Who is to blame for the Cayenne....?
03-09-2002 | 09:26 AM
#32
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From: London, UK
Graham,
I agree that US must be PAGs' target market. I am sure you would agree that European manufacturers have always wanted to do very well in the US before home markets - US is the biggest market in the world by far.
I do not have the proportional sales figures but I would guess that the US accounts for a good 30% of European car manufacturers annual revenue. I would also imagine the SUV market is equally very competitive just as the 2-seater market is.
Interestingly, I saw the Lexus SUV / Wagon in real-life recently. I thought it looked great – hated it before seeing it for real though!
I agree that US must be PAGs' target market. I am sure you would agree that European manufacturers have always wanted to do very well in the US before home markets - US is the biggest market in the world by far.
I do not have the proportional sales figures but I would guess that the US accounts for a good 30% of European car manufacturers annual revenue. I would also imagine the SUV market is equally very competitive just as the 2-seater market is.
Interestingly, I saw the Lexus SUV / Wagon in real-life recently. I thought it looked great – hated it before seeing it for real though!
03-09-2002 | 03:56 PM
#33
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From: Milton, MA
<a href="http://www.996cab.com" target="_blank">www.996cab.com</a>
Yep, I was the perfect prospect for the peppered catfish...
BTW IMHO it's not the Boxster that is to blame - it's the US market in general and PCNA in particular. Fred Schwab pushed hard for this thing based solely on NA SUV market data - and his ego. One thing he overlooked the burgeoning NA estate market (we are finally wising up over here). Everytime we visit Europe, I am amazed at the number of estates - and the lack of SUVs.
I still hold that PAG could have/should have partnered with VAG on an existing estate platform, stuffed it with the new V8, put on all the other go fast goodies, and in the end it would have really complemented the Porsche brand - instead of causing unnecessary commentary (from enthusiasts like me). What ever happended to "there is no substitute"? It would appear that now there is a substitute to racing - it's building unnecessary (and unwanted) products...
More than that, it's the styling that irks me. This gasping-for-air, dead catfish front (which looks too much like the Hyundai Sante Fe) is truly a crime. My guess is that this will go down as the ultimate Poseur Porsche, quickly kicked to the curb - and then totally redesigned...
Yep, I was the perfect prospect for the peppered catfish...
BTW IMHO it's not the Boxster that is to blame - it's the US market in general and PCNA in particular. Fred Schwab pushed hard for this thing based solely on NA SUV market data - and his ego. One thing he overlooked the burgeoning NA estate market (we are finally wising up over here). Everytime we visit Europe, I am amazed at the number of estates - and the lack of SUVs.
I still hold that PAG could have/should have partnered with VAG on an existing estate platform, stuffed it with the new V8, put on all the other go fast goodies, and in the end it would have really complemented the Porsche brand - instead of causing unnecessary commentary (from enthusiasts like me). What ever happended to "there is no substitute"? It would appear that now there is a substitute to racing - it's building unnecessary (and unwanted) products...
More than that, it's the styling that irks me. This gasping-for-air, dead catfish front (which looks too much like the Hyundai Sante Fe) is truly a crime. My guess is that this will go down as the ultimate Poseur Porsche, quickly kicked to the curb - and then totally redesigned...
03-09-2002 | 08:57 PM
#34
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From: san francisco
I have to say the cayenne doesn't look bad at all but one thing is I hate SUV's. It only takes a few sour apples on the road to make them a total turnoff ie very aggressive drivers. Not only are they impractical in a metropolitan city but they suck gas like there's no tomorrow. Kudos for PAG on the engine though-sounds like a beast but I be scared to see one lurking around me and if one thinks it going to drive like a 911- I see nothing but mangled metal plus my 996 included. It'll be great to see if they use the cayenne in future rally championships. Regards. Mike
03-10-2002 | 12:29 AM
#35
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From: ^^ Werk 1 pictured Yr '00 .. Vail, Colorado
This thread has moved for the moment in the direction of Estate's vs Cayenne. Fair game.
Having just returned from the Geneva show where the Audi RS6 4.2V8tt was unveiled, which was good as I've had a deposit since LeMans 2001, this RS6 is Cayenne Killer.
Low center of gravity, 450Hp, 580nm of torque which is ruler flat out to 5200 rpm, excellent build quality.
The Porsche Cayenne can only wish to have the interior build quality of any late model Audi product and moreover does this apply to the RS6 which is tweeked at Quattro GmbH.
