I found *my* SUV!
#16
Burning Brakes
#17
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#20
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I started off looking at the V6 958 but was thrilled when the diesel hit our shores in the middle of my search and jumped on it. I've wanted to switch to diesel for awhile as I believe it is a more realistic short-term solution to the ecological impact of cars than hybrids or pure EVs. As far as how it is in city driving, you won't see into the 30s like some of us talk about but you'll still get low to mid 20s depending on your driving style. The lowest I've had the MFD tell me (it's really optimistic) is 22 when I got stuck in DC traffic for an hour (~10 miles) which probably was really in the 19-20 range. Regardless it's always going to be better than the V6.
I'm a bit of a metrics geek so I've been tracking my MPG based on the reported miles and what the pump says. I also do a calculation of how it stacks up against the V6 (based on the EPA estimates between the two and then calculated against my real world numbers) and was seeing $15-$25 savings for the same distance. I added the Blue Spark Pro + Boost control and that savings has doubled. The savings varies based on the price of diesel vs premium of course, but over all over the 10k I've done so far I've "saved" enough to cover the cost of both my 5k oil change and the BSP.
Another advantage of the diesel over the V6 (or V8) is that it is a turbo. That means (as I touched on above) there are cheap tuning options to get more power and fuel economy out of it if you were so inclined.
Regardless of the model you get, there is a lot of money to be saved by having your service done by an Indy shop instead of the dealer (assuming you can't take care of it yourself). What dealers want for an oil change on these is obscene and there is no justification for it (I have 5 local dealers that range from 425 to 675 for oil change service, I did it myself for less than $100 and others have reported similar costs by taking the oil and filter to an Indy (or even a VW dealer)).
I'm not big on leases, but from what I gather Porsche has some of the worst penalties and residuals in the sub-100k market.
As others have mentioned, depreciation was a killer on the 955s and 957s. So far (with some exceptions) the 958s in general still seems to be holding their value, but I expect a hit next year with the updated 2015s. Something else to consider is that in other makes the diesel variants tend to hold the value a bit better.
There are two options I highly suggest. The first is the two package which while you can add it after the fact, it's much cheaper to get it installed from the factory. The second is the roof rails as these can not be added after the fact and using the after market "gutter mount" systems only allow about half the weight that the factory system does. I'm also big fan of the Xenon HIDs over the Halogens.
My spec was:
Blue exterior
Black partial leather interior
Premium Package (parking sensors, PCM, 14-way seats, moon roof, Xenons, heated seats)
Rear sunblinds
tow package
roof rails
black exterior package
heated multifunction steering wheel (part of premium?)
Servtronic/Power Steering Plus
Model designation delete (removes "Cayenne" from the rear and "diesel" on the sides)
It's also in the shop right now for some work and I'm swapping in the black headlights and taillights which are factory options (and much cheaper than doing it after the fact).
Edit: Oh yeah, if you buy/lease a new one and have it built to your spec, you can do a European delivery. Most dealers won't give you any kind of discount on the car (Porsche makes them pay the option fee that used to get passed onto the customers), but everyone that does it swears it's the best thing they've done (I talked myself out of it for a few more options within my budget).
I'm a bit of a metrics geek so I've been tracking my MPG based on the reported miles and what the pump says. I also do a calculation of how it stacks up against the V6 (based on the EPA estimates between the two and then calculated against my real world numbers) and was seeing $15-$25 savings for the same distance. I added the Blue Spark Pro + Boost control and that savings has doubled. The savings varies based on the price of diesel vs premium of course, but over all over the 10k I've done so far I've "saved" enough to cover the cost of both my 5k oil change and the BSP.
Another advantage of the diesel over the V6 (or V8) is that it is a turbo. That means (as I touched on above) there are cheap tuning options to get more power and fuel economy out of it if you were so inclined.
