Door handles on one side have to be replaced
01-17-2005, 08:45 PM
#18
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Originally Posted by ltc
Torags,
In order for me to accept and follow your line of reasoning, please tell me where in the owner's manual the door handles are listed as requiring maintenance.
In anticipation of your response, why then does PAG not include a small can of WD40 (or equiv) with each car?
In order for me to accept and follow your line of reasoning, please tell me where in the owner's manual the door handles are listed as requiring maintenance.
In anticipation of your response, why then does PAG not include a small can of WD40 (or equiv) with each car?
From your list of cars, you've been around the block with this stuff. I don't mean to be a smart ***, but I don't care if you're convinced or not. If you want to ventilate about stuff like this that's fine, it keeps PAG's feet to the fire and hopefully they will listen.
I've given a simple solution to a simple issue, if owners want to have the handles changed that's their perogative. But it may not be a solution, the new handles may stick when dry.
PAG is an outsourcing company. My first Pcar, a 1952 club racer had a Volkswagon engine. These cars were assembled in a garage in Austria. They started that way and they're the best at it, that's why they're making so much money.
01-17-2005, 09:08 PM
#19
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Torags,
I didn't think you were being a smart ***.
As I seem to have strayed a bit, my initial contention is that this is yet another design defect. Not a feature, not a user serviceable part.
(for the record, this is merely a reflection of how I think and work. I'm paid to fix other people's attempts at design....and no, I don't care about people's feelings.)
You don't design a door handle that sticks after 1 year. If anything, your design will likely wear with time, increasing clearances; or select proper materials (impregnated lubricant plastics, there are many options here.....without of course affecting $1.4B in profits.
My gripe is that this should never happen, not with a Porsche, especially if you believe the marketing/propaganda funded by $1.4B in profits derived (mainly) from this vehicle. Tested all over the world, arctic, desert, etc.....crap. Anyone can build one of anything (prototypes), good design practice is born out when you make lots of something (Cayennes).
My frustration is with the direction and philosophy of the current company leadership, especially when I look 4-6 years out (don't ask how) and see what's in queue.
As for outsourcing, agreed, it's the nature of the current global economy and design philosophy. However, if you look at a Cayenne, with the exception of the Zuffenhausen produced engine (and not even that with the V6), how much of the car is a Porsche, or put another way, how much is really a Touareg?
Run thru the list sometime (brakes, suspension, electronics, unibody...what's left)?
BTW, with $1.4B in the bank, you can forget about holding people's feet to the fire, trust me, no one's listening.
I didn't think you were being a smart ***.
As I seem to have strayed a bit, my initial contention is that this is yet another design defect. Not a feature, not a user serviceable part.
(for the record, this is merely a reflection of how I think and work. I'm paid to fix other people's attempts at design....and no, I don't care about people's feelings.)
You don't design a door handle that sticks after 1 year. If anything, your design will likely wear with time, increasing clearances; or select proper materials (impregnated lubricant plastics, there are many options here.....without of course affecting $1.4B in profits.
My gripe is that this should never happen, not with a Porsche, especially if you believe the marketing/propaganda funded by $1.4B in profits derived (mainly) from this vehicle. Tested all over the world, arctic, desert, etc.....crap. Anyone can build one of anything (prototypes), good design practice is born out when you make lots of something (Cayennes).
My frustration is with the direction and philosophy of the current company leadership, especially when I look 4-6 years out (don't ask how) and see what's in queue.
As for outsourcing, agreed, it's the nature of the current global economy and design philosophy. However, if you look at a Cayenne, with the exception of the Zuffenhausen produced engine (and not even that with the V6), how much of the car is a Porsche, or put another way, how much is really a Touareg?
Run thru the list sometime (brakes, suspension, electronics, unibody...what's left)?
BTW, with $1.4B in the bank, you can forget about holding people's feet to the fire, trust me, no one's listening.
01-17-2005, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ltc
Torags,
As for outsourcing, agreed, it's the nature of the current global economy and design philosophy. However, if you look at a Cayenne, with the exception of the Zuffenhausen produced engine (and not even that with the V6), how much of the car is a Porsche, or put another way, how much is really a Touareg?
Run thru the list sometime (brakes, suspension, electronics, unibody...what's left)?
BTW, with $1.4B in the bank, you can forget about holding people's feet to the fire, trust me, no one's listening.
As for outsourcing, agreed, it's the nature of the current global economy and design philosophy. However, if you look at a Cayenne, with the exception of the Zuffenhausen produced engine (and not even that with the V6), how much of the car is a Porsche, or put another way, how much is really a Touareg?
Run thru the list sometime (brakes, suspension, electronics, unibody...what's left)?
BTW, with $1.4B in the bank, you can forget about holding people's feet to the fire, trust me, no one's listening.
