Whether we like or dislike the SUV, it's coming and there is nothing we can do about it, some are going to buy SUV for whatever reason and would consider the Cayenne just like they would consider X5 or ML.
I really don't have a problem with Porsche building Cayenne but just can not TOTALLY understand the marketing of it. They call Cayenne the ULTIMATE SUV with performance better than X5 4.6i or ML55 AMG. WHY? Why is Porsche knocking on the BMWs and M-Bs? They have many line of cars, sports cars, wagons, sedans, sports sedans, and they THEN looking into SUVs. You don't see Ferrari, Jaguar, and Aston M doing this, and they have giants behind them to sign checks for them.
I hope they sell tons of Cayennes, and maybe they will looking into building the ULTIMATE FAMILY VAN.

BTW, do Cayennes have 5 or 6 point harness as options for ALL the seats? <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

 

KC, you can't throw the Jaguar name in with Ferrari and Aston Martin. It's not an apples to apples comparison. I think if Porsche were to come out with a sports car line up ALL in the price ranges of the current Ferrari's and Aston Martin's then they'd have a problem. Since they're still independent they need people to buy their cars, not have them sit on the lots of Symbolic Motors and The New AutoToyStore.

K <img src="graemlins/yltype.gif" border="0" alt="[typing]" />

 

Ok, I will take that. But I am just trying to make a point of Porsche IS a sports car maker and they build their image WITH sports cars. If like Adrian said that Porsche is aimd at US market with the new SUV, maybe they should do more research on what IS the best seller in US... PICKUP TRUCK... Go take on Ford and Chevy like Toyota does... <img src="graemlins/c.gif" border="0" alt="[ouch]" />

 

The 928, 924 and the 968 just did not cut the mustard – sales, image, reliability and performance wise. PAG needed a stronger soul mate for the 911 and the Boxster was it after 3 previous failures – 928, 924 & 968


You see, you 911 people are just about all alike. Last I knew, the 944 series cars are what kept Porsche alive through the 80's. As far as performance, well most late model 928s will out run their 911 siblings without too much difficulty. Without a doubt, Porsche engineered some very fine automobiles with the 944, 928 and 968 series.

You guys used to cry about how a real Porsche had to be air cooled. Well take a look now, everything is liquid cooled. It has to be to meet emmissions and performance requirements.

So, I BLAME the 911 owners for the demise of the "older" liquid cooled cars. They were in no way a failure, not by any stretch of the imagination. There are still a lot of 944s running around out there, and they are and continue to be damn reliable and bulletproof cars.

Now, I'm sure all you guys love the performance of your 993 and 996 cars. Do you even realize that the development of the rear suspension on those cars started with the 928......over 20 years ago! The 928 was at least 20 years ahead of its time.

Other nice little engineering features these cars had are also now showing up on the rear engined cars. Things like no rocker arms in the valve train for example! Who wants to be adjusting valves anyway?

The 911 survived on its image....Period. Don't get me wrong, I love 911s, but I am tired of people bashing the liquid cooled (uh, I mean early liquid cooled) stuff. There is just as much engineering, reliability AND performance with the 944 turbo/928 and the 968 as there is with the same year 911s.

The bottom line is this. Without the sales of the 944, Porsche would probably not even exist today.

I have no problems with the VW ties with the 944. Who cares anyway? Didn't the 356, 914 and the 912 all share VW components?

 

I still blame the success of the cute little 2-seater that is the Boxster, sorry 986 (just in case I upset someone!!!).

 

Originally posted by <a href="http://www.996cab.com:" target="_blank">www.996cab.com:</a>


"Tabor Kelly
very true. 986, is a V6"

It is very hard to take you seriously.

 

John,

The first Porsche I owend was a 924, the car before this 993 was a 951, in between I have also had 69 911S and a 90 C2.
I have been to both sides of the Porsche world and MORE(I am a Chinese-American NOT driving Asian car). I don't judge what kind of P car you owne/d, we all bought Porsche because we all know what Porsche stand for and I for one hope it will stay that way. I hate to say this out loud but personaly the NEW Porsche(Boxster)owners are the ones BUY Porsche because of the competetive price, not because the image. Half of them don't even know how many times had Porsche won Le Mans. Yes, there ARE previous Porsche owners bought Boxsters too, and that's just like any air-cooled owners buy water-cooled cars too. We all support Porsche and if the newest model IS water-cooled, then you can buy it or get used Porsches.
Porsche wants new customers, wants to make money, wants to stay independent, I for ONE just can not understand the SUV game because to me the Suv IS NOT the most popular model, there are STILL more cars and trucks even vans in US than SUVs. If Porsche wants to build something to stand out, build a hight performance family van like the Renault-William F1 van.

 

I don't think the word blame is appropriate. Anyhow, Part of the reason that Porsche has the cash to build an suv is due to booming sales of the 986, but the more disturbing reason for me is the lack of racing. porsche is now a bigger car company interested in research and consulting. What happened to it's past dominance? now all we have is the ALMS, which is for all intents, a Porsche cup race. Can't wait for the carrera gt racing program, so long as the FIA is smart enough to allow the new carbon monocoques.

 

The only place to put the blame is on the millions of new-car buyers that are lining up like lemmings to buy SUV's... they're keeping the market alive and creating a demand for vehicles like the Cayenne. If there were no buyers, do you honestly think there would be a Cayenne?

