Who is to blame for the Cayenne....?
03-29-2002 | 08:24 PM
#61
User
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,291
Likes: 2
From: Midland, Texas
Christ! Turn your back for a month or two...
Hope I won't need hosed down with Purple K.
I side with Adrian's opinion on the Porsche Marque Game Plan.
They are one of, if not, the smallest auto. manufacturers on the planet. They are doing well financially, sales are solid if not up. The Cayanne is due out in late summer to mid-fall time frame. With the new assembly plant in Leipzig and a new engine plant in Stuttgart
(Zuffenhausen)there is commitment to the product.
Ever hear of Porsche bailing out on a commitment like that? I'd gamble on a 10 year production run.
Will I ever buy a new Cayanne? Nope... .
But, maybe enough pimps, rappers, dope dealers,
sports figures, lawyers... ad naseum... will buy enough of them to put one in my price range in 6 to 10 years. Thats how I got my 928.
The Carrera GT project seems to have the green light for 2003/2004 with some impressive production numbers for a car of that caliber.
BTW I plan on stealing one.
I have heard rumors of a solid racing effort in the near future.
The 911/series derivatives are still selling well.
So what's the beef? I love my 928, am interested in a 944 -complete- residing in a local junk yard. Nothing against the 911's it's just that at 6'2"/220lbs I don't fit into the car very well.
On the other hand just because there is a Porsche emblem on the car doesn't endear it to me.
Point of fact -heresy spoken here- if Yugo made the 928 - to spec. - I would still have one.
Porsche is a quality Marque with expanding horizons there are other great Marque's out there too. Can't beat a Ford F-150 for price and -loosely- quality.
If we need to settle the who's series saved the company battle we can have:
" The Annual Porsche Debate " With selected minions armed with garbage can lids and wiffle ball bats to determine the winning group. Registered combatant owners only. For a small fee $40.00 I will handle all the registration, select terrain for combatants - Botineau, North Dakota in say... January for the first debate/battle.
**** Fire folks none of us is on Porsche's Corporate Board this thread should have started with some statements/news releases from the guy's who make it happen instead of argueing over what ifs and maybes'.
Enjoy what you have, I do.
John S.
Hope I won't need hosed down with Purple K.
I side with Adrian's opinion on the Porsche Marque Game Plan.
They are one of, if not, the smallest auto. manufacturers on the planet. They are doing well financially, sales are solid if not up. The Cayanne is due out in late summer to mid-fall time frame. With the new assembly plant in Leipzig and a new engine plant in Stuttgart
(Zuffenhausen)there is commitment to the product.
Ever hear of Porsche bailing out on a commitment like that? I'd gamble on a 10 year production run.
Will I ever buy a new Cayanne? Nope... .
But, maybe enough pimps, rappers, dope dealers,
sports figures, lawyers... ad naseum... will buy enough of them to put one in my price range in 6 to 10 years. Thats how I got my 928.
The Carrera GT project seems to have the green light for 2003/2004 with some impressive production numbers for a car of that caliber.
BTW I plan on stealing one.
I have heard rumors of a solid racing effort in the near future.
The 911/series derivatives are still selling well.
So what's the beef? I love my 928, am interested in a 944 -complete- residing in a local junk yard. Nothing against the 911's it's just that at 6'2"/220lbs I don't fit into the car very well.
On the other hand just because there is a Porsche emblem on the car doesn't endear it to me.
Point of fact -heresy spoken here- if Yugo made the 928 - to spec. - I would still have one.
Porsche is a quality Marque with expanding horizons there are other great Marque's out there too. Can't beat a Ford F-150 for price and -loosely- quality.
If we need to settle the who's series saved the company battle we can have:
" The Annual Porsche Debate " With selected minions armed with garbage can lids and wiffle ball bats to determine the winning group. Registered combatant owners only. For a small fee $40.00 I will handle all the registration, select terrain for combatants - Botineau, North Dakota in say... January for the first debate/battle.
**** Fire folks none of us is on Porsche's Corporate Board this thread should have started with some statements/news releases from the guy's who make it happen instead of argueing over what ifs and maybes'.
Enjoy what you have, I do.
John S.
03-29-2002 | 08:45 PM
#62
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 2,605
Likes: 0
From: The old country
I'm definate that the Porsche board got this one wrong!
SUV's up till about 6 years ago had been the domain of middle road (Ford,GM,etc) manufacturers.
The two that stick out from this are Range rover, and Mercedes G-wagen.
In the last few years, there has been a boom for SUV's, mainly caused by moving them from out of the farm, and into the school parking lot. Lots of higher income families now see the SUV as a combination of mega-practical estate car, and high rise, bascially, bus!! Mr-60k-a-year will get one for the missus for 'his peace of mind' (plus when she reverses it into that Honda, we know what won't need repairs!!)
Anyway... to the point....
Porsche are now aiming for that exclusive BMW/Range-Rover/Mercedes club, expecting that their image will pull in a few of the 'upper-crust' crowd.... and I'm sure they are right..... Theres just not that many of those people around. Porsches image has always (well, in recent times) been based on higher priced, high quality SPORTS CARS, and not the executive fast-movers such as Mercedes and BMW.