Regardless of the model you get, there is a lot of money to be saved by having your service done by an Indy shop instead of the dealer (assuming you can't take care of it yourself). What dealers want for an oil change on these is obscene and there is no justification for it (I have 5 local dealers that range from 425 to 675 for oil change service, I did it myself for less than $100 and others have reported similar costs by taking the oil and filter to an Indy (or even a VW dealer)).
I'm not big on leases, but from what I gather Porsche has some of the worst penalties and residuals in the sub-100k market.
As others have mentioned, depreciation was a killer on the 955s and 957s. So far (with some exceptions) the 958s in general still seems to be holding their value, but I expect a hit next year with the updated 2015s. Something else to consider is that in other makes the diesel variants tend to hold the value a bit better.
There are two options I highly suggest. The first is the two package which while you can add it after the fact, it's much cheaper to get it installed from the factory. The second is the roof rails as these can not be added after the fact and using the after market "gutter mount" systems only allow about half the weight that the factory system does. I'm also big fan of the Xenon HIDs over the Halogens.
My spec was:
Blue exterior
Black partial leather interior
Premium Package (parking sensors, PCM, 14-way seats, moon roof, Xenons, heated seats)
Rear sunblinds
tow package
roof rails
black exterior package
heated multifunction steering wheel (part of premium?)
Servtronic/Power Steering Plus
Model designation delete (removes "Cayenne" from the rear and "diesel" on the sides)
It's also in the shop right now for some work and I'm swapping in the black headlights and taillights which are factory options (and much cheaper than doing it after the fact).
Edit: Oh yeah, if you buy/lease a new one and have it built to your spec, you can do a European delivery. Most dealers won't give you any kind of discount on the car (Porsche makes them pay the option fee that used to get passed onto the customers), but everyone that does it swears it's the best thing they've done (I talked myself out of it for a few more options within my budget).
Your cayenne sounds great! I too chuckled at the heated steering wheel. I live in the desert. I'm very impressed at your cost saving calcs... I too enjoy a good romp with an excel spreadsheet - and being able to really see the savings on paper is always gratifying. Was this your first porsche?
Last edited by akillian24; 01-12-2014 at 11:22 AM. Reason: Not enough tea this morning.
#21
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Apparently the gas engine goes 10K between oil changes? That's new to me. I've always been a 3-5K girl. Also the dealer mentioned the major services come earlier on a diesel than the V6.
#22
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#23
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However informative, certainly not my favorite post of the thread. LOL. Thank you very much. :-)
#24
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We looked at used.. and DH isn't super keen on it. He admits it's illogical especially with regard to financial savvy.. but he just prefers new.
#25
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80% city driving? Definitely go diesel. That's a 4800# vehicle, before even counting 26 gallons of fuel, driver, passengers, groceries, cargo. Plus the smallest tires available are 10" wide, which adds to both wind resistance and rolling resistance.
Regarding the price of fuel; where I do most of my driving, there is no appreciable price difference between #2 diesel and premium gasoline. In fact - in some parts of Chicago - I've found diesel selling even cheaper than regular. Yes, even the V6 requires premium unleaded. I had to top up the tank before returning a base V6 loaner , and found a "use 93 octane" sticker inside the fuel filler door. On a car like this you don't consider price per gallon as much as you do fuel cost per mile. By way of example, I can get over 800 (highway) miles per tank out mine. Admittedly, I don't do much metro driving (maybe 10%). But when I do, it's never been under 20 mpg. You simply can't do that with any of the gasoline engined Cayennes.
I've lost track of how many owners report disabling the engine Stop/Start "feature" on the gasoline models, stating the meager fuel saving is not worth the simple annoyance factor. I think Porsche simply pulled that out of the VW parts bin without giving it their own engineering tweaks.
And 3% financing sounds bad to me. I initially got 1.79% through the dealer, then refinanced it some months later for 1.49% (yes, Navy Federal).
Drive both the base V6 and the diesel before you place your order. The results should pretty much solidify your ultimate choice.
