Pre-Purchase New Cayenne Damage....
11-29-2006, 02:48 AM
#1
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Pre-Purchase New Cayenne Damage....
Looking for a little advice.
Bought a "new" leftover 2005 Cayenne Turbo. Advertised as new (on website, window sticker, salesperson, etc) and sales contract marked as new. Upon getting home, flipped through the books and found a Damage Disclosure (never disclosed prior to purchase)
whereby I found that Cayenne had Suspension Damage. I called dealer to get the story and I was told the car was damaged when someone from the dealership drove over a curb. Seems extreme to bend two rims and ruin two tires (isn't this a fairly capable off road vehicle?).
The printout of the Service order reads as follows:
Labor $1065.75
Ck Suspension Damage
Repair suspension damage: replace pass side rims & tires. Perform align
Parts:
2 Cayenne Design Wheels 1523.56
1 Steering Knuckle (955-341-156-10) 267.01
1 Ball Bearing 96M (955-341-901-00) 143.40
2 New Tires 583.04
Total Parts and Labor 3582.76
OK...now for the littany of questions.
1) I don't know what a steering knuckle or ball bearing 96M are. Do these sound like serious issues?
2) With $1065 of labor, that sounds like a lot of time to change a couple of tires, ball bearing and steering knuckle. Is it possible they had to straighten the car? What would account for so much in labor costs?
3) Even with a price adjustment, would you buy this car or does the lack of disclosure and amount of work create a high suscpicion of lasting problems?
At the time of the sale, I confirmed that this was a "new car" and that the Warranty would start on my purchase date (I was concerned since it was a 2005 and this is 11/06). Upon getting home and discovering this damage (and when it happend--03/05) I again questioned when the Warranty was punched and was told early 05. Hmmm, now i'm learning this is a low mileage (350 miles) demo. Mileage is another issue, but I won't get in to that. And...just how did that accident occur?
Dealer wants me to keep the car. Has offered to do a Porsche Approved inspection for me to gain comfort with the car. Is there anything that would get you guys comfortable that I won't have problems down the road? I'd appreciate the feedback. No need to mention the ethical issues. Also, I'm not interested in disclosing dealer's name (at least not at this point...so please don't ask). I'm trying to give the dealer the chance to make things right, but I'm not sure it is possible at this point.
Thanks.
Bought a "new" leftover 2005 Cayenne Turbo. Advertised as new (on website, window sticker, salesperson, etc) and sales contract marked as new. Upon getting home, flipped through the books and found a Damage Disclosure (never disclosed prior to purchase)
whereby I found that Cayenne had Suspension Damage. I called dealer to get the story and I was told the car was damaged when someone from the dealership drove over a curb. Seems extreme to bend two rims and ruin two tires (isn't this a fairly capable off road vehicle?). The printout of the Service order reads as follows:
Labor $1065.75
Ck Suspension Damage
Repair suspension damage: replace pass side rims & tires. Perform align
Parts:
2 Cayenne Design Wheels 1523.56
1 Steering Knuckle (955-341-156-10) 267.01
1 Ball Bearing 96M (955-341-901-00) 143.40
2 New Tires 583.04
Total Parts and Labor 3582.76
OK...now for the littany of questions.
1) I don't know what a steering knuckle or ball bearing 96M are. Do these sound like serious issues?
2) With $1065 of labor, that sounds like a lot of time to change a couple of tires, ball bearing and steering knuckle. Is it possible they had to straighten the car? What would account for so much in labor costs?
3) Even with a price adjustment, would you buy this car or does the lack of disclosure and amount of work create a high suscpicion of lasting problems?
At the time of the sale, I confirmed that this was a "new car" and that the Warranty would start on my purchase date (I was concerned since it was a 2005 and this is 11/06). Upon getting home and discovering this damage (and when it happend--03/05) I again questioned when the Warranty was punched and was told early 05. Hmmm, now i'm learning this is a low mileage (350 miles) demo. Mileage is another issue, but I won't get in to that. And...just how did that accident occur?
