Toddimus

Hi there!
Been a while since I've posted. Just a month ago, we added a new member to our family, a 2008 CTT with 50k miles. It's a non-CPO car bought from a Ford dealership = I'm on my own for repairs.

It's the wife's car, but I get to drive it a lot. Absolutely love it... except for this "little" problem that popped up on the way back from the Monterey Historic races this last weekend. We were in traffic and I noticed some slight radiator fluid smell. It wasn't that hot at all (outside or the engine temperature). I figured it was another car in the traffic. Then, we stopped to get some dinner and when my wife put it in park... a HUGE cloud of steam came out from under the hood. Coolant was peeing all over the place from under the driver's side, rear of the engine.

Time to call a tow truck!!

Fast forward a couple of days... I have since read all the way through all 25 pages of the Coolant pipes A-Z sticky thread. And I've done a search in the Cayenne forum but have come up short (aside from the deluge of pre 2008 cooling pipe fiasco stories).
Problem is... aside from a couple of posts in the A-Z thread (see below), the new aluminum pipe upgrade kit from the factory doesn't apply to the 2008 CTT. They had "fixed" the earlier problem, but not my problem.

1. The one from Tony Callas freaked me out a bit! Pulling the engine would suck!!
2. I think my issue is the same as the one leek had...

I borrowed a "camera on a bendy stick" (aka boroscope) from a friend. Sorry for the poor quality photo. It was an iPhone picture of the camera's screen. Here's what I found:



It looks like a sleeve worked its way all the way out of the "water distributor" cast aluminum piece on the back of the engine (p/n 948.106.061.03). Also looks like it has a replacement part number when I search parts diagrams. It's been updated to 948.106.061.04. Maybe they've had a problem with this part too??
The sleeve part that completely slid out is circled in red in the two screenshots below. The rubber hose is still firmly attached (clamped) to the end of the sleeve, which is hanging just outside the aluminum casting, from whence it came.


Any thoughts on what I can do here? It looks like it was "glued" in there originally, with some adhesive. One thought is to try to "re-glue" it with some better type of adhesive. This would be the least invasive and least expensive route! But how permanent and durable would it be?

Of course, I could replace the whole water distributor part, but that looks like a real pain in the @ss! Sounds like that is what happened for leek.

Worst case, it looks like I may have to pull the engine to get at it. It's buried under there. Maybe that's what Tony Callas was talking about when he said the engine would need to be pulled. I sure hope not!!

I'm not afraid of getting my hands dirty. I've done quite a bit of work on my cars over the years (a few air cooled 911s), but I don't think I have the time or inclination to pull the engine on this one.

Any words of wisdom from the folks here? Thanks in advance!!
-Todd

extanker

is it insured for fire and theft?

DWPC

No hose clamp on a pressurized hose? That's scary.

Toddimus

There's a clamp on the hose attaching it to the sleeve that came out. It's just that the sleeve came out of the aluminum casting.

Slow Guy

Oh, that sucks. I'd be willing to bet its a "drop engine" kind of repair, it's really tight back there. Not a job I would want to do.

Best of luck.

DWPC

Its only five years old. Wouldn't hurt to bring it to Porsche attention. That part should last forever and its failure is clearly a mfrg flaw.

touareg

I would be curious to see if you can take a pic of your engine bay and where you snuck the camera in? I assume someone could then see if the pipe is either leaking or starting to work its way out.

Looking at the other post stating over heating cause the fitting to leak, I wonder if you can test your cooling fans manually to make sure they work OK. Or check the ground block for the wiring, wonder where that is located.

This thread talks about the front of the engine leaking:

https://rennlist.com/forums/porsche-...l#post10686742

Stole this from Porsche52, pig grief counsler.

Vehicle Type: Cayenne S/GTS/Turbo/Turbo S
Model Year: As of 2008
Concern: Coolant leak from the coolant regulator housing
Information: When carrying out work on the coolant regulator housing that involves removing the intake socket, labled "A" in image, the previously used assembly grease 000.043.204.68 must no longer be used when installing the replacement intake socket. The reason for this change is that if too much assembly grease is used on the sealing rings during installation, the sealing rings may become deformed when the intake socket is installed and therefore may not seal properly. If a complaint of coolant leak from this intake socket is received, replace the intake socket with 948.106.101.02 which is fitted with upgraded round sealing rings.

Action Required: Use assembly gel 000.043.205.93 as the assembly grease for the intake socket.
Information! The amount of gel required for fitting must be diluted with water (50:50).

