The Chilli Dipper ad budget could have made a big dent in an elite racing program
05-12-2002, 06:48 PM
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Mr. Davis,
Just watched Field Trial Freddie's interview on Car Crazy. I'm sure he is no demon, but I can't say I agree totally with your astute businessman/Porsche loyalist assessment. He never drove a Porsche before joining the company, the "we need to stay independent" positioning - reads like, "I need to save my job". The whole BS about selling units - if it were just selling units he could have done it better, cheaper and faster - that's good business. And my personal favorite, "we need to stay true to that thing on the hood - 'er I mean the family crest."
He goes on and on about racing, but what a hypocrite - his SUV doomed racing for a long time, and he's not racing the Chili-pepper.
At least he knows Porsche is a two syllable word. Question is did he before joining the company? Anyway I now know the Chili-dipper test drive I want to take - as he requested, the one following his Hearst - just kidding of course.
Have a great week...
Just watched Field Trial Freddie's interview on Car Crazy. I'm sure he is no demon, but I can't say I agree totally with your astute businessman/Porsche loyalist assessment. He never drove a Porsche before joining the company, the "we need to stay independent" positioning - reads like, "I need to save my job". The whole BS about selling units - if it were just selling units he could have done it better, cheaper and faster - that's good business. And my personal favorite, "we need to stay true to that thing on the hood - 'er I mean the family crest."
He goes on and on about racing, but what a hypocrite - his SUV doomed racing for a long time, and he's not racing the Chili-pepper.
At least he knows Porsche is a two syllable word. Question is did he before joining the company? Anyway I now know the Chili-dipper test drive I want to take - as he requested, the one following his Hearst - just kidding of course.
Have a great week...
05-12-2002, 09:52 PM
#17
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[quote] <hr></blockquote>
Wow! eighteen F words. I was almost out of fingers and toes.
OK, we start, AND end the tour in Beantown.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Maybe this is really the year -- a Series played at Wrigley and Phenway.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
[quote] <hr></blockquote>
Wow! eighteen F words. I was almost out of fingers and toes.
OK, we start, AND end the tour in Beantown.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
Maybe this is really the year -- a Series played at Wrigley and Phenway.
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
<img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
05-12-2002, 10:33 PM
#18
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Kevin,
I have been, and miss much your city of Boston. I grew up in RI <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
I have been, and miss much your city of Boston. I grew up in RI <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" />
05-13-2002, 10:12 AM
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Phil & MPM, Boston is a great city! I've always enjoyed my time there, unfortunately, driving in & around is such a pain - too crowded, poor traffic mgmt., the big dig, etc. I must say though, that the drivers display skill & agression (or a purposeful ignorance of all other drivers) to a degree beyond any other city in the USA. Must be Darwinian selection. Definitely a place for "multiple car abuse", perhaps even a high perf SUV.
I guess that's why it is hard to fathom stubborn resistence to the C. The die is cast, & it could be an alternative selection for urban use (if one is in the right "financial demographic"). From PAG's pov, the C will either speed up or stave off an acquisition - some might say that is a "no lose" proposition. Personally, I favor independence & believe (I only predict what I know in detail, or get paid for) that the C will support that, perhaps at a small cost to "sports car purity". I also prefer any Porsche to be of the highest engineering quality (even if SUV, wgn, or sedan) as opposed to a cheap, down-market sports car.
I now use my Benz 300TE just as I might the C, for basic transportation (family & business) and when I travel to bike rides & races (I insist on carrying them inside for security & to minimize exposure). If the C is a "real Porsche" in engineering, performance, & driving dynamic (in my personal idiosyncratic judgement), I would likely prefer it to a Benz, Audi, BMW (first car I bought w/ my own $s, & I sold them for 2 years at a dealership), or whatever.
I prefer to embark on "Mike's plan" to CA first because, for Porsche, "if you can make it there, you'll make it everywhere". Plus my limited travel between Santa Barbara (Alysal) & Monterey confirmed that I want to return for more driving & riding. We will spend the time driving (on & off road) through the South & West to learn the C & get our story straight.
cheers!
