stevertr

I'm so bummed because I have always worked hard to maintain a great relationship with my dealer. I even request the same tech whenever I'm there, and it's always been a great experience.

Brought the car in today for rear brakes, arrived at 11:45AM. While it was up on the lift, the tech told me not to bother replacing the rotors, which was cool and saved me some money. I told him I also have a couple of bad bulbs, and a squeak from the blower motor that needed some WD40.

Hey while you have it up anyway, why don't we just change the oil....even though it's a bit early, because I'm an hour away. Well that was a mistake I'll never make again as long as I live.

At 1:45, two hours later on the nose, car is ready. Total labor charge 4 hours!!! 1.5 Hours for the brakes, the rest for the oil change and nicknacks. In summary, they charged me $350 for the oil change, which they say is the "competitive rate for an oil change."

I dared object to being charged for DOUBLE the amount of time my car was there, and was told "that's just the way we do it." I'm sorry, I don't mind a little "rounding" but that sucks. These guys must be booking 20 hours per 8 hour day per guy.

I can only imagine going to a $100 hour psychologist, and getting handed a bill for $200 at the end of my hour with the explanation that it's "just how they do it."

I sure did learn a valuable lesson, but it's really a shame because I've worked so hard to make nice not just to the service manager, but all the folks there at Prime in Westwood.

I'd go elsewhere, but I'm not sure it would be any different if I did.

Any thoughts most welcome.... I'm just venting....

User 4221

Nope, this is fairly common practice. The SAs are paid on volume like a sales guy. You should have pushed back on the oil change price. It looks like you got the full treatment

They typically charge you for 1 hour labor (~$120) plus parts (filter/O-ring at $20) and 9 qts of synthetic at ~$7/qt. It looks like they got you for two hours labor.
The "competitive rate" around here is about $240-$250 for an oil change.

I have gotten into the habit of doing my own oil changes and saving the extra $$.

Little Green

I deal with service guys as part of our company on a regular basis. Most work off something called the Mitchell Guide. This breakdown almost every job by Year Make Model. If a brake job on a cayenne calls for 2.5 hours you will get charged 2.5 hours wether he takes 1 hour or 5 hours. I asked one of our VP's of service for the hours it would take to do an Eibach lowering kit on my Cayenne-- 7.75 hours. Some techs would love a job like that at the P-Dealer as they maybe able to do it in 3 hours and do a second or third job during the day and effectively getting paid for 10-12 hours of work for 6-8 actual hours of work. That's how most of the automotive service industry runs. The labor charged per hour differs dramatically between say a Pep Boys and a Porsche dealer and even within the same company but different locations(Kentucky will not pay 120 per hour labor but that's standard in Long Island) but clearly you pay for expertise at a P-Dealer. Did you get hosed? Yes sounds like it. Call your service manager and explain the situation that as a long time customer, it's not necessarily about the money, but the level of service you have always received and that you feel like this time it wasn't right that you got charged that much for simple maintenance. Sorry for the long rant but there are two sides that need to be understood.

rijowysock

sorry to hear, thats how every dealer is lately.... i recently sold my 911 and when i took it in for a PPI for the buyer they told me it was LONG OVERDUE for the 1 Year and 2 Year Service (the car was 16 months old and i did the one year service at 10 months, but since it was not done at their dealer (had receipts from other shop) they said it didn't count..

they simply wanted the money for all the service they could get.. i will never buy a car from them and for sure never service my car with them.

Mark Brillo

sorry to piggy back on this thread but does the dealership charge you per individual work? what i meant is that, say an oil change is est. 1.5 hrs and brake job is 2.5 hrs, but since these are 2 works, and they finish it say in about 3 hrs for both, should they just charge you for that actual 3 hrs and not 4 hrs?

i'm thinking to replace the coils and plugs at the same time that i take it into a dealership.. so would they charge me the labor hours for coils, plus the labor hours for plugs? i would assume that since these are pretty much on the same spot, they should just charge the actual time (??? or maybe not)

beentherebaby

Yes virtually all dealers charge "flat rate" fees which is the prescribed repair time x the labor rate. Every repair has a designated repair time. The flat rate system was developed decades ago and meant to make repair work fair and consistent. It never work as planned for many reasons as the OP experienced firsthand. Stacking can be very profitable and fradulent.