I have a number three Cayenne V8tt postion at a Denver dealership - somebody buy me lunch and ya can have it. The RS6 is a Cayenne killer.
RS6 Production starts week 27 - can't wait.
Having just returned from the Geneva show where the Audi RS6 4.2V8tt was unveiled, which was good as I've had a deposit since LeMans 2001, this RS6 is Cayenne Killer.
Low center of gravity, 450Hp, 580nm of torque which is ruler flat out to 5200 rpm, excellent build quality.
The Porsche Cayenne can only wish to have the interior build quality of any late model Audi product and moreover does this apply to the RS6 which is tweeked at Quattro GmbH.
I have a number three Cayenne V8tt postion at a Denver dealership - somebody buy me lunch and ya can have it. The RS6 is a Cayenne killer.
RS6 Production starts week 27 - can't wait.
03-10-2002 | 12:41 AM
#36
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From: Los Angeles/Honolulu
Ok, now my girlfriend who knows little about cars and cares little about cars looked at the Porsche "SUV" and she said "that is not an SUV, it looks wagony". So there it is, Porsche is only calling this thing an SUV to actually sell them to people who's knee jerk reaction to kids is, "I need an SUV to haul them around". To me, this Cayenne is a Bentley wagon. Not that I don't like it, I just think save the front end, it's a Bentley wagon.
Schneider you got any pics of the Audi RS6?
K
88S4
02S4
Schneider you got any pics of the Audi RS6?
K
88S4
02S4
03-10-2002 | 01:01 AM
#37
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From: Milton, MA
Go Mike!
The RS6 sedan might be the replacement for my S4 in a couple of years. At this rate, the GT40 might replace my dream of a silver/red '98 993TT. F Fred and his SUV dreams <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> ...
Kaz go to <a href="http://www.AudiWorld.com" target="_blank">www.AudiWorld.com</a> for more RS6 info and plenty of pics...
The RS6 sedan might be the replacement for my S4 in a couple of years. At this rate, the GT40 might replace my dream of a silver/red '98 993TT. F Fred and his SUV dreams <img src="graemlins/cussing.gif" border="0" alt="[grrrrrrr]" /> ...
Kaz go to <a href="http://www.AudiWorld.com" target="_blank">www.AudiWorld.com</a> for more RS6 info and plenty of pics...
03-11-2002 | 04:39 AM
#38
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The USA accounts for only 7% of European manufacturers sales overall according to the latest figures. Some major European manufacturers do not even export to the USA. A proportion are actually built in the USA. Many more like some VWs are manufactured in Mexico.
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
Ciao,
Adrian
911C4
03-11-2002 | 12:50 PM
#41
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From: London, UK
Hi Gonzo,
Good to hear from you again – even when you are trying very hard to be sarcastic. I hope you are well and in good health today. Send my regards to your friends and family.
As far as I was aware the Boxster is powered by a 6-cylinder engine, V6 or dual bank of 3 cylinders or whatever you want to term it as. The 968 were powered by a V4 commonly referred to as a 4-cylinder engine. I am not sure what the 968 Turbo S was powered with - V4, V6 or even V8?. The 968 Turbo S was not commonly promoted in the UK.
I could be wrong, if that is the case then I welcome any corrections from you. As noted in previous posts, contributors armed with hard facts are always welcomed as it represents knowledge gained.
PAG seem to have more product success when they stick to a 6-cylinder engine, can’t explain why I am afraid. That was my point to Tabor Kelly – sorry to have to spell it out so plainly. I am sure you were aware.
Interestingly you seem to be another roschpe – hide your ID, no description of what you drive etc.
What do you drive?
Does it meet your expectation? – IF it is a Porsche.
This is an open forum, no need for secrecy – none of us Rennlist members mean any harm, I am sure of that.
Good to hear from you again – even when you are trying very hard to be sarcastic. I hope you are well and in good health today. Send my regards to your friends and family.
As far as I was aware the Boxster is powered by a 6-cylinder engine, V6 or dual bank of 3 cylinders or whatever you want to term it as. The 968 were powered by a V4 commonly referred to as a 4-cylinder engine. I am not sure what the 968 Turbo S was powered with - V4, V6 or even V8?. The 968 Turbo S was not commonly promoted in the UK.
I could be wrong, if that is the case then I welcome any corrections from you. As noted in previous posts, contributors armed with hard facts are always welcomed as it represents knowledge gained.
PAG seem to have more product success when they stick to a 6-cylinder engine, can’t explain why I am afraid. That was my point to Tabor Kelly – sorry to have to spell it out so plainly. I am sure you were aware.
