 20 years then your gas, insurance, and other running costs are going to dwarf any money spent on the suspension. The depreciation you'll lose on a 2008 Cayenne will be more than the cost of replacing an entire air suspension system. If you pay 30K for a 2008, and plan on owning it 20 years, I bet you lose 25K in depreciation. If you drive 8K miles a year, you'll spend 3K a year in gas and insurance, and that's conservatively assuming you pay an average gas price of $3.50. If we figure an average annual repair bill (tires, oil changes, etc) of $500, than tack on another $10K to the number below. if you've owned Porsches long enough, you'll know that number is low.

So, just depreciation, gas, and insurance will cost you you $71,000, with repair costs, that's $81K. That's not an opinion, that's just math. But, at least you'll have coil shocks so you don't have to pay a few thousand to replace that crappy air suspension.

Tom_T

Again - even further

But thanx anyway for your lecture, which I neither need at 63, nor asked for bud!

You buy your cars, & I'll buy mine - my way.

PS - I do not want freaking air suspension - leave it!

I'm really tired of folks jumping in on that & how I should look at CT & CTS etc. of OT stuff on every topic question I post regarding something I need to know, as I look for a CS. So yeah - I get frustrated & think that OT people are not reading the question at hand, then I go back with bold etc. to call it out.

Bye
Tom
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Tom_T

Can we please get back on topic, & give me the feedback from folks who have towed with a Cayenne.

I'm specifically asking for those Towing Experience with 2008> Trailer Stability Control vs. Pre-06 without it -

.... preferably from those who have towed the "Before" & "After" versions, to have seen any difference.

PS - And again - just to be clear here for all the 955 owners who seem to be getting put out of joint by my asking about the later 958's 08> Trailer Stability Control - we actually REALLY like the 2006 CS Titanium Ed. in Iceland Silver (a 6 month only July-Dec. 06 silvery blue color). That is our top pick preferred CS to get.

But I want to make sure that the 08> Trailer Stability Control is not enough of a game changer - along with the other Series 2 (or S.1.5) improvements - are not serious enough game changers to push us away from that preferred model/color.

So I'm willing to do the extra work to verify that an 06 CS-TI has had the coolant pipes & ignition coils factory updates in a timely manner, as well as the typical cardan shaft/mid-bearing, front lower control arms/bushings, timing chain tensioners/rollers & water pump, etc. wear & service items all done in a timely manner.

.

So what are the tow-folks' comparative opinions of before & after 2008 Cayenne towing performance - without vs. with the "new" Trailer Stability Control of the PSM-2 respectively?

TIA
Tom
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