I guess that's why it is hard to fathom stubborn resistence to the C. The die is cast, & it could be an alternative selection for urban use (if one is in the right "financial demographic"). From PAG's pov, the C will either speed up or stave off an acquisition - some might say that is a "no lose" proposition. Personally, I favor independence & believe (I only predict what I know in detail, or get paid for) that the C will support that, perhaps at a small cost to "sports car purity". I also prefer any Porsche to be of the highest engineering quality (even if SUV, wgn, or sedan) as opposed to a cheap, down-market sports car.
I now use my Benz 300TE just as I might the C, for basic transportation (family & business) and when I travel to bike rides & races (I insist on carrying them inside for security & to minimize exposure). If the C is a "real Porsche" in engineering, performance, & driving dynamic (in my personal idiosyncratic judgement), I would likely prefer it to a Benz, Audi, BMW (first car I bought w/ my own $s, & I sold them for 2 years at a dealership), or whatever.
I prefer to embark on "Mike's plan" to CA first because, for Porsche, "if you can make it there, you'll make it everywhere". Plus my limited travel between Santa Barbara (Alysal) & Monterey confirmed that I want to return for more driving & riding. We will spend the time driving (on & off road) through the South & West to learn the C & get our story straight.
cheers!
05-13-2002, 11:04 PM
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Kevin -
Once again I respectfully find myself on the other side of the debate, but overall I think we are getting closer. However on the Darwinian natural selection of the worst drivers and roads truly belonging to Boston - we totally agree.
The independence thing is a smoke screen. With the right buyer, Porsche could focus totally on sports cars - and racing! For me that would mean VAG. BMW would be interesting but something about those PORSCHE+AUDI 917s is permanently engrained on my mind. If it was about making money, they could have made much more per unit staying with an existing platform. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but building an ugly and expensive one is the kiss-of-death in this fickle NA car market. The automotive press has already labeled it controversial and of questionable design.
Even more severe is that the Chili-pepper comes at great expense to elite racing for Porsche. They are talking about racing the Carrera GT, but only competing in GTS, and not until 2004 at the earliest. Who knows what the rules will look like by then. Showing up with a motor for IRL doesn't feel right - what's next NASCAR? Porsche stands for endurance racing and outright wins - period.
But you're right the dye is cast, and we need only wait another year to see what pain Fifth Wheel Freddie hath brought...
Once again I respectfully find myself on the other side of the debate, but overall I think we are getting closer. However on the Darwinian natural selection of the worst drivers and roads truly belonging to Boston - we totally agree.
The independence thing is a smoke screen. With the right buyer, Porsche could focus totally on sports cars - and racing! For me that would mean VAG. BMW would be interesting but something about those PORSCHE+AUDI 917s is permanently engrained on my mind. If it was about making money, they could have made much more per unit staying with an existing platform. Maybe I'll be proven wrong, but building an ugly and expensive one is the kiss-of-death in this fickle NA car market. The automotive press has already labeled it controversial and of questionable design.
Even more severe is that the Chili-pepper comes at great expense to elite racing for Porsche. They are talking about racing the Carrera GT, but only competing in GTS, and not until 2004 at the earliest. Who knows what the rules will look like by then. Showing up with a motor for IRL doesn't feel right - what's next NASCAR? Porsche stands for endurance racing and outright wins - period.
But you're right the dye is cast, and we need only wait another year to see what pain Fifth Wheel Freddie hath brought...
05-13-2002, 11:44 PM
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I think PAG has to stay independent.
I can think of only one sportscar company that has flourished since being acquired. Ferrari. And I don't think they even count since that company is a national treasure more than a profit center.
Who else? Jaguars are being built on Lincoln LS chasses. Lotus? Aston Martins cost a fortune, and don't go. Lambo? The car's a charicature. And who of those races. Only Jaguar has a team, and that is just the old Ford team painted green. Viper was all conquering til MB showed up.
Porsche needs it's freedom. Otherwise it's just some high margin cash cow for some CFO to milk.
And we'll all be longing for the good old days when Porsche was independent, and built great cars like the 996, the Boxster and the C word.
M
I think PAG has to stay independent.
