WSJ: Dan Neil on the Cayenne Diesel.
11-30-2012, 10:57 PM
#1
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
WSJ: Dan Neil on the Cayenne Diesel.
My favorite auto writer on the CD. Not exactly pounding the table in favor of it:
2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel
IN MY CONTINUING war on U.S. customary units of weights and measures, I would like to point out that, on Porsche's U.S. website, the fuel-injection pressure of the Cayenne Diesel is listed as 29,007 pounds per square inch.
Really? Is that the number the people at Robert Bosch had in mind when they were modeling the V6's common-rail, direct-injection fuel system? Yah, neunundzwanzig tausend…und sieben! Why don't we join the civilized world and call that 200 megapascals, or the elegantly convertible 2,000 bar? What's with the drams per hectare?
Metric, people. Get with the program.
This is the second near-six-figure, diesel-powered Panzer featured here in two weeks, after the Mercedes-Benz GL350 BlueTec. And it won't be the last, as I expect Audi to kindly send me its new Q7 diesel SUV, VW its Touareg V6 TDI and BMW BMW.XE +0.41% its new diesel-powered X5 xDrive35d, which sounds like it was named by Langley.
The diesel segment in America is essentially German air space, with Mercedes, BMW and the Volkswagen Group VOW3.XE +0.39% cohort of Audi, VW brand and Porsche responsible for nearly all the offerings, about two dozen, not counting trucks. This year's crop of U.S.-spec oil-burners has among them a car I absolutely covet: the BMW 35d Sport Wagon with a turbodiesel six. Give me that all-wheel drive, too, Mr. Car Salesman. That is so nasty!
Yes, the Germans have jumped in with both feet, and they have been rewarded with pretty flat demand, actually. Diesel market penetration in the U.S. hovers around 3%, and while sales of diesels are up 27% in the first half of 2012, according to the Diesel Technology Forum, they're up from a very small number.
Why is demand flat? One reason is the stubborn price premium on diesel fuel, which was running 15% higher than regular gasoline—a whopping 60 cents per gallon—in the last week in November, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Whatever mileage advantages diesel vehicles offer are being largely zeroed out at the pump.
The vehicles themselves carry a diesel penalty. The base price of our test car this week, an outrageously well-made 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel, is $3,900 higher than that of the comparably equipped base model with a gasoline six and Tiptronic automatic transmission. I've just run some numbers: In order to recoup, in fuel savings, the additional outlay for the Cayenne Diesel you would have to own it for about 11.9 years. May I suggest an air freshener?
Also, to comply with prevailing U.S. emissions standards on nitrogen oxides, or NOx, these big diesels require fairly complicated systems of postcombustion treatment with a water-based urea solution, called AdBlue. Injected into the exhaust stream, the solution's ammonia reacts in the de-NOx catalyzer to form nitrogen and water vapor.
It's all very top-flight chemistry, but not exactly carefree motoring. Topping off the Cayenne's 22-liter AdBlue reservoir is part of the regular service schedule, but it's entirely possible to run out of the stuff between services, depending on how you drive. Exhausting the AdBlue will immobilize the vehicle. The solution itself is cheap—under $50 from retailers and truck stops—but refilling the AdBlue yourself can be a little tricky, as ideally you'd want to evacuate the remaining solution from the tank before refilling. In any event, the AdBlue constitutes just one more gauge for owners to eye warily.
“Porsche's diesel-powered SUV is incredibly tight and well-balanced—and there's no reason to buy one unless you just love diesels.”
Another compromise has to do with the full-size spare tire, which goes missing in the Cayenne Diesel, displaced by the AdBlue reservoir (diesel models get a space-saver spare).