With the exception of the RMS (which I don't think they have an answer for), I think they have concerns about what people say about the Cayenne (now their flagship product), since it affects the JD Powers survey. That kind of bad press can't go on very long without having an effect on the bottom line (example - Hundai - lost the momentum in the US market)
01-18-2005, 10:40 AM
#22
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Torags,
Thank you for the clarification; I meant Zuffenhausen assembled/dynoed engine, not 100% Zuffenhausen produced components.
I am amused at your statement that the Cayenne is now their 'flagship product'! Care to run that past a few Carrera GT owners? Thanks to my Cayenne ownership, I passed on the CGT, (just adding one more vehicle to the already softening CGT market and moved up production schedule....sort of too bad, as I had been looking forward to that car).
I would think that the Cayenne is now their 'flagship revenue vehicle'.
BTW, what leads you to believe there is no fix for the RMS? Would you be totally surprised if the RMS decision was simply an exercise in economics (3 RMS replacements, then a replacement engine...all to push the issue beyond warranty.....rather than introduce a design which fixes the problem? What, $1.4B isn't enough yet? You will slowly begin to hear of 997 owners with RMS problems...again, already factored into the 3+1 equation.
Trust me, JDPowers has nothing to do with it. It's all about $$ to fund the plan. To quote the character 'Ash' from Alien: All Other Priorities Rescinded.
Thank you for the clarification; I meant Zuffenhausen assembled/dynoed engine, not 100% Zuffenhausen produced components.
I am amused at your statement that the Cayenne is now their 'flagship product'! Care to run that past a few Carrera GT owners? Thanks to my Cayenne ownership, I passed on the CGT, (just adding one more vehicle to the already softening CGT market and moved up production schedule....sort of too bad, as I had been looking forward to that car).
I would think that the Cayenne is now their 'flagship revenue vehicle'.
BTW, what leads you to believe there is no fix for the RMS? Would you be totally surprised if the RMS decision was simply an exercise in economics (3 RMS replacements, then a replacement engine...all to push the issue beyond warranty.....rather than introduce a design which fixes the problem? What, $1.4B isn't enough yet? You will slowly begin to hear of 997 owners with RMS problems...again, already factored into the 3+1 equation.
Trust me, JDPowers has nothing to do with it. It's all about $$ to fund the plan. To quote the character 'Ash' from Alien: All Other Priorities Rescinded.
01-18-2005, 12:37 PM
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'flagship revenue vehicle' = flagship product.
The shouts of the CGT fans are unfortunately, just a social problem indirectly related to income. While PAG wants to keep an element of racing cachet in their marketing profile, the car enthusiast population of pcar owners are being diluted quickly.
You read the posts; a lot of them are more concerned with bling/bling; things that have nothing to do with the performance of the car but more to the appearance of the car.
This market is more inclined to more frequently spend money than the enthusiasts (and more willing to buy new-Bingo for PAG).
The cure for the rms is to use the turbo block w/o the turbo. But the source for that engine is more expensive. My Carrera doesn't have it but if it does, I'm going turbo.
My .02 - which doesn't mean didley.
The shouts of the CGT fans are unfortunately, just a social problem indirectly related to income. While PAG wants to keep an element of racing cachet in their marketing profile, the car enthusiast population of pcar owners are being diluted quickly.
You read the posts; a lot of them are more concerned with bling/bling; things that have nothing to do with the performance of the car but more to the appearance of the car.
This market is more inclined to more frequently spend money than the enthusiasts (and more willing to buy new-Bingo for PAG).
The cure for the rms is to use the turbo block w/o the turbo. But the source for that engine is more expensive. My Carrera doesn't have it but if it does, I'm going turbo.
My .02 - which doesn't mean didley.
01-18-2005, 02:26 PM
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While trolling in the Off Topic (alright, looking for Grid Girls updates), I came across this sentence or two (from a Z06 thread):
"Yeah, brand name is important but sooner or later when you start off great and then use the name for greed instead of continuing the legend of making it better, people will catch on.. we are not that stupid."
"Yeah, brand name is important but sooner or later when you start off great and then use the name for greed instead of continuing the legend of making it better, people will catch on.. we are not that stupid."
01-18-2005, 03:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ltc
Torags,
I agree completely.
I am just having a hard time adjusting to the new Porsche philosophy/demographic.
I agree completely.
I am just having a hard time adjusting to the new Porsche philosophy/demographic.
01-18-2005, 03:34 PM
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Funny you mention it, but I have a Fisher Price toy dinosaur that rides with me in the Cup car! My kids gave it to me, so I just bring it along. Never thought much about it until now.
I'm looking forward to a quiet extinction......................
I'm looking forward to a quiet extinction......................