There are many problems with the flat rate system used by dealerships. Cars in the rust belt often are more difficult to repair even with a time compensation for rusted nuts, bolts, etc. Second there are many times when the repair times are not representative of an actual field repair, i.e. at a service center. The time is based on what a brand new vehicle sitting in the factory R&D center would take for repairs. As a result there are times when the techs lose their shirt on a repair which means they might cut corners on other work to try and get a decent weekly paycheck.

When I ran an Indy Porsche service center I paid my techs a straight salary based on quality workmanship and reasonable repair time. I never had any complaints from customers or the techs so this system can work but it's not as profitable for the service center owner.

EnigmaWmn

Find an independent mechanic and forget the dealer. That's what I've been doing for most of my P!G ownership. Otherwise, whatever you've described is standard practice.

Little Green

Brillo,
You had two examples one was brakes and an oil change-yes flat rates for each job would apply stacked as they are unrelated. Second was coils and plugs-these are related and the Mitchell Service Guide would show something for coils only(say an hour)-coils and plugs together(1.3 hours) and coils, plugs and wires together(1.6 hours). It is the industry standard for most shops. As Enigma mentioned there are the Indies that really just charge honest prices for honest work and disregard the Mitchell Guide. I don't mind paying them what they charge as they sometimes bring a level of expertise through their personal experience that no 25 year old "Certified Porsche Trained Mechanic" can offer. I have a 1960 Harley Davidson Panhead that my HD dealer won't touch. I trust my Indy implicitly on work that I can't do myself. He is worth his weight in gold when working with 50 year old machinery.

stevertr

Thanks all. Of course I understand the general concept about book prices on certain jobs, and this isnt' really about the money, but about what I felt was a breech of the long standing relationship at Prime Porsche. I probably read more into our relationship than was there.

It just seems to me that what we call the "industry standard" is actually consumer fraud, and yet it's become so pervasive that we accept is as the norm.

Imagine calling a plumber to fix my washer, which I did just the other day. He told me up front it was $80/hour. He fixed the washer in 50 minutes, rounded it to an hour, plus the part, and it cost me $105.00. What would happen, if he charged me $200 in labor, for the 50 minutes he was there, and said "replacing that part is a two hour job so that's just what I charge." None of us, myself included, would ever stand for such a thing. From a car dealer, we just chalk it up to "the norm" and that's "just how they do it."

I just can't think of any other vendor of any kind where they quote you an hourly rate, but then charge for as many hours as they want.

Steve

beentherebaby

SOS, DD. As long as consumer accept this behavior it will continue. This is just one of the reasons dealers have such a bad reputation.

EnigmaWmn

Prime = Westwood, right? If so, had a deposit on one of their incoming '11s. Found the sales department to be on the sleazy side and glad that we ended up ordering here instead.

Andy E.

Steve, not to add insult to an already painful injury but chances are that the oil change was performed by a young grease monkey who does just that.

You can argue with your S.A. until you're blue in the face but an oil change at practically any Porsche dealer will run you a fixed cost of $300-$350. They claim that they also conduct a visual inspection of the vehicle however I find it unjust that a pimple-faced kid (apprentice-mechanic) can do all of this on his own.

I learned the hard way as well. I asked if there could be a price adjustment on future oil changes and I was told that there's no chance that it would happen. Now I know that the next time I need an oil change, I'll have it done at an independant shop.

cardfelon

Man an oil change that runs $300?? Here in Boise I take mine to the only Porsche dealer available and they only charge $180 for a oil change. They only charge $104 per hour labor

Marc Gelefsky

$260 for an ol change here in NJ... what a bargain

pdxjim

$283.81 for oil change on my 09 truck.