Diesel advocates love to push the cost-of-ownership pencil, but I'm here to tell you, in the case of the Cayenne Diesel, the economics are horrible and unsubtle. Not to mention that the diesel weighs 320 pounds more than the base gas-powered Cayenne Tiptronic. We are talking about a vehicle—a Porsche, no less—with a weight-to-power ratio of about 20 pounds per horsepower (4,795 lbs./240 hp), almost exactly that of a Hyundai Veloster. With 406 pound-feet of torque and eight forward gears, the diesel chortles and snorts to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, a couple of ticks quicker than the V6. The diesel will certainly barrel up an on-ramp well enough. The upshifts whisper, barely detectable in the midst of a very refined full-throttle commotion. Engine elasticity is reasonable. Porsche lists the 50-to-75-mph acceleration at 5.3 seconds. But above those speeds, the diesel's throttle response becomes deeply measured and wafting, never punchy nor particularly fun.
Towing rating is the same for both V6 and diesel: 7,716 pounds, with a braked trailer.
Like all other Cayennes, the Diesel has tight, well-sorted, premium German handling. The chassis is insanely rigid, and the suspension (double wishbones in front, multilinks in back) strikes an excellent balance of ride compliance and cornering composure. The steering is responsive on-center going straight ahead and nicely weighted and precise while cornering. Our test vehicle had the optional air suspension ($3,980) as well as the staggering 21-inch alloy rims and sport tires. Torque-vectoring all-wheel drive, adaptive air suspension, 18-way adaptive sport seats. All told, a lot to love, for a mere $37,000 or so over the base price.
The point is that, performance-wise, the Cayenne Diesel isn't wildly better, or worse, than the version with the gasoline V6. So, if the performance is a draw and the economics disadvantage the diesel, the real question is: Why would anyone want the Cayenne Diesel?
It's because diesel is a car geek's fetish. Take the range thing: The Cayenne Diesel's one towering superlative over the gas V6 model is its highway range, 765 miles, give or take a small state. I'm pretty sure I could cross the country with only two fuel stops. And I must say there's some illicit thrill in watching what appears to be a stuck fuel gauge for days on end.
But it's meaningless, an irrelevant benchmark, a number without consequence. Are you planning to drive for 14 hours straight? When are you going to empty your own reservoir?
There's also the whole gesamtkunstwerk of diesels, the reassuring, steady throb of the engine, the masculine, heavy-duty cackle, heavily muted, like an agrarian race memory. It's one thing to go fast in a tightly strung, gas-powered vehicle. Going fast in a diesel is a different and strangely larger-bore experience. I can understand why some contrarians might prefer it.
My biggest problem with the Cayenne Diesel is its provenance. I think a diesel SUV with 240 hp, sharing its powertrain in most respects with corporate cousins Audi Q7 and VW Touareg TDI, is below the line for Porsche, brand-wise. Such a vehicle lacks authenticity, and the performance lacks the minimal frisson one must associate with Porsche. In its quest to become the world's largest car company, VW Group must not allow Porsche to be drawn into the badge-engineering vortex.
As to whether any of that should matter to you, please consult your own conversion tables.
2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel
IN MY CONTINUING war on U.S. customary units of weights and measures, I would like to point out that, on Porsche's U.S. website, the fuel-injection pressure of the Cayenne Diesel is listed as 29,007 pounds per square inch.
Really? Is that the number the people at Robert Bosch had in mind when they were modeling the V6's common-rail, direct-injection fuel system? Yah, neunundzwanzig tausend…und sieben! Why don't we join the civilized world and call that 200 megapascals, or the elegantly convertible 2,000 bar? What's with the drams per hectare?
Metric, people. Get with the program.
This is the second near-six-figure, diesel-powered Panzer featured here in two weeks, after the Mercedes-Benz GL350 BlueTec. And it won't be the last, as I expect Audi to kindly send me its new Q7 diesel SUV, VW its Touareg V6 TDI and BMW BMW.XE +0.41% its new diesel-powered X5 xDrive35d, which sounds like it was named by Langley.
