The Cayenne, the Boxster, and the Porsche Brand...
12-17-2002, 12:35 AM
#16
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>
For someone that likes the 944 you dont know much about it.
The 944 and 944 turbo engines are 100% Porsche design and build.
The 924 engine on the other hand...is audi I believe.
My mom's 00 986 with 13k miles creaks horribly...build quality? I dont see much of it! Supposedly it can be fixed with some lubing of seals and whatnot, but for how long??</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right, I don't. But then, neither do you if you honestly believe what you wrote.
I do know that at its production peak, they made about as many annually as they make Boxsters, their resale values are low and have been for many years, and that any brand fallout you claim for the Boxster applies equally to every entry-level Porsche, including your 944.
As to build quality . . . I don't know what's wrong with your mother's car. She should remind you that it IS a convertible.
<strong>
For someone that likes the 944 you dont know much about it.
The 944 and 944 turbo engines are 100% Porsche design and build.
The 924 engine on the other hand...is audi I believe.
My mom's 00 986 with 13k miles creaks horribly...build quality? I dont see much of it! Supposedly it can be fixed with some lubing of seals and whatnot, but for how long??</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right, I don't. But then, neither do you if you honestly believe what you wrote.
I do know that at its production peak, they made about as many annually as they make Boxsters, their resale values are low and have been for many years, and that any brand fallout you claim for the Boxster applies equally to every entry-level Porsche, including your 944.
As to build quality . . . I don't know what's wrong with your mother's car. She should remind you that it IS a convertible.
12-17-2002, 04:46 AM
#17
Nordschleife Master
[quote]Originally posted by brickerson:
<strong>
You're right, I don't. But then, neither do you if you honestly believe what you wrote.
I do know that at its production peak, they made about as many annually as they make Boxsters, their resale values are low and have been for many years, and that any brand fallout you claim for the Boxster applies equally to every entry-level Porsche, including your 944.
As to build quality . . . I don't know what's wrong with your mother's car. She should remind you that it IS a convertible.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you're saying the 944 engine was not indeed designed and built by Porsche? OK, they stole the balance shaft tech from Mitsubishi I think it was, but other than that...
I didn't claim any brand fallout, I hope that wasn't directed to me. Though like everybody else I do think Porsche REALLY needs to get back into racing.
Resale values for 944's are low, yeah...and its great....
great cars for little $$. The maintenence is where it hurts..belts every 40kmiles...but thats not too bad. The real killer is when something big breaks.
And while the boxster is a convertable, I still dont think creaking is acceptable...
<strong>
You're right, I don't. But then, neither do you if you honestly believe what you wrote.
I do know that at its production peak, they made about as many annually as they make Boxsters, their resale values are low and have been for many years, and that any brand fallout you claim for the Boxster applies equally to every entry-level Porsche, including your 944.
As to build quality . . . I don't know what's wrong with your mother's car. She should remind you that it IS a convertible.</strong><hr></blockquote>
So you're saying the 944 engine was not indeed designed and built by Porsche? OK, they stole the balance shaft tech from Mitsubishi I think it was, but other than that...
I didn't claim any brand fallout, I hope that wasn't directed to me. Though like everybody else I do think Porsche REALLY needs to get back into racing.
Resale values for 944's are low, yeah...and its great....
great cars for little $$. The maintenence is where it hurts..belts every 40kmiles...but thats not too bad. The real killer is when something big breaks.And while the boxster is a convertable, I still dont think creaking is acceptable...
12-17-2002, 02:16 PM
#18
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by adrial:
<strong>
So you're saying the 944 engine was not indeed designed and built by Porsche? OK, they stole the balance shaft tech from Mitsubishi I think it was, but other than that...
I didn't claim any brand fallout, I hope that wasn't directed to me. Though like everybody else I do think Porsche REALLY needs to get back into racing.
Resale values for 944's are low, yeah...and its great.... great cars for little $$. The maintenence is where it hurts..belts every 40kmiles...but thats not too bad. The real killer is when something big breaks.