What's next from the boardroom, a stretched 911 to compete with the Rolls, BMW750iL, and New Merc Maybach???????
The only good point of all of this, is that it means that they now have the stonking V8 motor to slam into a 928 for the new millenium!!!
SUV's up till about 6 years ago had been the domain of middle road (Ford,GM,etc) manufacturers.
The two that stick out from this are Range rover, and Mercedes G-wagen.
In the last few years, there has been a boom for SUV's, mainly caused by moving them from out of the farm, and into the school parking lot. Lots of higher income families now see the SUV as a combination of mega-practical estate car, and high rise, bascially, bus!! Mr-60k-a-year will get one for the missus for 'his peace of mind' (plus when she reverses it into that Honda, we know what won't need repairs!!)
Anyway... to the point....
Porsche are now aiming for that exclusive BMW/Range-Rover/Mercedes club, expecting that their image will pull in a few of the 'upper-crust' crowd.... and I'm sure they are right..... Theres just not that many of those people around. Porsches image has always (well, in recent times) been based on higher priced, high quality SPORTS CARS, and not the executive fast-movers such as Mercedes and BMW.
What's next from the boardroom, a stretched 911 to compete with the Rolls, BMW750iL, and New Merc Maybach???????
The only good point of all of this, is that it means that they now have the stonking V8 motor to slam into a 928 for the new millenium!!!
03-31-2002 | 01:01 PM
#64
Banned
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 195
Likes: 0
From: SoCal
Greg I had heard that as well from a few sources but never saw anything conclusive. The story goes that Porsche intended for the 928 to replace the 911 but they overestimated the willingness of 911 enthusiast who loved their air cooled flat 6's to want to switch to watercooled 8's. Then it seemed the 928 was to become the "executive sports car" for the businessman who had matured from the 911, wanted more comfort, didn't want to shift etc.
Whatever the case it would seem Porsche has had the last word on the matter. If you line up the 996 and 928 you'll see the dimensions of the car are close (windshield, slope of rear deck etc). Both are now watercooled and of course the engines lie at opposite ends and one is missing two cylinders. The former head of Automobile Magazine, David E. Davis Jr. mused that he wasn't sure he liked the new 996, it seemed to him that Porsche was taking the car in the same direction it went with the 928. In anycase on a number of occasions I've seen what I thought was a 928S4 or later in the distance, only to catch up and see that it's 996 with it's tail up.
S <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
Whatever the case it would seem Porsche has had the last word on the matter. If you line up the 996 and 928 you'll see the dimensions of the car are close (windshield, slope of rear deck etc). Both are now watercooled and of course the engines lie at opposite ends and one is missing two cylinders. The former head of Automobile Magazine, David E. Davis Jr. mused that he wasn't sure he liked the new 996, it seemed to him that Porsche was taking the car in the same direction it went with the 928. In anycase on a number of occasions I've seen what I thought was a 928S4 or later in the distance, only to catch up and see that it's 996 with it's tail up.
S <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />
03-31-2002 | 01:14 PM
#65
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,117
Likes: 0
From one Greg to another,
That was the theory at the time. It didn't work out exactly that way (in name anyway) but...
New 911 checklist:
Watercooling? Check.
Big Brakes? Check.
Weissach Axle? Check.
Fast? Check.
Civilized? Check.
The 928 was (and still is) the future of Porsche.
About all that's left of the 911's VW heritage are the incredibly illogical engine location, and those ergonomically stoneage pedals sprouting from the floor. Eventually, even the Porsche engineers will no longer be able to keep a 1940s VW engine location competitive, and will have to move it forward. Engineering can only do so much to beat physics. Then, the 911 will be a rear midengine, luxury, watercooled supercar. And someday, proper pendant pedals. (Yes, I know non-pendant pedals are used extensively in racecars, but ergonomics, and economics, are different on the street.)
Cayenne? Not my cup of tea, mind you - But, I would be willing to bet that you will eventually see that 4.5L TT V-8 in the 911 cars. And the TT V-8 was proto'd years ago for the 928. Sooner or later, there is no replacement for displacement. BMW, and (ACK!) Corvette are not just nipping at our heels anymore. They are biting. Drive a Lingenfelter Vette, and be very afraid of what can be achieved with a modicum of engineering prowess and some cubes to work with. A relatively small 6 can't fight the V-8 world for much longer, no matter how hard you force feed it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate 911s, and the 928 has it's own limitations. But the technology of the 928, the first car completely designed and developed as a Porsche, has been slowly integrated into the 911, making it a better Porsche. And some of the technology from the Cayenne will find its way into (thank god) a car, in the 911/Boxster. Once again, making for a better Porsche.
Isn't that what really counts?
Greg
That was the theory at the time. It didn't work out exactly that way (in name anyway) but...
New 911 checklist:
Watercooling? Check.
Big Brakes? Check.
Weissach Axle? Check.
Fast? Check.
