hey folks-- seldom have i seen as much heat and so little light shed on any topic as
04-29-2002, 12:57 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
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hey folks-- seldom have i seen as much heat and so little light shed on any topic as
on this board. lighten up guys! its only a car (or truck) and a great company trying to remain profitable and independant!
i promise no one here will have to buy one! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />
i promise no one here will have to buy one! <img src="graemlins/nono.gif" border="0" alt="[nono]" /> <img src="graemlins/wave.gif" border="0" alt="[byebye]" />
04-29-2002, 09:28 PM
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Operative phrase there ignacio is "trying to remain profitable" - which we all would like. But what happens when they fail?
That's our bitch - or at least mine. They can't afford this to be a failure and from the looks of things (especially the VW pictures) nothing tells me that they will succeed in this foolish short sighted undertaking.
Doesn't much matter now PAGs fate is sealed, and the market will decide. I just hope when the dust settles, Porsche ends up with VAG, so they remain somewhat independent - and get back to racing...
That's our bitch - or at least mine. They can't afford this to be a failure and from the looks of things (especially the VW pictures) nothing tells me that they will succeed in this foolish short sighted undertaking.
Doesn't much matter now PAGs fate is sealed, and the market will decide. I just hope when the dust settles, Porsche ends up with VAG, so they remain somewhat independent - and get back to racing...
04-29-2002, 11:24 PM
#5
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Yep,
Where the he11 is the point of staying independent when you're screwing things up by yourself (not racing, building SUVs...)?! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
Where the he11 is the point of staying independent when you're screwing things up by yourself (not racing, building SUVs...)?! <img src="confused.gif" border="0">
04-30-2002, 04:03 AM
#7
Burning Brakes
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gentlemen
no one loathes suv's more than i do but the fact remains that the damn things sell like hotcakes. try to remember the last expensive suv that failed. mercedes m class? bmw? lexus? all of these overweight behemoths succeed!
the fact that classic sport car aficionados don't appear to like the cayenne is probably an excellent sign that it will succeed with its target audience. i still can't understand why someone would purchase a mercedes m class until i think that the alternative is a jeep wagonneer. the damn m class is the biggest selling u.s. model! can't the cayenne compete successfully against an m class?
i agree that porsche is betting the farm on the cayenne but the same could have been said for the boxter or the water cooled 911 or any other major new model for our beloved but tiny company.
i believe porsche must reach beyond its current narrow sports car audience to achieve long term viability. i have no doubt that an suv is the safest possible strategy porsche could have chosen to attract a new audience of buyers. a 4d sedan or wagon would have been much riskier. i also have no doubt that porsche will be primarily a sports car company for the forseable future if it can remain viable. i also believe that our current board members are not very good judges of what makes these damn ugly suv's appealing to so many people. i include myself! <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
no one loathes suv's more than i do but the fact remains that the damn things sell like hotcakes. try to remember the last expensive suv that failed. mercedes m class? bmw? lexus? all of these overweight behemoths succeed!
the fact that classic sport car aficionados don't appear to like the cayenne is probably an excellent sign that it will succeed with its target audience. i still can't understand why someone would purchase a mercedes m class until i think that the alternative is a jeep wagonneer. the damn m class is the biggest selling u.s. model! can't the cayenne compete successfully against an m class?
i agree that porsche is betting the farm on the cayenne but the same could have been said for the boxter or the water cooled 911 or any other major new model for our beloved but tiny company.
i believe porsche must reach beyond its current narrow sports car audience to achieve long term viability. i have no doubt that an suv is the safest possible strategy porsche could have chosen to attract a new audience of buyers. a 4d sedan or wagon would have been much riskier. i also have no doubt that porsche will be primarily a sports car company for the forseable future if it can remain viable. i also believe that our current board members are not very good judges of what makes these damn ugly suv's appealing to so many people. i include myself! <img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
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05-01-2002, 02:48 AM
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How about as a tow vehicle? I thought I read somewhere that it would pull 7K or so. Let's see, that's 3000# for the 993, 3000# for lightweight enclosed trailer, 1000# for tires, gas cans, and tools!
Heck, Chevy makes both tow vehicles and a sports car and it seems to work for them.
Heck, Chevy makes both tow vehicles and a sports car and it seems to work for them.
05-01-2002, 12:30 PM
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If that 17 year old Mercedes Benz G500 brick can sell like hotcakes then in my opinion the Cayenne will do just fine. Bad name and all. There is nothing attractive about that car except status and even with all the problems the new G500's are having, people are still lining up to buy them.
Instead of slapping Porsche around on this we should be slapping our fellow Americans around on this for making SUV's popular in the first place. If there weren't such a demand for them, then no one, NO ONE, would be in such a rush to design and build them.