I can think of only one sportscar company that has flourished since being acquired. Ferrari. And I don't think they even count since that company is a national treasure more than a profit center.
Who else? Jaguars are being built on Lincoln LS chasses. Lotus? Aston Martins cost a fortune, and don't go. Lambo? The car's a charicature. And who of those races. Only Jaguar has a team, and that is just the old Ford team painted green. Viper was all conquering til MB showed up.
Porsche needs it's freedom. Otherwise it's just some high margin cash cow for some CFO to milk.
And we'll all be longing for the good old days when Porsche was independent, and built great cars like the 996, the Boxster and the C word.
M
05-14-2002, 01:37 AM
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Can't say I agree Mike...
VAG would let Porsche be Porsche. As a matter of fact, I think they would revel in it. And all those go fast/corner flat/brake right parts would enhance the sporting nature of the VAG product line.
Big Reds on S4s, Porsche tuned suspensions on GTI's, Porsche tweeked engines in Audi's, and of course the worlds most wicked avants - I can go on an on...
More importantly Porsche would focus on racing - and the critical engineering advancements that racing brings! That's where and why it all started at the track, and Chili-Dipper forced racing to the back of the bus - or SUV as it were...
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between the Pieches' and the Porsches', so I doubt my dreams will be realized.
VAG would let Porsche be Porsche. As a matter of fact, I think they would revel in it. And all those go fast/corner flat/brake right parts would enhance the sporting nature of the VAG product line.
Big Reds on S4s, Porsche tuned suspensions on GTI's, Porsche tweeked engines in Audi's, and of course the worlds most wicked avants - I can go on an on...
More importantly Porsche would focus on racing - and the critical engineering advancements that racing brings! That's where and why it all started at the track, and Chili-Dipper forced racing to the back of the bus - or SUV as it were...
Unfortunately there is a lot of bad blood between the Pieches' and the Porsches', so I doubt my dreams will be realized.
05-14-2002, 10:47 AM
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can't say I agree, mpm - except maybe the NASCAR part, one has to deeply ponder being at a speedway w/ 100K+ stock car fans. I don't even like to be on the street w/ too many trucks bearing number decals all over them (& I LIKE the South). On the other hand, a German marque winning races would extend Porsche's market while alienating a certain type of fan, maybe a no-lose situation.
Anyway, the issue of acquisition is a timeless one, but one thing you can count on, they never turn out quite like everyone planned for. I would like to see Porsche control its own destiny as long as possible. Responding to marketplace demands (yours) is the best way maintain independence. Let's all hope they do so, and our pressure to return to racing at the top is addressed.
To get off topic on another issue is that of "our worst driver's". I must also disagree (you really take disagreement very well, good parenting?) about Boston's, I think the aggressive style has yielded a better-than-average bunch (for a major city).
My nominee is DC. This is a place where the all-star worst drivers in the nation have found employment (apparently). On top of that, many of the worst drivers in the world are also resident (diplomats) and provided "immunity". They take advantage of it, too. There is no point in belaboring the obvious - tourists (being a lost stranger in an 18th century traffic plan w/ lotsa 1-ways makes for exponential confusion). On top of all that, the cabs inflict their own form of personalized mini-terrorism.
As always, I'm open minded, but the consistency of poor & inconsistent drivng in (& around) DC is hard to beat. Be Safe!
Anyway, the issue of acquisition is a timeless one, but one thing you can count on, they never turn out quite like everyone planned for. I would like to see Porsche control its own destiny as long as possible. Responding to marketplace demands (yours) is the best way maintain independence. Let's all hope they do so, and our pressure to return to racing at the top is addressed.
To get off topic on another issue is that of "our worst driver's". I must also disagree (you really take disagreement very well, good parenting?) about Boston's, I think the aggressive style has yielded a better-than-average bunch (for a major city).
My nominee is DC. This is a place where the all-star worst drivers in the nation have found employment (apparently). On top of that, many of the worst drivers in the world are also resident (diplomats) and provided "immunity". They take advantage of it, too. There is no point in belaboring the obvious - tourists (being a lost stranger in an 18th century traffic plan w/ lotsa 1-ways makes for exponential confusion). On top of all that, the cabs inflict their own form of personalized mini-terrorism.