The diesel segment in America is essentially German air space, with Mercedes, BMW and the Volkswagen Group VOW3.XE +0.39% cohort of Audi, VW brand and Porsche responsible for nearly all the offerings, about two dozen, not counting trucks. This year's crop of U.S.-spec oil-burners has among them a car I absolutely covet: the BMW 35d Sport Wagon with a turbodiesel six. Give me that all-wheel drive, too, Mr. Car Salesman. That is so nasty!
Yes, the Germans have jumped in with both feet, and they have been rewarded with pretty flat demand, actually. Diesel market penetration in the U.S. hovers around 3%, and while sales of diesels are up 27% in the first half of 2012, according to the Diesel Technology Forum, they're up from a very small number.
Why is demand flat? One reason is the stubborn price premium on diesel fuel, which was running 15% higher than regular gasoline—a whopping 60 cents per gallon—in the last week in November, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration. Whatever mileage advantages diesel vehicles offer are being largely zeroed out at the pump.
The vehicles themselves carry a diesel penalty. The base price of our test car this week, an outrageously well-made 2013 Porsche Cayenne Diesel, is $3,900 higher than that of the comparably equipped base model with a gasoline six and Tiptronic automatic transmission. I've just run some numbers: In order to recoup, in fuel savings, the additional outlay for the Cayenne Diesel you would have to own it for about 11.9 years. May I suggest an air freshener?
Also, to comply with prevailing U.S. emissions standards on nitrogen oxides, or NOx, these big diesels require fairly complicated systems of postcombustion treatment with a water-based urea solution, called AdBlue. Injected into the exhaust stream, the solution's ammonia reacts in the de-NOx catalyzer to form nitrogen and water vapor.
It's all very top-flight chemistry, but not exactly carefree motoring. Topping off the Cayenne's 22-liter AdBlue reservoir is part of the regular service schedule, but it's entirely possible to run out of the stuff between services, depending on how you drive. Exhausting the AdBlue will immobilize the vehicle. The solution itself is cheap—under $50 from retailers and truck stops—but refilling the AdBlue yourself can be a little tricky, as ideally you'd want to evacuate the remaining solution from the tank before refilling. In any event, the AdBlue constitutes just one more gauge for owners to eye warily.
“Porsche's diesel-powered SUV is incredibly tight and well-balanced—and there's no reason to buy one unless you just love diesels.”
Another compromise has to do with the full-size spare tire, which goes missing in the Cayenne Diesel, displaced by the AdBlue reservoir (diesel models get a space-saver spare).
Diesel advocates love to push the cost-of-ownership pencil, but I'm here to tell you, in the case of the Cayenne Diesel, the economics are horrible and unsubtle. Not to mention that the diesel weighs 320 pounds more than the base gas-powered Cayenne Tiptronic. We are talking about a vehicle—a Porsche, no less—with a weight-to-power ratio of about 20 pounds per horsepower (4,795 lbs./240 hp), almost exactly that of a Hyundai Veloster. With 406 pound-feet of torque and eight forward gears, the diesel chortles and snorts to 60 mph in 7.2 seconds, a couple of ticks quicker than the V6. The diesel will certainly barrel up an on-ramp well enough. The upshifts whisper, barely detectable in the midst of a very refined full-throttle commotion. Engine elasticity is reasonable. Porsche lists the 50-to-75-mph acceleration at 5.3 seconds. But above those speeds, the diesel's throttle response becomes deeply measured and wafting, never punchy nor particularly fun.
Towing rating is the same for both V6 and diesel: 7,716 pounds, with a braked trailer.
Like all other Cayennes, the Diesel has tight, well-sorted, premium German handling. The chassis is insanely rigid, and the suspension (double wishbones in front, multilinks in back) strikes an excellent balance of ride compliance and cornering composure. The steering is responsive on-center going straight ahead and nicely weighted and precise while cornering. Our test vehicle had the optional air suspension ($3,980) as well as the staggering 21-inch alloy rims and sport tires. Torque-vectoring all-wheel drive, adaptive air suspension, 18-way adaptive sport seats. All told, a lot to love, for a mere $37,000 or so over the base price.