Civilized? Check.
The 928 was (and still is) the future of Porsche.
About all that's left of the 911's VW heritage are the incredibly illogical engine location, and those ergonomically stoneage pedals sprouting from the floor. Eventually, even the Porsche engineers will no longer be able to keep a 1940s VW engine location competitive, and will have to move it forward. Engineering can only do so much to beat physics. Then, the 911 will be a rear midengine, luxury, watercooled supercar. And someday, proper pendant pedals. (Yes, I know non-pendant pedals are used extensively in racecars, but ergonomics, and economics, are different on the street.)
Cayenne? Not my cup of tea, mind you - But, I would be willing to bet that you will eventually see that 4.5L TT V-8 in the 911 cars. And the TT V-8 was proto'd years ago for the 928. Sooner or later, there is no replacement for displacement. BMW, and (ACK!) Corvette are not just nipping at our heels anymore. They are biting. Drive a Lingenfelter Vette, and be very afraid of what can be achieved with a modicum of engineering prowess and some cubes to work with. A relatively small 6 can't fight the V-8 world for much longer, no matter how hard you force feed it.
Don't get me wrong, I don't hate 911s, and the 928 has it's own limitations. But the technology of the 928, the first car completely designed and developed as a Porsche, has been slowly integrated into the 911, making it a better Porsche. And some of the technology from the Cayenne will find its way into (thank god) a car, in the 911/Boxster. Once again, making for a better Porsche.
Isn't that what really counts?
Greg
03-31-2002 | 04:03 PM
#66
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From: Cleveland, Ohio USA
cab996.com wrote: "The Boxster look has not necessarily made it a success. More like the fact that PAG can build a 911 and other model on the same production lines is what has made their mid-engine a success..."
I don't believe that to be the case.
You might want to check to see where Boxsters are produced, where the components come from, and where they are assembled.
I don't believe that to be the case.
You might want to check to see where Boxsters are produced, where the components come from, and where they are assembled.
04-03-2002 | 02:01 AM
#68
1st Gear
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1
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From: Maryland
Your need to check the specs on the 944turbo before you make a mistatement about performance or reliability. The turbo will out run a Boxster and the Cab with the Tip as well. As far as reliabity, the 944T engine is one of the most economical to keep and to soup up. Don't talk bad about the front engine cars, we're all porsche lovers, and besides I might put you far back in my rear view mirror one day!
I think the Cayanne is a great idea - I've been looking at daily drivers like the X5 and I'd much rather own the real ultimate driving machine.
proud 944T owner w/324 rw hp
PS - that's me waving bye-bye <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
I think the Cayanne is a great idea - I've been looking at daily drivers like the X5 and I'd much rather own the real ultimate driving machine.
proud 944T owner w/324 rw hp
PS - that's me waving bye-bye <img src="graemlins/xyxwave.gif" border="0" alt="[bigbye]" />
04-05-2002 | 05:18 AM
#69
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 227
Likes: 0
From: London, UK
geezzzzzzzzzzzzzz!
this topic still going? Well I am glad to all contributors.
Thx all but my opinion has yet to be changed in regards to my original comments.
Last I heard the PAG product line was still the 996, 986 & Cayenne - no 924, 944, 968 or 928 revivals in sight!!! (no offence intended to other Porsche drivers of the old school elk)
this topic still going? Well I am glad to all contributors.
Thx all but my opinion has yet to be changed in regards to my original comments.
Last I heard the PAG product line was still the 996, 986 & Cayenne - no 924, 944, 968 or 928 revivals in sight!!! (no offence intended to other Porsche drivers of the old school elk)
04-05-2002 | 05:08 PM
#70
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,298
Likes: 0
From: Los Angeles/Honolulu
Actually 996Cab I don't think anyone is calling for the revival of 928's 4's or 24's. Also in your original post you make the assumption that PAG built the Boxster to have a strong stablemate for the 996. In actuality they needed to cut costs and produce a car re using as many parts as possible. This resulted in the Boxster and 996 sharing many components including platform and because of relative costs it serves as an excellent entry level vehicle.
It simply costs too much to have all the seperate lines going that share few if any parts at all. Not to mention the very act of research and development means that things will evolve. Nothing more than the market in regions Porsche wants to expand and succeed, is to blame(if that's even a good word for it) for the Cayenne.
K
88 928S4
02 S4
It simply costs too much to have all the seperate lines going that share few if any parts at all. Not to mention the very act of research and development means that things will evolve. Nothing more than the market in regions Porsche wants to expand and succeed, is to blame(if that's even a good word for it) for the Cayenne.
K
88 928S4
02 S4
04-07-2002 | 02:15 PM
#72
Instructor
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 115
Likes: 0
From: Albuquerque
Wow...who would have thought of the SUV causing this much reason for discussion of the "not 911" Porsches. I know the porsche engine is a Horizontal 6 cyl...not a V6! And I don't like the other models so I am sure the SUV will follow the path of the others! Unlike most, I HATE THE BOXSTER! Just my opinion, and I do know the old saying.
