RobertG

(I got those numbers from a PAG honcho interviewed on DW's Auto Motor und Sport TV show)
Do you think that American VW club would allow Peppers into their club? I heard that they allow the 1.8L 914. I wonder if PCA would allow The Touareg into their reindeer games (events).

John Murray

I dont believe those numbers. I am sure Porsche did 80% of the R&D and testing for both and shared their findings with VW. 20% Porsche sounds silly......

George from MD

What about a 50/50 Porsche/VW combination that is more powerful, better looking and holds a lot more than the Cayenne?

That's right- a 1969 Volkswagen Microbus with a 996 Twin Turbo engine, transmission and suspension stuffed underneath. With the Westphalia option it's the ultimate "sleeper"- and let's face it- it IS better looking (in it own Grateful Dead way of course) and holds a lot more than the Cayenne.

Please make mine white and tangerine!

RobertG

i think he was talking about percentage of root production parts being used/shared not percentage of R&D time.

John H. in DC Area

You both are right. Robert's right about the percentage of Porsche vs. VW parts. Apparently the "only" item actually made by Porsche in the Cayenne is the engine (it's heart?). All other parts are supplied by VW or outside suppliers. John's right about the Porsche-dominated R&D.

<a href="http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2003-04-29-cayenne_x.htm" target="_blank">USA today article</a>

RobertG

ISnt it nice when we can BOTH be right?

Christian S.

I think I'm right in saying that the 996 "structure" is supplied by BMW.... it's modern manufacturing folks - trace all the sources for parts of a vehicle and how much of any car is actually "constructed" or "fabricated" by one company??

Are the Bosch parts in my '87 Carrera "Porsche" if they have a VW part number on them?? If not are they "VW" or "Bosch"? The Cayenne makes no bones about being a shared platform - it was designed and developed by both Porsche and VW - the one with a Porsche badge on it is a Porsche and the one with a VW badge is VW - as far as I'm concerned.....

RobertG

BMW owns the "contracting plant" that stamps the body panels for the Boxster and 996. That plants also stamps panels for Skoda, BMW and Seat.

John Murray

Robert, it is nice!

I do not think that parts sharing, R&D sharing, BMW stamping the body panels, the Japaneese transmission, etc, etc. dilutes the brand at all. It shows that Porsche is smart and takes advantage of available resources, to lower expenses and create a better automobile.

Good Luck all!

M758

Lets be honest guys Porsche's have always been part VW. The 356 was simple a better sport version of the Beatle. One today could say the 996 has more in common with the Origial VW beatle than the current "new beatle".

When the 914 came out you said it was not a Porsche,
When the 924 came out you said it was not a Porsche,
When the 928 came out you said it was not a Porsche.
...and now the Cayenne is really a VW.... Well that is actually big part of the Porsche tradition.

Like it or Not the Cayenne is a Porsche. Deal with it ... I have!

ked

When it comes to measuring the material or monetary content of Porsche-engineered products, we have a case where "...there is an increasing importance of the small difference."

Speedraser

I think it does matter. There is a real difference between a 996-series 911 and the earlier 911s, some of which is tangible and some of which is intangible. And there is a real difference between pre-996-series 911s and 944s, 924s, 914s, 986s, Cayennes, etc. The 356 started out sharing many parts with VWs, but it finished sharing few. None of the above is a bad car (some are great), but there is something more "special," IMHO, about the cars that are Porsche through and through, such as the air-cooled 911s. There is no question that they are able to keep prices down by parts-sharing (while making huge profit margins). But there is little debate that the build quality of the 986, 996 and Cayenne is not up to the standard of the 993 and 964. This does matter, a lot, to some of us.

None of the cars listed in above posts as examples of "this has been done before" has achieved the iconic status of the 911 (air-cooled), with the possible exception of the 356. The 356 clearly has its own charms as the first Porsche and, as mentioned above, steadily lost the VW content over its production life.

Adrian

Dear Todd,
I hope you do not run out and sell your 993 and 911SC after this post but I have some bad news for you. There is no such animal as a purely Porsche built Porsche. Karmann built 911 bodies up until 1976 as well as Zuffenhausen. These were actually known as Karmann 911s. Porsche have not built a transmission inhouse since the 356. They are all outsourced. Tiptronics for the 964 and 993 are from Mercedes. The 928 auto transmission is also from Mercedes. The new 996 Targa roof assembly was designed and is manufactured by Daimler Chyrsler.
Outsourcing has been Porsche policy for decades.
If you check your 993 you will find many parts which share the vendor part number with Audi and VW. Electric water pumps, relays. Bosch even subcontract construction of parts to Hong Kong via Hella and Johnson motors. The window mechanisms in a 964 are from the VW Golf.
The Cayenne and Toureg are the same basic vehicle. They are built in the same factory. The Toureg is completed in Slovakia and the Cayenne is shipped to Leipzig for Porscherisation.
The Caynenne is as much a Porsche as all other Porsches which roll off a Porsche production line. Did you know that Porsche also built (assembled) Mercedes 500Es and Audi RS2s at Zuffenhausen. To be quite honest the most Porsche of all Porsches would be the 928 manuals. This based on the fact that the boxer engine design was not a Porsche design originally. The 928 V8 was totally designed inhouse. As was the Cayenne V8.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

JeffES

Adrian is "right on" - and some argue that one of the reasons for Porsche's success over the years is their reluctance to vertically integrate....
Oh - you may want to check some of your 911 (pre 964) part numbers anyway... more than a few pop up in the VW catalog!!
Jeff
Oh yeah.. the Getrag trannys??? Assembled by VW for most of the 80's and 90's.... @ Emden

RobertG

hey you forgot to ad the 944 to that post,,lol </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">Originally posted by M758:
<strong>Lets be honest guys Porsche's have always been part VW. The 356 was simple a better sport version of the Beatle. One today could say the 996 has more in common with the Origial VW beatle than the current "new beatle".

When the 914 came out you said it was not a Porsche,
When the 924 came out you said it was not a Porsche,
When the 928 came out you said it was not a Porsche.
...and now the Cayenne is really a VW.... Well that is actually big part of the Porsche tradition.

Like it or Not the Cayenne is a Porsche. Deal with it ... I have!</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana,Tahoma,Helvetica">