The point is that, performance-wise, the Cayenne Diesel isn't wildly better, or worse, than the version with the gasoline V6. So, if the performance is a draw and the economics disadvantage the diesel, the real question is: Why would anyone want the Cayenne Diesel?
It's because diesel is a car geek's fetish. Take the range thing: The Cayenne Diesel's one towering superlative over the gas V6 model is its highway range, 765 miles, give or take a small state. I'm pretty sure I could cross the country with only two fuel stops. And I must say there's some illicit thrill in watching what appears to be a stuck fuel gauge for days on end.
But it's meaningless, an irrelevant benchmark, a number without consequence. Are you planning to drive for 14 hours straight? When are you going to empty your own reservoir?
There's also the whole gesamtkunstwerk of diesels, the reassuring, steady throb of the engine, the masculine, heavy-duty cackle, heavily muted, like an agrarian race memory. It's one thing to go fast in a tightly strung, gas-powered vehicle. Going fast in a diesel is a different and strangely larger-bore experience. I can understand why some contrarians might prefer it.
My biggest problem with the Cayenne Diesel is its provenance. I think a diesel SUV with 240 hp, sharing its powertrain in most respects with corporate cousins Audi Q7 and VW Touareg TDI, is below the line for Porsche, brand-wise. Such a vehicle lacks authenticity, and the performance lacks the minimal frisson one must associate with Porsche. In its quest to become the world's largest car company, VW Group must not allow Porsche to be drawn into the badge-engineering vortex.
As to whether any of that should matter to you, please consult your own conversion tables.
12-01-2012, 01:39 AM
#2
Meh. The numbers say what they say, but I put mine into sport mode yesterday for the first time and I went from already being impressed to having no doubt this is a real Porsche.
For me it also goes beyond the out of pocket impact as well. Diesel is far better for the environment than petrol even before you bring biodiesel into the conversation. Diesel simply wastes far less energy during its refinement.
As far as his calculations go, extrapolating out my likely MPG (based on its rating and what I've done with other petrol cars compared to their ratings) from the gas version and comparing it to the 24 I've so far gotten over shy of 500 miles, I'd be about 1.75 fill ups for each I'll do in the diesel. Since the tanks are roughly the same size, the diesel still comes out ahead for me. Right or wrong, burning the oil is making me think about the economy more and I've apparently adjusted my driving for it. Yet I still have fun driving it and it doesn't let me down (the mpg sweet spot seems to be 70mph!).
I'm glad I got the one I did. I'll still bitch when I have to shell out $145, but I'll do it less often ;-)
For me it also goes beyond the out of pocket impact as well. Diesel is far better for the environment than petrol even before you bring biodiesel into the conversation. Diesel simply wastes far less energy during its refinement.
As far as his calculations go, extrapolating out my likely MPG (based on its rating and what I've done with other petrol cars compared to their ratings) from the gas version and comparing it to the 24 I've so far gotten over shy of 500 miles, I'd be about 1.75 fill ups for each I'll do in the diesel. Since the tanks are roughly the same size, the diesel still comes out ahead for me. Right or wrong, burning the oil is making me think about the economy more and I've apparently adjusted my driving for it. Yet I still have fun driving it and it doesn't let me down (the mpg sweet spot seems to be 70mph!).
I'm glad I got the one I did. I'll still bitch when I have to shell out $145, but I'll do it less often ;-)
12-01-2012, 10:02 PM
#3
Three Wheelin'
Thread Starter
I was surprised, after my own test drive, that he was so hard on the CD. I love reading his columns. He puts out some great stuff in my opinion.