Blaming the Boxster is just ridiculous.

 

Why the fuss over Boxster sales? I don't have the numbers in front of me, but I recall the report stating that the Boxster accounted for slightly less than 1/2 of all Porsche sales. If the Boxster is a raging success then what does that make the more expensive 996?

As for front vs. rear engine and air vs. water cooled, you're all a bunch of idiots if you go through life thinking like that. Have you actually tried reading one of the many history of Porsche books that are available, or are you just coming up with your own nonsense? Even more importantly, are you actually thinking for yourself or just repeating the babble from other loudmouths? Politicians and marketeers love people like you who can't think independently.

If you don't like the Cayenne, don't buy one, but don't knock it until you see what it can do and how the market reacts to it. If it is a dud and doesn't sell, you can dance a little jig and tell everyone you told them so. If it is as good as Porsche is claiming it will be and sells well, you may have to ask yourself whether or not Porsche knows something that you don't.

Me, I like Porsche and the vehicles that it has produced. Not all are perfect and there are certainly some that are more desirable than others, but I haven't seen one yet that I consider to be a real dud. A bad Porsche is often the result of it having had a bad owner more than anything else. One only need see a well-cared for (and I don't mean left in the garage and not driven!) 20-30 year old Porsche to know what I mean.

 

Love this board - because posters like myself know that the subject they are about to post would be controversial but still post it – waiting in anticipation for the obvious backlash.

The beauty about this board is however then shown in an uncompromising manner – many argue, some post abusive replies, others send threatening private messages only a handful wise readers really contribute with interesting comments and hard facts to counter posters points.

It is like having a harmless school playground play fight and from nowhere, the seniors join in with their BIG boots – hmmmm, aren’t you aggressive guys & girls tough!

Gonzo – I find it difficult to take a name like that serious too. But hey, it does not necessarily make you a bad person.

Skip in Boulder – not sure what to make of your comments, some good points, some intelligent personal attacks and some interesting facts. All I can add I, well argued.

exc911ence – you state facts, harshly but it is true! I could read your comments, happily, all day.

jason952 – again another factual post – I learn more from reading comments like yours, intelligent, factual and not offensive.

Adrian & John Kuhn2 – facts are always welcomed. Adds to our knowledge for those who don’t already know.

In any case thanks to the non-aggressive contributors and for those who got really personal – I can’t wait for further comments from you here or anywhere else on this board, got to be worth reading for a laugh – hehehehz…zzzzzzz……..hehehehe……..zzzzzz…….he..hehe..he..hehe..hehehe…zzzz zz.

 

A few more goodies to add to the pot. This weeks Motor Auto und Sport arrived yesterday. Guess what was on the cover. Yep the Audi Allroad on drugs (just kidding guys). I have to admit I am disappointed with the final look but hey I cannot afford it anyway. Some key points. The sale price of the Cayenne is 75-110,000 Euros. I can purchase a RS6 Avant 4.2L V8 TT Quattro with 450HP for a lot less and still only seat 5.
The chassis and body of the Cayenne is being built in Slovakia. It will then be shipped to Leipzig for the addition of the Porsche bits.
Yes the USA is its prime market. It is way too expensive even for soccer mums. This may become a new form of executive transport but this SUV is a more expensive than the X5 and the Mercedes SUVs. The VW version may have some chance of selling here but the Cayenne is for the wealthy elite.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4

PS: 110,000Euros in the old currency is 220,000DEM. Big Marks in anyones language.

 

Personally, I think they will sell the Cayenne. I have no doubt about it. The days of the hand built 911s are long gone. Let's face it, you can still buy an Asian made car that will perform nearly as good as a Porsche for a lot less money. Porsche either had to broaded its market and lower its costs, or go out of business.

None of us wanted to see that, so we all will just have to learn to love what Porsche makes, or move to another brand. Maybe we will all be driving Corvettes soon.....maybe not!

I have driven both the 996 and the 993. While I like the build quality and styling of the 993 much better, I have to admit the 996 was a very easy car to simp into and feel not less than COMPLETELY comfortable with in no time flat. Honestly, it is only Porsche I have driven where I thought I could have just gone right out onto the track with. Now if they would only clean up the interior and make the doors close like the used to.

 

Hey <a href="http://www.996" target="_blank">www.996</a> you're too funny...

I'm just glad there is a place in cyberspace to vent. As it became obvious that this thing was going to be ugly, I became increasingly pissed and needed to rant - now we will see the market reaction.

If this catfish actually looked good I would have held off buying the allroad for the wife and dogs - but clearly this thing is ugly, over priced and way to late to the party...

BTW, I'm allergic to cats and I only drink in the lounge. Have a great weekend...

 

I would definitely agree that the Cayenne must have the US as it's primary market. There's certainly a $50-$100k market for high performance luxury SUV's.

As regards the comment about trucks being the best sellers - sure, it's true (and I don't understand) but I don't think there's much profit in trucks - partly due to the demographics. <img src="graemlins/drink.gif" border="0" alt="[cherrsagai]" /> <img src="graemlins/jumper.gif" border="0" alt="[jumper]" />

I think you'll need to see a Cayenne in the flesh to really guage whether it's ugly, OK or vaguely good looking. There are lot's of vehicles that look great on paper and aren't very pretty when you really see them and vice-versa. (Ferrari 360 is like that for me).

I just hope they put the build and parts quality into the vehicle so that it feels worth the $$$.