Trade-in values
05-04-2007, 11:34 AM
#16
Originally Posted by mjw930
Around here NADA and Blue Book mean NOTHING! Their bible is the Black Book. The Black Book http://www.blackbookusa.com/ is a weekly update of auction and dealer sales over the previous week. They also use an online auction system that they can search for exact matches and see what they sold for.
The bottom line is dealers will only pay wholesale for a trade, they can pack the number to make it look better but you are really only getting wholesale. And don't think you can get them to sell you a new car at wholesale (their ACTUAL cost) you can't. They must make money to survive so it may look like you are paying less than "invoice" but that isn't what they "paid" for the car. The ability to offer cars at thousands below MSRP usually indicates marketing support from the importer or manufacturer.
The bottom line is dealers will only pay wholesale for a trade, they can pack the number to make it look better but you are really only getting wholesale. And don't think you can get them to sell you a new car at wholesale (their ACTUAL cost) you can't. They must make money to survive so it may look like you are paying less than "invoice" but that isn't what they "paid" for the car. The ability to offer cars at thousands below MSRP usually indicates marketing support from the importer or manufacturer.
I don't begrudge anyone a profit (fair or otherwise) but I dislike the usual mode of operation car dealers and real estate sales, which is simply to lie. It's not negotiation or tactics or strategy, it's just bold faced lies, one after another. And catching them in a lie is nothing new to them; they just shrug their shoulders, know they've lost a sale and move on.
I don't want to tar every single dealership or individual with the same brush -- it's a generalization but one where finding the exception is a rarity.
05-04-2007, 06:35 PM
#17
Rennlist Member
Originally Posted by Carrera GT
...I dislike the usual mode of operation car dealers and real estate sales, which is simply to lie...
The best defense in these case (and almost all cases) is to get educated. I will look at Ebay, Cars.com, and various other sites to determine what the "fair market price" is for a car. That's what I expect to pay and what I expect to sell for. If I don't find a buyer who is willing to pay, I wait. If I don't find a seller who is willing to sell at that price, I move on.
With Internet tools like these, I think it's much easier to shop around rather than try to negotiate with local dealers.
05-04-2007, 06:48 PM
#18
I agree that using the Web and being a savvy buyer is the solution.
I would add that building a relationship with a local dealer works very well and solves other problems, but you still need to go into any deal well educated and count your fingers after you shake hands. : )
I would add that building a relationship with a local dealer works very well and solves other problems, but you still need to go into any deal well educated and count your fingers after you shake hands. : )
05-05-2007, 05:05 PM
#19
Track Day
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's how my situation worked out.
If you recall, I was stuck at dealer #1 and not happy with their prices. To their advantage, the new Cayenne had arrived and the 997 TT was built last week; whereas with dealer #2 I would have to order all over again.
After I told the salesman that I was calling dealer #2, his sales manager called me. He was much more accommodating and said he'd get back to me with a new proposal. I heard later that day from dealer #1 -- they improved their position by $4625. Hey, now we're getting somewhere.
I reached the owner of dealer #2 the next day, explained the situation to him, and he also said he'd get back to me with numbers. The following day (yesterday) he got back to me with a proposal that was $8250 better than the original deal, and $3625 better than the improved deal from dealer #1.
I gave dealer #1 a chance to match the dealer #2 prices. I figured he wouldn't go all the way since he had cars, but he did give me another $1625, or $6250 better than where he started. I agreed to the deal! I traded in both the Cayenne and Boxster today, picked up the new Cayenne, and have 30-45 days to wait for the Turbo.
All's well that ends well. Thanks to all here for the advice and encouragement. A little competition coupled with the info on the internet (including these forums), really do make a difference for the consumer. You don't have to settle for auction on trade-in or MSRP on a new car, not even on hot models like the new Cayenne and 997 Turbo.
I'm happy that dealer #1 stepped up and made it so I could buy the cars from them. And I'm happy with dealer #2 for being so easy to work with and great prices from the start.
If you recall, I was stuck at dealer #1 and not happy with their prices. To their advantage, the new Cayenne had arrived and the 997 TT was built last week; whereas with dealer #2 I would have to order all over again.