12-02-2012, 01:26 AM
#4
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12-03-2012, 12:15 AM
#6
That's the problem with pricing Porsches. You start off being happy with a base Boxter, start playing with all the "it's just a bit" more things, then all of a sudden you're ordering a GT2
I don't think "I paid more" is the correct "biggest man" measurement. I think it should be who can pay the least
12-03-2012, 10:47 AM
#7
Personally, I agree with you. I get a kick out of the posters who want others to check out their build and list every option in the book. I can afford anything I want, and I just opted for the diesel. What on earth can one do with a turbo on the streets of California? The turbo is the perfect urban commando machine. I will soon order a new 991 and, similarly, my plan is to go with a base car with a manual. I currently have a C2S with 345 hp and the new base is @ 350. The C2S is beast, and I frankly didn't need the power. What can you do with 50 more hp in the 991S? Get on the freeway faster? Too many Americans have the philosophy that if a "little" is good, "everything" must be better. And, there's always the showoff factor.
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12-03-2012, 12:27 PM
#8
Instructor
I just ordered a Cayenne Diesel and I could care less about how long the fuel pay off is versus a gasser. Does the author really think buyers in this segement worry about that kind of thing? If that was the case no Hybrid or electric from any manufacturer would sell at all - the economics make no sense and the battery liabilities (fire, replacement, etc) are huge.
12-03-2012, 12:30 PM
#9
I don't think "I paid more" is the correct "biggest man" measurement. I think it should be who can pay the least.
I can afford anything I want, and I just opted for the diesel. What on earth can one do with a turbo on the streets of California?
White Cayenne V6 Tip + Park distance (wife pleaded on this one) + pano + hitch. Thats it!
Had a budget in mind for "the family SUV", and while testing them all the Cayenne floated my boat! Still stuck to budget.
I can afford anything I want, but did not get there in life by buying everything I wanted!
12-03-2012, 12:48 PM
#10
I just ordered a Cayenne Diesel and I could care less about how long the fuel pay off is versus a gasser. Does the author really think buyers in this segement worry about that kind of thing? If that was the case no Hybrid or electric from any manufacturer would sell at all - the economics make no sense and the battery liabilities (fire, replacement, etc) are huge.
I wasn't remotely counting on it, but it was nice to think that I would see the diesel premium paid off in about 20k based on what diesel vs premium has been running at my usual station. Of course the day I go to pick up my P!g the price flipped and now diesel has been 10-30 cents more expensive
That said, however, its not the cost of the diesel that has changed. Even though its not cheaper anymore, I'm still quite happy that the price continues to be stable as I think that has always been one of its advantages.
12-03-2012, 01:06 PM
#12
While the Diesel cost more than the V-6, it is still less expensive than 5 other version of the Cayenne.
The author forgot to mention that fact. As previously posted, buying what we want is more important than price for the majority of owners.
The author forgot to mention that fact. As previously posted, buying what we want is more important than price for the majority of owners.
12-03-2012, 01:18 PM
#13
Rennlist Member
Author did not factor in diesel resale value during its first 50K miles. My GL is holding value very well under 50K miles. Mileage over 50K depreciates just like any vehicle though.
12-03-2012, 05:28 PM
#14
Instructor
One positive note if you are a believer in "manmade" global warming, the Cayenne diesel is a low carbon play compared to many models, including the Cayenee Hydrid. For folks in this camp the price premium over the gasser could be worth it and the diesel beats the hybrid readily.
12-03-2012, 05:42 PM
#15
Sales have been through the roof for the Cayenne Diesel. Porsche had one of the best months in Nov. I think some dealers are surprised. I had a BMW x5d, and I have to say in my 50 mile commute one way, the best I got was 25-26 MPG. Already, I am getting 29-31 MPG in my Cayenne Diesel. Also, the response compared to the x5d is much better. It wasn't until I test drove the Cayenne Diesel that I was sold. I feel the author may not have even driven the Cayenne Diesel. Also, it seems people compare diesel fuel costs to regular unleaded, and not premium. In NJ, premium and diesel are either the same or within 3-5 cents of each other.
I think he just doesn't understand the diesel vehicles and never drove one.
I think he just doesn't understand the diesel vehicles and never drove one.