Dealer wants me to keep the car. Has offered to do a Porsche Approved inspection for me to gain comfort with the car. Is there anything that would get you guys comfortable that I won't have problems down the road? I'd appreciate the feedback. No need to mention the ethical issues. Also, I'm not interested in disclosing dealer's name (at least not at this point...so please don't ask). I'm trying to give the dealer the chance to make things right, but I'm not sure it is possible at this point.
Thanks.
11-29-2006, 08:08 AM
#2
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Needs More Cowbell
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Needs More Cowbell
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"New" would imply that the vehicle was never registered for private use, it has little to do with mileage on the odometer or demo status.
At a reasonable Porsche shop rate, that sounds like about 8-9 hours of labor.
Could you please tell us which wheels were replaced? That might help try and determine what happened (both front wheels would be a different scenario than say both driver's side wheels).
Have you run a Carfax? I'm curious to see if this would show up as 'service/repair facility work'. If so, clearly the vehicle had suffered diminished value, based on the assumption that "new" meant no diminished value due to repair/accident work.
Have you checked with the insurance carrier used by the dealership to see if this was covered/reported? Are you sure it was a 'demo' accident?
Have you checked for any other damage? Paint/bodywork?
Should you decide to keep it, the minimal expectation would be a price adjustment for diminished value due to the accident AND a 6yr/100K Porsche CPO warranty.
Interesting from an 'ethical' dealer perspective (funny seeing ethical and car dealer in the same sentence), I'm curious why the dealer would 'beach' a demo car and then repair the damage under a Porsche warranty.....the only reason I could think of would be to have PCNA pay for the repair. It would have been better for them to simply fix it themselves and the incident would never be documented.
Something doesn't quite seem kosher here.
IMHO, I would not keep the car, nor do business with this dealership.
Cayennes are certainly NOT an endangered species, thanks to overproduction you can't swing a dead cat and not hit one.
They depreciate about as fast as the space shuttle falls during re-entry (the shuttle flies about as well as a brick BTW).
I would request a refund and then go find another "new" Cayenne.
But that's just me (Larry).....I'm a bit "jaded", I wouldn't p!ss on Cayenne and/or PCNA's head !f the!r heads were on f!re.
At a reasonable Porsche shop rate, that sounds like about 8-9 hours of labor.
Could you please tell us which wheels were replaced? That might help try and determine what happened (both front wheels would be a different scenario than say both driver's side wheels).
Have you run a Carfax? I'm curious to see if this would show up as 'service/repair facility work'. If so, clearly the vehicle had suffered diminished value, based on the assumption that "new" meant no diminished value due to repair/accident work.
Have you checked with the insurance carrier used by the dealership to see if this was covered/reported? Are you sure it was a 'demo' accident?
Have you checked for any other damage? Paint/bodywork?
Should you decide to keep it, the minimal expectation would be a price adjustment for diminished value due to the accident AND a 6yr/100K Porsche CPO warranty.
Interesting from an 'ethical' dealer perspective (funny seeing ethical and car dealer in the same sentence), I'm curious why the dealer would 'beach' a demo car and then repair the damage under a Porsche warranty.....the only reason I could think of would be to have PCNA pay for the repair. It would have been better for them to simply fix it themselves and the incident would never be documented.
Something doesn't quite seem kosher here.
IMHO, I would not keep the car, nor do business with this dealership.
Cayennes are certainly NOT an endangered species, thanks to overproduction you can't swing a dead cat and not hit one.
They depreciate about as fast as the space shuttle falls during re-entry (the shuttle flies about as well as a brick BTW).
I would request a refund and then go find another "new" Cayenne.
But that's just me (Larry).....I'm a bit "jaded", I wouldn't p!ss on Cayenne and/or PCNA's head !f the!r heads were on f!re.
11-29-2006, 08:14 AM
#3
Nordschleife Master
I can't even explain how pissed off I would be if something like that was not disclosed to me on a NEW car, or so they claim. That would have totally changed your negotiating stance. If, and that is a big if, you decide to keep it, I would do 3 things at the very least and if all 3 are not met by the dealer they could have the CTT back.