Of course we all know Porsche can't afford to and would rather not fail but it cannot afford to NOT TAKE RISKS either. This exercise in building an SUV is just not that risky. If they were to build a three wheel motorcycle to compete with Harley Davidsons....well, that would be risky. What they're doing now is just exasperating for them. They have to drag an archaic and stubborn customer base with them while they seek out new customers who will spend money on new product instead of buying the old product. It's annoying for them to have to listen to these (me included) cheapskate customers that will then spend no small amount of money trying to make the old used stuff perform better than the new stuff.
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
Instead of slapping Porsche around on this we should be slapping our fellow Americans around on this for making SUV's popular in the first place. If there weren't such a demand for them, then no one, NO ONE, would be in such a rush to design and build them.
Of course we all know Porsche can't afford to and would rather not fail but it cannot afford to NOT TAKE RISKS either. This exercise in building an SUV is just not that risky. If they were to build a three wheel motorcycle to compete with Harley Davidsons....well, that would be risky. What they're doing now is just exasperating for them. They have to drag an archaic and stubborn customer base with them while they seek out new customers who will spend money on new product instead of buying the old product. It's annoying for them to have to listen to these (me included) cheapskate customers that will then spend no small amount of money trying to make the old used stuff perform better than the new stuff.
<img src="graemlins/soapbox.gif" border="0" alt="[soapbox]" />
05-03-2002, 12:30 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
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last v8
i couldn't agree with you more! i still irks me that the best selling mercedes is the m class that looks like a cross between a jeep and a minivan. as for the g wagen i would only comment that a foo; and his money are soon parted.
in comparison to the mercedes suv's the cayenne looks like a ferrari! it will sell like hotcakes and provide money to porsche to further expand their product line so you can at last buy a new v8!
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
i couldn't agree with you more! i still irks me that the best selling mercedes is the m class that looks like a cross between a jeep and a minivan. as for the g wagen i would only comment that a foo; and his money are soon parted.
in comparison to the mercedes suv's the cayenne looks like a ferrari! it will sell like hotcakes and provide money to porsche to further expand their product line so you can at last buy a new v8!
<img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" /> <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/bigok.gif" border="0" alt="[thumbsup]" />
05-03-2002, 09:39 AM
#12
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The writing was on the wall when Porsche went public - when you sell stock to an open group of investors, the company becomes obligated to move the company in a direction that creates the greatest stockholder value. Porsche is doing what they perceive to be the path that accomplishes that specific goal. If the Cayenne fails to sell and/or if 911 or Boxster sales drop because people no longer see Porsche as a performance car company, then the company will change its course again.
Most of us don't like the Cayenne because we still think of it as a family-owned company, which evolved into a revered marque from its domination in racing. There was a time when the same mechanics that built your car, were also building the cars that competed in racing around the world; from LeMans to the weekend autocross. That was genetic heritage we all ascribed to when we bought a Porsche - we became part of the family.
There is only one, maybe two, manufacturers left where that can still be said: Ferrari is the largest and most successful. A Formula 1 competitor that builds road cars to pay for its racing. If you want to know how Porsche was 20 years ago, go read this week's copy of Autoweek on the 575M. It is painfully nostalgic.
Most of us don't like the Cayenne because we still think of it as a family-owned company, which evolved into a revered marque from its domination in racing. There was a time when the same mechanics that built your car, were also building the cars that competed in racing around the world; from LeMans to the weekend autocross. That was genetic heritage we all ascribed to when we bought a Porsche - we became part of the family.
There is only one, maybe two, manufacturers left where that can still be said: Ferrari is the largest and most successful. A Formula 1 competitor that builds road cars to pay for its racing. If you want to know how Porsche was 20 years ago, go read this week's copy of Autoweek on the 575M. It is painfully nostalgic.
05-03-2002, 04:31 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
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nostalgia does not pay the bills!
btw-ferrari is now owned by fiat.
ironclad rule of life: evolve or die <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
btw-ferrari is now owned by fiat.
ironclad rule of life: evolve or die <img src="graemlins/icon107.gif" border="0" alt="[icon107]" /> <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
05-03-2002, 04:56 PM
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Exactly Ignacio. Ferrari is subsidized and besides that if Porsche came out with a round of cars costing as much as the Ferrari models boy would you hear some howling then.
Buckle up folks. There ain't no turnin back.
Buckle up folks. There ain't no turnin back.
05-03-2002, 05:12 PM
#15
Burning Brakes
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hey v8
it's great to encounter such perceptive and inquiring mind--especially since we agree! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />
it's great to encounter such perceptive and inquiring mind--especially since we agree! <img src="graemlins/beerchug.gif" border="0" alt="[cheers]" /> <img src="graemlins/r.gif" border="0" alt="[king]" />