//greg//
Regarding the price of fuel; where I do most of my driving, there is no appreciable price difference between #2 diesel and premium gasoline. In fact - in some parts of Chicago - I've found diesel selling even cheaper than regular. Yes, even the V6 requires premium unleaded. I had to top up the tank before returning a base V6 loaner , and found a "use 93 octane" sticker inside the fuel filler door. On a car like this you don't consider price per gallon as much as you do fuel cost per mile. By way of example, I can get over 800 (highway) miles per tank out mine. Admittedly, I don't do much metro driving (maybe 10%). But when I do, it's never been under 20 mpg. You simply can't do that with any of the gasoline engined Cayennes.
I've lost track of how many owners report disabling the engine Stop/Start "feature" on the gasoline models, stating the meager fuel saving is not worth the simple annoyance factor. I think Porsche simply pulled that out of the VW parts bin without giving it their own engineering tweaks.
And 3% financing sounds bad to me. I initially got 1.79% through the dealer, then refinanced it some months later for 1.49% (yes, Navy Federal).
Drive both the base V6 and the diesel before you place your order. The results should pretty much solidify your ultimate choice.
//greg//
Ok.. so we need to look at other financing options.
#26
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#28
the funny thing about Cayennes is that the v6, V8, and turbo all get the same mileage! They just get to 60mph faster…
not sure about the new-fangled diesels, but in the "old days" when I was growing up (i.e. 1979 mercedes 240d) there was almost no maintenance! oil, oil filter, air filter, brake pads, tires, a couple of batteries in >250,000 miles. that was it!!!
if you buy used a few years old, fuel mileage is not a factor. you probably won't put enough miles on it to make up the price of a new diesel with better mileage.
if you buy new, seems like the diesel is the best option, especially for around town. the mileage is much better. there was essentially no difference in city vs highway mileage for the mercedes diesel. unlike the cayenne, it was so under powered that you essentially used the "gas" peddle as on/off and drove it flat out 100% of the time. very durable car though…
i did a european delivery on a BMW and loved it!!! put the first 1800 miles on german, italian, monaco-an (?), and french roads...
i just got my first one, an 06 titanium edition, last year. I love the titanium package.
I would have to put >150,000 miles over the next 10 - 30 years to make up the cost differential of a new one.
not sure about the new-fangled diesels, but in the "old days" when I was growing up (i.e. 1979 mercedes 240d) there was almost no maintenance! oil, oil filter, air filter, brake pads, tires, a couple of batteries in >250,000 miles. that was it!!!
if you buy used a few years old, fuel mileage is not a factor. you probably won't put enough miles on it to make up the price of a new diesel with better mileage.
if you buy new, seems like the diesel is the best option, especially for around town. the mileage is much better. there was essentially no difference in city vs highway mileage for the mercedes diesel. unlike the cayenne, it was so under powered that you essentially used the "gas" peddle as on/off and drove it flat out 100% of the time. very durable car though…
i did a european delivery on a BMW and loved it!!! put the first 1800 miles on german, italian, monaco-an (?), and french roads...
i just got my first one, an 06 titanium edition, last year. I love the titanium package.
I would have to put >150,000 miles over the next 10 - 30 years to make up the cost differential of a new one.
#29
If this is your first Porsche (from this dealer), I'd go in at 4% and expect maybe 2. Play up that you are buying their spec car that has options you wouldn't be interested in if you built it yourself. If you have other dealers in your area, take the spec to them and see what they'd do. New comers get blinded by the badge (and the dealers play into that), but other than the rare cars with limited build slots (e.g. 918s, TTSs, etc..) it's the same game you play with any dealer.
#30
Porsche has gotten either scared or greedy and has a 5k OCI even when the VW and Audi cars using the same engine have higher intervals. You are also supposed to drain the water from the fuel filter at 10k and replace it at 20k which are probably also on the aggressive side. Then there is the AdBlue, but that's simple and cheap too if you don't let the dealer rob you.