And while the boxster is a convertable, I still dont think creaking is acceptable...</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, you're right, I was wrong. I stand corrected. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
But you did say "The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
<strong>
So you're saying the 944 engine was not indeed designed and built by Porsche? OK, they stole the balance shaft tech from Mitsubishi I think it was, but other than that...
I didn't claim any brand fallout, I hope that wasn't directed to me. Though like everybody else I do think Porsche REALLY needs to get back into racing.
Resale values for 944's are low, yeah...and its great....
great cars for little $$. The maintenence is where it hurts..belts every 40kmiles...but thats not too bad. The real killer is when something big breaks.And while the boxster is a convertable, I still dont think creaking is acceptable...</strong><hr></blockquote>
No, you're right, I was wrong. I stand corrected. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.
But you did say "The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
12-17-2002, 02:30 PM
#19
Race Director
bickerson... Wrong again <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Adrial did not state
"The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
It was john.
Adrial did not state
"The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
It was john.
12-17-2002, 06:43 PM
#20
Nordschleife Master
This is what Porsche has to say about the decline of the brand!!!!
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=6070&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&f part=1" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=6070&page=0& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1</a>
Clubsport version available at no extra charge...thats the good stuff right there...
<a href="http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=6070&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&f part=1" target="_blank">http://www.rennteam.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news&Number=6070&page=0& view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1</a>
Clubsport version available at no extra charge...thats the good stuff right there...
12-17-2002, 07:01 PM
#21
User
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Kentucky/indiana
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hey guys, Just thought I'd jump in your debate. Price alone does not guarantee "mystique" and there are PLENTY of people around who can afford Porsches. Everytime you see an S-class or BMW 7 rolling by, remember that they cost as much as 911's. I live in KY, and in my commute, I see plenty of those cars not to mention $60,000+ suv's navigators, LX 470's,Range rovers, etc.....There are plenty of people who can afford high dollar transportaion. Dont think high dollar automatically = mystique. Do you guys see any mystique in a S class?
If you follow the high dollar automatically = mystique philosphy, then the Cayenne will have plenty of mystique. With a base price of 56,900 and a real price of 65-73(for S's) or so, these cars clearly will not be cheap. Will they be worthy to carry the crest? Absolutely.
See, the Cayenne wasnt concevied for us, Porsche sports car enthusiasts, it was designed for people who's lifestyles dont permit them the luxury of dropping bug bucks on a sports car. People who are forced to drive something that can carry at least four people and some gear. Till the Cayenne, I think with the exception of the X-5, most suv's drive like penalty boxes. An suv vehicle, that can lap a road course as fast as a Boxster S, is indeed, an engineering masterpiece worthy of the Porsche crest.
I cant wait till they are out. Everybody wins. The sports cars are still being made and revered all over the world, new, future sports car owners will be introduced to the porsche brand and experience much sooner now,courtesy of Cayenne, and Porsche gets to lay claim to having the fastest, best handling SUV in the world. What's wrong with that?
As far as cayenne and Boxster "cheapening" the brand, that is totally crazy. Boxster breathed new life into the company, and exposed THOUSANDS of new, well heeled buyers to the marque. People who wouldve bought 3 series convertibles and even a few SL's.People who are trading those 98 and 99 boxsters now for 911's. Ask porsche if they think all those boxster owners "cheapend" the brand. Just because a Boxster costs less than a 911, doesnt mean the buyers couldnt afford 911's. Same with the Cayenne. Just becuase they arent all out sports cars, doesnt mean that The brand is cheapened, it gives Porsche a wider audience, and one day, when the kids, and soccer lessons are just a distant memory, it gives a chance for the owner to move to a 911. Too many 911 sales are at the end of a buyers cycle. The fity-year old empty nester realizing a dream. Now Porsche has a chance to sell them more often, and keep them in the fold longer now with a vehicle that can be at least JUSTIFIED as being needed, rather than just WANTED.
peace
PS
If you follow the high dollar automatically = mystique philosphy, then the Cayenne will have plenty of mystique. With a base price of 56,900 and a real price of 65-73(for S's) or so, these cars clearly will not be cheap. Will they be worthy to carry the crest? Absolutely.