Interestingly you seem to be another roschpe – hide your ID, no description of what you drive etc.
What do you drive?
Does it meet your expectation? – IF it is a Porsche.
This is an open forum, no need for secrecy – none of us Rennlist members mean any harm, I am sure of that.
03-11-2002 | 02:06 PM
#43
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From: London, UK
Hey Gonzo,
this is getting really exciting - I am easily pleased!
Ans to ur q? is 3.4l V6 24v - I have no idea what all those numbers mean, got it from the owners manual. I am sure you do. Perhaps you can explain.
What is the spec of your car? Dying to know...
Waiting in vain for next witty comment/remark/question. Please don't disappoint. This could be beginning of something really good – opportunity to learn from a ‘know it all’.
this is getting really exciting - I am easily pleased!
Ans to ur q? is 3.4l V6 24v - I have no idea what all those numbers mean, got it from the owners manual. I am sure you do. Perhaps you can explain.
What is the spec of your car? Dying to know...
Waiting in vain for next witty comment/remark/question. Please don't disappoint. This could be beginning of something really good – opportunity to learn from a ‘know it all’.
03-11-2002 | 03:07 PM
#44
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From: Austin TEXAS
[QUOTE]Originally posted by <a href="http://www.996cab.com:" target="_blank">www.996cab.com:</a>
"Ans to ur q? is 3.4l V6 24v - I have no idea what all those numbers mean, got it from the owners manual. I am sure you do. Perhaps you can explain.
What is the spec of your car? Dying to know...
This could be beginning of something really good – opportunity to learn from a ‘know it all’."
Your Porsche is NOT a V6.
I drive a 986S, my shoe size is 11, and I was raised on planet Earth (if that helps you any).
I do not claim to be a know-it-all, but at least I do know what a Flat 6 (boxer) is. The engine is the heart of any car and if you don't know what a Flat 6 is then you don't know your Porsche.
I don't agree with your opinion RE: "Blame for Cayenne" but I won't argue. Your facts, however, are off and it makes your opinion less credible.
Now you know.
"Ans to ur q? is 3.4l V6 24v - I have no idea what all those numbers mean, got it from the owners manual. I am sure you do. Perhaps you can explain.
What is the spec of your car? Dying to know...
This could be beginning of something really good – opportunity to learn from a ‘know it all’."
Your Porsche is NOT a V6.
I drive a 986S, my shoe size is 11, and I was raised on planet Earth (if that helps you any).
I do not claim to be a know-it-all, but at least I do know what a Flat 6 (boxer) is. The engine is the heart of any car and if you don't know what a Flat 6 is then you don't know your Porsche.
I don't agree with your opinion RE: "Blame for Cayenne" but I won't argue. Your facts, however, are off and it makes your opinion less credible.
Now you know.
03-11-2002 | 03:15 PM
#45
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Lemme see...so you state:
"The 928, 924 and the 968 just did not cut the mustard – sales, image, reliability and performance wise. PAG needed a stronger soul mate for the 911 and the Boxster was it after 3 previous failures – 928, 924 & 968."
Let's see how your claim stands up against facts:
1. The 924, in 1976, accounted for 70% of Porsche's sales. So exactly how was the 924 a failure? The 924 Carrera GT beats a 911 SC of the same vintage...so exactly where did the 924 fail?
2. In the year of its launch, 928 won the most recognised European Car of The Year (COTY) award. That was the first and only occasion that a sports car won this title. So exactly how was the 928 a failure?
I find your criteria for success, at best, only bizarre or odd - but they're not supported by facts. If I were you, I'd read and check through a bit more of Porsche's history before making broad sweeping generalizations about these cars.
"The 928, 924 and the 968 just did not cut the mustard – sales, image, reliability and performance wise. PAG needed a stronger soul mate for the 911 and the Boxster was it after 3 previous failures – 928, 924 & 968."
Let's see how your claim stands up against facts:
1. The 924, in 1976, accounted for 70% of Porsche's sales. So exactly how was the 924 a failure? The 924 Carrera GT beats a 911 SC of the same vintage...so exactly where did the 924 fail?
2. In the year of its launch, 928 won the most recognised European Car of The Year (COTY) award. That was the first and only occasion that a sports car won this title. So exactly how was the 928 a failure?
I find your criteria for success, at best, only bizarre or odd - but they're not supported by facts. If I were you, I'd read and check through a bit more of Porsche's history before making broad sweeping generalizations about these cars.