Parts Info: 000.043.205.93 -> Grease (assembly gel, 100g tube)
948.106.101.02 -> Intake socket, round sealing rings

touareg

What is more interesting, If I pull a vin for a 2008 Turbo of ebay it shows no indication what part is in the car. The number one represents the part number parenthesis I think implies superseded

1 948 106 061 03

and

(1) 948 106 061 04

Toddimus

For the uninitiated... ... The sleeve (or metal tube) is right below the high pressure fuel pump (HPFP). If you are sitting on the top of the radiator area, facing the rear of the car with the rear "beauty" cover removed, it is just below the fuel pump and slightly towards the left (i.e centerline of the vehicle). The fuel pump is driven by the driver's side camshaft, on the back of the engine. It is mounted with some long, 10mm hex standoff/spacer parts that mount to a plate. The sleeve is right below the lowest hex standoff part.

You can barely see it with the naked eye, but it was just visible before I got the "bendy cam". I'll try to take a photo of the location tomorrow.

I'll check on the fans. That's a good idea. I hadn't noticed temperatures getting too high, so I don't think that's the problem, but definitely a good thing to verify!!

I'll send you a PM about your second post. I'm curious if my VIN comes up with either, neither or both parts.

As an aside, I'm thinking I may be able to get at it by removing the fuel pump. With that out of the way, I think I will be able to MacGuyver a permanent solution. The thought is to find some good adhesive/sealant material to re-apply to the mating of the sleeve and cast aluminum part. Then, the MacGyver part comes in... I'll drill and tap a hole in the top of the cast part and insert a bolt through the cast part and into the sleeve to act as a stop to prevent the sleeve from coming back out again. Of course, I'll add some sealant to the new threaded hole too.

I think the only parts I'd need for the MacGuyver fix would be the adhesive, a bolt and maybe an O-ring to seal between the head and fuel pump. Oh, and a couple of jugs of super Porsche antifreeze concoction.

Thoughts?

Toddimus

It is definitely a manufacturing flaw. 5 model years old and 50k miles... things like this shouldn't be breaking yet (or ever, for that matter!).

Agreed, it probably wouldn't hurt to bring it to their attention, but I live about 45 minutes away from a dealership. I imagine they'd want to see it themselves and she ain't driving anywhere until this gets fixed. Also, given their reluctance to deal with warranty (let alone out of warranty) issues makes me very skeptical that they would do anything about it. You are right though, I should talk to a service adviser.

Toddimus

Well, I decided to remove the high pressure fuel pump and have a closer look. In the process, I took a few photos to show the more exact location to look for and some shots of the the culprit caught red-handed. That would be me with the red hands because of the scraped knuckles I received on the way in there!

The big arrow shows the general location of the deep hole it lives in... (disregard that green wire, I was using it as a pointer for other photos)


The little red arrow points to the end of the tube that came out of the casting. You can just barely see it, but it is visible from a certain angle. On a vehicle with no problem like this, you should see the rubber heater hose all the way up to the aluminum casting. In this photo, you can just see the end of the tube where it has fully come out of the aluminum casting.


And here it is in all of its glory. I removed the high pressure fuel pump to get in there and have some room. You can see the remnants of the brownish-yellow adhesive/sealant stuff they used that's still on the tube end. What you can't see that well is the bore of the cast part. It seems to be polished smooth. Now why the hell would they do such a thing? The adhesive needs something to grab onto!


Since removing the pump wasn't really that bad, I'm thinking about trying some new adhesive stuff. Any suggestions? It has to be high temperature with high shear strength and be chemically resistant to coolant. Also, I figure I'll scuff up both surfaces to give the new adhesive something to sink its "teeth" into.

If new adhesive doesn't work, then I'll go to plan B. Haven't figured out what plan B is yet, but I'll cross that bridge if I come to it. The original adhesive lasted 50k miles, so hopefully a better application this time will last another 50k+ miles.

What's your favorite adhesive/sealant goop for this application? I'm all ears!

deilenberger

If you do have to replace the water distributor.. on my '06 (similar engine) - there was a leak around one of the blind plugs in the casting. Dealer tried tightening it, which cracked the casting. They replaced it without engine removal.... so it can be done, but bet it involves a LOT of cursing and skinned knuckles.

Luckily - that was found (after a 2 year chase for the source of a coolant odor) 3 days before my CPO expired. The distributor wasn't all that expensive (around $265 or so I think) - they billed it out at 5 hours labor.

If you can get it dry and clean, use JB-Weld to hold it in, it's never coming out..

XR4Tim

Just tap the hole out and thread in a pipe fitting with an appropriately-sized barb for the coolant hose. Doesn't look like the easiest location to tap though. This is the same type of failure the GT1 engines are seeing.

wds928

+1 on the JB Weld.

Slow Guy

I'd be curious how much expansion/contraction the JB Weld could handle (dissimilar metals).