As always, I'm open minded, but the consistency of poor & inconsistent drivng in (& around) DC is hard to beat. Be Safe!
05-14-2002, 01:30 PM
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Guys,
You all are going to say I am crazy... but I can only think of one company that has needs of Porsche either as a sports car company or a technology/engineering company and that's...TOYOTA...
VAG has Audi, Lambo, Bugatti, Bently to run in the front. BMW really doesn't need Porsche and so is MB. GM has Chevy. Ford has Jag and Aston. FIAT has Ferrari. So only Toyota is large enough and in need of a performace boosting company like Porsche.
Toyota has Lexus for high end cars and Porsche will be their pure sports car name. Just imagine Toyota change its F1 entry to PORSCHE... <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
You all are going to say I am crazy... but I can only think of one company that has needs of Porsche either as a sports car company or a technology/engineering company and that's...TOYOTA...
VAG has Audi, Lambo, Bugatti, Bently to run in the front. BMW really doesn't need Porsche and so is MB. GM has Chevy. Ford has Jag and Aston. FIAT has Ferrari. So only Toyota is large enough and in need of a performace boosting company like Porsche.
Toyota has Lexus for high end cars and Porsche will be their pure sports car name. Just imagine Toyota change its F1 entry to PORSCHE... <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
05-14-2002, 01:37 PM
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KC -
I'd hate to see it, but I can't fault your logic. I'm holding out to once again see PORSCHE+AUDI "out front", as you say.
BTW Honda/BMW isn't out of the cards either.
Kevin -
Parenting yes, but more out of respect to your consistantly well articulated POV. It makes for a great debate...
Can't say I've driven enough in DC ot counter - but the diplomat angle is hard to beat. Boston drivers are aggressive, but never signal, mastered the art of left-lane-banditing, and the last second cut-off. At least the worst repeating offenders are brand loyalists - Crown Vics (for the grumpy old men), T-Birds (for the younger set), and big white Town Cars (for the "sucessful" ones).
I'd hate to see it, but I can't fault your logic. I'm holding out to once again see PORSCHE+AUDI "out front", as you say.
BTW Honda/BMW isn't out of the cards either.
Kevin -
Parenting yes, but more out of respect to your consistantly well articulated POV. It makes for a great debate...
Can't say I've driven enough in DC ot counter - but the diplomat angle is hard to beat. Boston drivers are aggressive, but never signal, mastered the art of left-lane-banditing, and the last second cut-off. At least the worst repeating offenders are brand loyalists - Crown Vics (for the grumpy old men), T-Birds (for the younger set), and big white Town Cars (for the "sucessful" ones).
05-14-2002, 04:06 PM
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Big Red brakes do fit on Audi S4's as it is. There are are also a few other parts that oddly enough and for whatever reason cross over from the 996TT to the twin turbo Audi S4 and are cheaper!? Not major components though, just a bit piece here and there. I agree with KC however about Toyota and it wouldn't bother me as long as they let it alone. Toyota has already helped Porsche out as it is anyway when it comes to manufacturing processes.
Having lived in Montgomery County Maryland for much of my youth I can attest to the poor driver quality in that region. Southern California would have to be a close second though, and when it rains...forget it. A blast through North & South Carolina impressed me though. Show me any state with a huge Nascar fan base and I'll show you soccer moms that can work the draft.
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
Having lived in Montgomery County Maryland for much of my youth I can attest to the poor driver quality in that region. Southern California would have to be a close second though, and when it rains...forget it. A blast through North & South Carolina impressed me though. Show me any state with a huge Nascar fan base and I'll show you soccer moms that can work the draft.
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />
05-15-2002, 07:54 AM
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Last V8,
True Big Reds do fit the S4 (I'm thinking of doing it at some point), but I'd rather see all those Porsche go fast/corner flat/brake right parts come factory fresh with the car.
True Big Reds do fit the S4 (I'm thinking of doing it at some point), but I'd rather see all those Porsche go fast/corner flat/brake right parts come factory fresh with the car.