(1) Have a THOROUGH and independent PPI done at their expense at the shop of your choosing to which they will be infomed of the shop and cost AFTER it is done to prevent any funny business.
(2) Price adjustment for diminished value
(3) CPO added at their expense
Best of luck. Keep us posted.
(1) Have a THOROUGH and independent PPI done at their expense at the shop of your choosing to which they will be infomed of the shop and cost AFTER it is done to prevent any funny business.
(2) Price adjustment for diminished value
(3) CPO added at their expense
Best of luck. Keep us posted.
11-29-2006, 10:21 AM
#4
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Did this car come from a Penn dealer? As for preserving the dealers good name, that's a little odd? The dealer has already committed the unethical action, not disclosing the accident. I can underdstand not disclosing some paint work or a dented fender, but what happen here seems a little extreme!!!
There is zero chance I would keep this car. While they replaced the few parts with visual damage, it must have been quite the impact to cause that sort of damage, and I would have to believe there is a real possability for more.
There is zero chance I would keep this car. While they replaced the few parts with visual damage, it must have been quite the impact to cause that sort of damage, and I would have to believe there is a real possability for more.
11-29-2006, 10:32 AM
#5
Get a Carfax account and run your VIN. The in-service date should coincide with your purchase date. If it is aligned with 3/05, then the dealer mislead you.
Or, call another dealer, ask for a service advisor..... Ask him/her to tell you the in-service date.
Good luck with this one.
Or, call another dealer, ask for a service advisor..... Ask him/her to tell you the in-service date.
Good luck with this one.
11-29-2006, 10:35 AM
#6
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Return the car, and I mean return it today and leave all the keys and documentation on the Sales Managers desk.
Tell him to phone you in an hour, and in the menatime have picked out a brand new similar car from his inventory (on line).
Then when he is ready for you to go and pick up the new car, go back there.
Otherwise I'd kep my discussions to a minimum. I am sure the Dealer will want to take care of this before attorneys get involved.
Larry's post adds perspective about other potential ethical issues vis a vis warranty work.
The question you might want to ask with a witness around, if the "negotiation" doesn't go your way is why warranty work for collision repair? PCNA might like that one too, but don't show all of your hand, keep your powder dry.
Lastly, it is extremely important for you to determine in advance exactly what you want and why. If is reasonable you will get it, by sticking to your guns.
Tell him to phone you in an hour, and in the menatime have picked out a brand new similar car from his inventory (on line).
Then when he is ready for you to go and pick up the new car, go back there.
Otherwise I'd kep my discussions to a minimum. I am sure the Dealer will want to take care of this before attorneys get involved.
Larry's post adds perspective about other potential ethical issues vis a vis warranty work.
The question you might want to ask with a witness around, if the "negotiation" doesn't go your way is why warranty work for collision repair? PCNA might like that one too, but don't show all of your hand, keep your powder dry.
Lastly, it is extremely important for you to determine in advance exactly what you want and why. If is reasonable you will get it, by sticking to your guns.
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11-29-2006, 03:20 PM
#8
Instructor
Usually, when I smell something like this, I look at both my feet to see what I've stepped in. It's hard to believe that a P dealer would get caught up is something this blatantly wrong.
Keep us up to date.
Keep us up to date.
).
11-30-2006, 10:47 AM
#10
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
OK...here is the update.
I returned the car and reversed the transaction. Took a lot of effort to get dealer to agree to do that, as they kept trying to get me to keep the car and kept calling all the issues "innocent mistakes". Wasted a lot of time on this one, but ultimately, even if they would cut me an "unbelievable price" (which they did not offer), I decided it wasn't worth doing business with someone like this. So, no Cayenne Turbo in the household yet. As my wife pointed out, now my 89 C4 doesn't have to be jealous about a new sister in the garage.
I can't thank you guys enough for your advice/input. As you all probably know, the car buying experience becomes emotional and one can easily forget about what really matters (I just want that freaking car). You guys kept me sane and kept me from experiencing real buyer's remorse.
