ben in lj

Well, the Stradale sounds much better, has better braking feel (and no brake dust is a bonus), feels smaller despite it being less than a foot shorter and exactly the same width (they're within about 100 lbs of each other) while being considerably more comfy (Porsche put fat doors and sills together with that center console which makes it much narrower inside while being the same width outside), and is a better looking car (IMO). The brute power coupled with the ability to remove the top are the keys to the CGT for me - plus actually getting to row my own gears. But, I think the Stradale is the best drive I've thus far had.

BTW, either of these two cars would be a blast on ice - as are all RWDs. I learned car control as a kid in parking lots of snow and ice where I played until I ran out of tires or gas or both :-) The inability to throttle steer coupled with the weight and vague feel of AWD is why I'll not likely every buy an AWD sports car.

bancu

Very interesting comparison on the Stradale and CGT.

Ice is the only place to learn car control to me.

I hear you on the throttle steer and vague feel but I'll still stick to the AWD/SUV thing. I once got stuck on an Interstate between client sites for over 14 hours in a sports car. I had Blizzaks on and was ready for anything except being able to jump the median to get to the East bound lane and around the 18 wheelers that had slid and were blocking the West lane.

Don't get me wrong. Truck drivers are great! Swift drivers are even better in my book. The guy and his wife behind me handed out sandwiches (I hadn't eaten baloney in year, hate rye and don't do yellow mustard...but it was the best sandwich I'll have in my life) and soft drinks. He even offered let me crash in his sleeper since "I don't know how much gas you fit into one of these small sporty things".

cobalt

[QUOTE=ben in lj]Well, the Stradale sounds much better, has better braking feel (and no brake dust is a bonus), feels smaller despite it being less than a foot shorter and exactly the same width (they're within about 100 lbs of each other) while being considerably more comfy But, I think the Stradale is the best drive I've thus far had.

BTW, either of these two cars would be a blast on ice - as are all RWDs. I learned car control as a kid in parking lots of snow and ice where I played until I ran out of tires or gas or both :-) QUOTE]

cobalt

[QUOTE=ben in lj]Well, the Stradale sounds much better, has better braking feel (and no brake dust is a bonus), feels smaller despite it being less than a foot shorter and exactly the same width (they're within about 100 lbs of each other) while being considerably more comfy But, I think the Stradale is the best drive I've thus far had.

BTW, either of these two cars would be a blast on ice - as are all RWDs. I learned car control as a kid in parking lots of snow and ice where I played until I ran out of tires or gas or both :-) QUOTE]

I can never say a bad thing about how any Ferrari sounds. They all sound phenomenal. But to say that the Stradale sounds much better than the CGT I have a hard time understanding. Have not had the opportunity to hear the CGT from the drivers seat so that may be were I am lost, but side by side I find it hard to complain or find fault with the sound of either. The CGT whin while accelerating sounds just as intoxicating to me as any F1 car.

Talking about problems with cars. We are all aware of the endless problems Ferrari owners have and although they have come a long way over the years they still have a lot to be desired in the area of reliability. I know of one Enzo tat has been in the shop numerous times in the first 6 months of ownership. If you base it on a seat time/fix time ratio the numbers are not to good.

I guess I would not like the CGT very much since I barely fit into most Ferrari's. I find them to be a bit to confining for my tastes. Although sitting in the CGT(once i could get myself in, not very gracefully) did not feel that cramped to me. Then again the top was removed and the experience may have shadowed how I would have felt over time. I am sure the 60-130 and up time on the CGT must make it worth something over all these other cars. You must be 5+ seconds quicker than the Stradale in that department.

Stirs

I had two Cayenne S's a 2003 and 2004 and experienced many of the problems discussed in this thread and others. After owning two 911's I was astonished at Porsche's lack of concern for it's customers. After trading the second Cayenne at a huge loss I sold my '03 911C4S and would never even consider purchasing another Porsche. My decision was reaffirmed after reading that Porcshe show indiffernce even to individuals who are capable of purchasing their CGT model. For what it is worth our late model year 2004 V8 Touareg has been realtively problem free and the dealer was mable to correct all of the minor issues that arose.

mudman2

If you were in their position you would do the same. No company would allow itself to be blackmailed into doing something it thinks is against its best interest.

The people to which you refer are a small minority of the global market for Porsche and while a highly profitable minority, not one which will sustain the company long term.

Enjoy your Treg and good luck with it.

cobalt

I find it astonishing that people on this forum expect car companies to behave like their best friend. I have never had any car company ever treat obscure problems with their product as though it is a concern or priority. Unlesss enough feedback was accumulated and a TSB is generated there is nothing any car company will do until this step has been accomplished. Why should Porsche be expected to excel beyond all others? At the same time why will we accept mediocrity from others and not from Porsche?