See, the Cayenne wasnt concevied for us, Porsche sports car enthusiasts, it was designed for people who's lifestyles dont permit them the luxury of dropping bug bucks on a sports car. People who are forced to drive something that can carry at least four people and some gear. Till the Cayenne, I think with the exception of the X-5, most suv's drive like penalty boxes. An suv vehicle, that can lap a road course as fast as a Boxster S, is indeed, an engineering masterpiece worthy of the Porsche crest.
I cant wait till they are out. Everybody wins. The sports cars are still being made and revered all over the world, new, future sports car owners will be introduced to the porsche brand and experience much sooner now,courtesy of Cayenne, and Porsche gets to lay claim to having the fastest, best handling SUV in the world. What's wrong with that?
As far as cayenne and Boxster "cheapening" the brand, that is totally crazy. Boxster breathed new life into the company, and exposed THOUSANDS of new, well heeled buyers to the marque. People who wouldve bought 3 series convertibles and even a few SL's.People who are trading those 98 and 99 boxsters now for 911's. Ask porsche if they think all those boxster owners "cheapend" the brand. Just because a Boxster costs less than a 911, doesnt mean the buyers couldnt afford 911's. Same with the Cayenne. Just becuase they arent all out sports cars, doesnt mean that The brand is cheapened, it gives Porsche a wider audience, and one day, when the kids, and soccer lessons are just a distant memory, it gives a chance for the owner to move to a 911. Too many 911 sales are at the end of a buyers cycle. The fity-year old empty nester realizing a dream. Now Porsche has a chance to sell them more often, and keep them in the fold longer now with a vehicle that can be at least JUSTIFIED as being needed, rather than just WANTED.
peace
PS
12-18-2002, 02:07 AM
#22
Yeah, I can't wait for the day when Porsche offer a car for each group of buyer. A van for the soccer mom, a Lexus like porsche sedan for those who prefer comfort over performance, a porsche hatchback for the younger buyers who can't pay a lot. Yeah, everybody's driving a porsche and they are all happy and some of them will one day drive a 911..... but wait , what does a 911 mean to them anyway ? we are all driving porsches, and my porsche van is better than your 9 what ?
So much for the porsche mystique.
So much for the porsche mystique.
12-18-2002, 07:01 AM
#23
The mystique of the brand comes from the 'uniqueness' of the 911. Every other car in the range has an imitator or similar car from another manufacturer. The Cayenne IMHO will not dilute this any further than any other model in the range over the years, and indeed like the 924/944/928 etc etc will captivate a wider audience and benefit Porsche as a company.
BTW, as this subject is obviously overy emotive for many posters here I want to point out that I am not making any case whatsoever that the 911 is better than any other model. All I am saying is that the 911 is unique and that is where the actual 'mystique' comes from. I guess especially when it was watercooled as it was even more unique, but even now it remains.
To sum up, the Cayenne is important to Porsche as a Company but largely irrelevant to the mystique which is a large chunk of the 'brand'.
BTW, as this subject is obviously overy emotive for many posters here I want to point out that I am not making any case whatsoever that the 911 is better than any other model. All I am saying is that the 911 is unique and that is where the actual 'mystique' comes from. I guess especially when it was watercooled as it was even more unique, but even now it remains.
To sum up, the Cayenne is important to Porsche as a Company but largely irrelevant to the mystique which is a large chunk of the 'brand'.
12-20-2002, 08:08 AM
#24
Advanced
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 61
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
[quote]Originally posted by M758:
<strong>bickerson... Wrong again <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Adrial did not state
"The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
It was john.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right. I'm starting to sound like you.
Sorry, Adrial.
<strong>bickerson... Wrong again <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />
Adrial did not state
"The whole brand image for Porsche has changed drastically in the last 10 years, most specifically since the introduction of the Boxster."
It was john.</strong><hr></blockquote>
You're right. I'm starting to sound like you.
Sorry, Adrial.