See you on the track...
I returned the car and reversed the transaction. Took a lot of effort to get dealer to agree to do that, as they kept trying to get me to keep the car and kept calling all the issues "innocent mistakes". Wasted a lot of time on this one, but ultimately, even if they would cut me an "unbelievable price" (which they did not offer), I decided it wasn't worth doing business with someone like this. So, no Cayenne Turbo in the household yet. As my wife pointed out, now my 89 C4 doesn't have to be jealous about a new sister in the garage.
I can't thank you guys enough for your advice/input. As you all probably know, the car buying experience becomes emotional and one can easily forget about what really matters (I just want that freaking car). You guys kept me sane and kept me from experiencing real buyer's remorse.
See you on the track...
11-30-2006, 10:59 AM
#11
Rennlist Member
Thread Starter
Also, for those who were curious and to answer your questions since you took the time to provide me feedback:
1) I got two different stories...but I believe it was the two passenger side wheels
2) Yes we ran a Carfax and nothing showed up
3) Texas delear -- I don't want to disclose name as I still don't have my trade-in back from them (no reason to provoke)
1) I got two different stories...but I believe it was the two passenger side wheels
2) Yes we ran a Carfax and nothing showed up
3) Texas delear -- I don't want to disclose name as I still don't have my trade-in back from them (no reason to provoke)
11-30-2006, 09:38 PM
#12
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Texas is a big State 
...some cities have more than one dealership...without disclosing too much 
, could you say what direction said dealer might be located if you were say standing in the middle of our fine State? 
...some cities have more than one dealership...without disclosing too much , could you say what direction said dealer might be located if you were say standing in the middle of our fine State?
11-30-2006, 10:24 PM
#13
Originally Posted by willfranklin
OK...here is the update.
I returned the car and reversed the transaction. Took a lot of effort to get dealer to agree to do that, as they kept trying to get me to keep the car and kept calling all the issues "innocent mistakes". Wasted a lot of time on this one, but ultimately, even if they would cut me an "unbelievable price" (which they did not offer), I decided it wasn't worth doing business with someone like this. So, no Cayenne Turbo in the household yet. As my wife pointed out, now my 89 C4 doesn't have to be jealous about a new sister in the garage.
I can't thank you guys enough for your advice/input. As you all probably know, the car buying experience becomes emotional and one can easily forget about what really matters (I just want that freaking car). You guys kept me sane and kept me from experiencing real buyer's remorse.
See you on the track...
I returned the car and reversed the transaction. Took a lot of effort to get dealer to agree to do that, as they kept trying to get me to keep the car and kept calling all the issues "innocent mistakes". Wasted a lot of time on this one, but ultimately, even if they would cut me an "unbelievable price" (which they did not offer), I decided it wasn't worth doing business with someone like this. So, no Cayenne Turbo in the household yet. As my wife pointed out, now my 89 C4 doesn't have to be jealous about a new sister in the garage.
I can't thank you guys enough for your advice/input. As you all probably know, the car buying experience becomes emotional and one can easily forget about what really matters (I just want that freaking car). You guys kept me sane and kept me from experiencing real buyer's remorse.
See you on the track...
It is kinda like taking a sucker out of a kids mouth - you closed the transaction, had the CT, and drove it.....but just think that this sucker was tainted with, let's say arsenic on the inside, it tasted good at first, but in the end it would taste nasty and make you sick.
Alright, enough with the stupid analogy - You did do the right thing, you won't be sorry, and you will find another CT to you and your wife's liking
11-30-2006, 11:05 PM
#14
Drifting
Excellent move, that dealer was fully aware of the car's condition.
12-01-2006, 09:40 AM
#15
Instructor
The CT may have been the best one ever built and may have given you many years of trouble free service but the dealer that tried to sell you the car without full and honest disclosure doesn't deserve your business. He knows he did the wrong thing or he wouldn't have taken it back. After all, he now has a titled/used vehicle to sell. Maybe he will disclose to the next prospect the real history of the vehicle. Hope you find another one that will make you forget the first one.