After I told the salesman that I was calling dealer #2, his sales manager called me. He was much more accommodating and said he'd get back to me with a new proposal. I heard later that day from dealer #1 -- they improved their position by $4625. Hey, now we're getting somewhere.
I reached the owner of dealer #2 the next day, explained the situation to him, and he also said he'd get back to me with numbers. The following day (yesterday) he got back to me with a proposal that was $8250 better than the original deal, and $3625 better than the improved deal from dealer #1.
I gave dealer #1 a chance to match the dealer #2 prices. I figured he wouldn't go all the way since he had cars, but he did give me another $1625, or $6250 better than where he started. I agreed to the deal! I traded in both the Cayenne and Boxster today, picked up the new Cayenne, and have 30-45 days to wait for the Turbo.
All's well that ends well. Thanks to all here for the advice and encouragement. A little competition coupled with the info on the internet (including these forums), really do make a difference for the consumer. You don't have to settle for auction on trade-in or MSRP on a new car, not even on hot models like the new Cayenne and 997 Turbo.
I'm happy that dealer #1 stepped up and made it so I could buy the cars from them. And I'm happy with dealer #2 for being so easy to work with and great prices from the start.
05-05-2007, 06:05 PM
#21
Racer
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: NYC
Posts: 320
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by eaglejackson
Here's how my situation worked out.
If you recall, I was stuck at dealer #1 and not happy with their prices. To their advantage, the new Cayenne had arrived and the 997 TT was built last week; whereas with dealer #2 I would have to order all over again.
After I told the salesman that I was calling dealer #2, his sales manager called me. He was much more accommodating and said he'd get back to me with a new proposal. I heard later that day from dealer #1 -- they improved their position by $4625. Hey, now we're getting somewhere.
I reached the owner of dealer #2 the next day, explained the situation to him, and he also said he'd get back to me with numbers. The following day (yesterday) he got back to me with a proposal that was $8250 better than the original deal, and $3625 better than the improved deal from dealer #1.
I gave dealer #1 a chance to match the dealer #2 prices. I figured he wouldn't go all the way since he had cars, but he did give me another $1625, or $6250 better than where he started. I agreed to the deal! I traded in both the Cayenne and Boxster today, picked up the new Cayenne, and have 30-45 days to wait for the Turbo.
All's well that ends well. Thanks to all here for the advice and encouragement. A little competition coupled with the info on the internet (including these forums), really do make a difference for the consumer. You don't have to settle for auction on trade-in or MSRP on a new car, not even on hot models like the new Cayenne and 997 Turbo.
I'm happy that dealer #1 stepped up and made it so I could buy the cars from them. And I'm happy with dealer #2 for being so easy to work with and great prices from the start.
If you recall, I was stuck at dealer #1 and not happy with their prices. To their advantage, the new Cayenne had arrived and the 997 TT was built last week; whereas with dealer #2 I would have to order all over again.
After I told the salesman that I was calling dealer #2, his sales manager called me. He was much more accommodating and said he'd get back to me with a new proposal. I heard later that day from dealer #1 -- they improved their position by $4625. Hey, now we're getting somewhere.
I reached the owner of dealer #2 the next day, explained the situation to him, and he also said he'd get back to me with numbers. The following day (yesterday) he got back to me with a proposal that was $8250 better than the original deal, and $3625 better than the improved deal from dealer #1.
I gave dealer #1 a chance to match the dealer #2 prices. I figured he wouldn't go all the way since he had cars, but he did give me another $1625, or $6250 better than where he started. I agreed to the deal! I traded in both the Cayenne and Boxster today, picked up the new Cayenne, and have 30-45 days to wait for the Turbo.
All's well that ends well. Thanks to all here for the advice and encouragement. A little competition coupled with the info on the internet (including these forums), really do make a difference for the consumer. You don't have to settle for auction on trade-in or MSRP on a new car, not even on hot models like the new Cayenne and 997 Turbo.
I'm happy that dealer #1 stepped up and made it so I could buy the cars from them. And I'm happy with dealer #2 for being so easy to work with and great prices from the start.
...excellent and ONLY working tactics against the dealer (hit them with their own weapons, let them shoot each other and you collect rewards)...
OZRacing