I have always believed in the rule of thumb. "Never buy a car in its first production year" Why is VW exempt from their issues yet Porsche is not? I know of several people with Cayennes and several with Toerags. Yet non of the Cayennes that I know of have any major issues and all of the Toerags do. In the case of one Toerag they tried replacing everything including a new tranny and still the people are having problems. This was obviously a big learning experience for both Porsche and VW and until these glitches are resolved there is not much that can be done. I sympathize with those of you that have problems but I don't see any lack of response on Porsches part to resolve these problems. These things do take time and form what I am reading the TSB's are coming and people are finding the solutions to be favorable for the most part.

The vehicle is still outstanding for its size and weight. I wouldn't throw my money away on any other SUV available today for what is being offered pails in comparison. I think you will find over time that Porsche resolves all these problems and the majority of owners will be satisfied.

Stirs

Mudman:

If you conisder expecting good customer service as blackmail than I am glad I am not a customer of yours.

Cobalt:

I expected only acknowledgment from Porsche whose regional representaive would not even speak or meet with me. We all paid a heavy premium for the Porsche badge and have a right to expect more.

I stopped posting here long ago because many of the regulars find it necessary to attack others who have had problems and have been totally mistreated by Porsche after spending considerable amounts of money. My post is only intended to hopefully help someone else avoid the mistakes I made.

mudman2

Of course I expect, and get excellent service from Porsche. But using the purchase of one car as leverage over the head of a company on condition of purchasing another is blackmail, wrapped up in psycho babble.

philg3

Actually, I agree with Stirs -- call it what you will -- blackmail or what ever. If I had a bad experience with any company, I would look elsewhere in the future. I've learned that from experience. For instance, years ago I had a 320is that shook in the front end, and couldn't be fixed. Then I bought a 528e that always had the A/C cycling device freezing up, and splitting. Finally, I had a very unsatisfying X5 experience. I've had enough with BMW. It's really simple, companies that treat me well and produce a good product get my repeat business as they have earned it.

That said, my experience with Porsche has been very good -- with a very reliable 996 (first year production), and my CT that has had a few issues, but have been resolved for the most part. My CT works like a dream with no hesitation, and the transmission is in the right gear at the right time particularly in the mountains; it responds instantly in upgrades and down grades without any action on my part. I know that some of you have not been as fortunate as I regarding your 'C', and I certainly would understand if you were apprehensive of purchasing another Porsche vehicle.

mudman2

I don't disagree, taking your business elseware is always the buyers perogative, thats exactly what I would do given that I felt the same.

I suppose the real problem is that there is nothing out there to move to that gets close to the experience of a Pepper. (IMHO of course)

JARO

good point mudman!!! there is simply nothing out there! Watch someone posting in reply and mentioning Toureg or RX or Range or Land Rover...these trucks do not compare to Porsche PERIOD!
I have a 10/03 build Cay S and simply have no issues. Of course it would be nice to have maintnance included (like my BMW or MB I had) and get 20+ gal per mile bit hey you can't have it all. This SUV is a marvel of today's car technology and is built to last and will outlast most of not all of the cars or trucks on the road today. If you want a red carpet to be rolled out for you everytime you visit then go ahead and visit Lexus. Of you are a true car enthusiast and appreciate what is under the hood of the Cay then suck it up and enjoy and do not let the little crap bother you.

Sasquatch

Input from a lurker here that is considering a Cayenne S.

I disagree with this statement. Last spring I was on a motorcycle trip on my new Triumph Tiger from Idaho to SoCal, back up the coast, through Oregon and then home. In the middle of the Mojave, a high pressure fuel fitting failed. After a $300 tow bill to get me to Needles CA., I called my dealer in Boise. This is Friday afternoon mind you. I am a mechanic, so I told him exactly what had failed. He got me TWO sets of these fittings that he had to rob off of new bikes on the showroom, hand delivered to Fedex before they closed and had them delivered on Saturday to the hotel I was at.

Monday morning I recieved a call from a customer support person at Triumph corportate US HQ. He expressed deep regret that my bike had failed under such harsh conditions and inquired how the repair went, and what the details were. By the time I got home, I had a care package from Triumph with a new bike cover, tank bag and service manual inside. The note said that Triumph was really sorry for the failure and they hoped that the "gifts" would make me feel better.

It worked. Triumph has a customer for life. Not only did their dealer go above and beyond, but the company backed them up 110% to satisfy the situation, before it became a situation. The bike broke down in a bad place, yeah, it happenes. But the company took full responsiblity for it. So service like this can come from Porsche if they chose to.

cobalt

I guess we should all trade in our Cayenne's for Triumphs. Seriously, I have never had a problem with a car dealership when the issue was a know problem and/or a corrective action TSB had been issued regarding the subject or if it was a cheap and easy fix. Most of the time they are willing to make a good faith appearance to go out of their way for the customer in these cases. If its truly broken they have to fix it. Especially if safety is an issue. In your case you were obviously stranded and in a potentially hazardous situation that could have resulted in a much worse result, you also saved them a lot of aggravation by resolving the issue yourself.

It is in cases like these were the problem is subjective and usually cannot easily be recreated by the dealership or that there is no objective evidence or existing TSB other than the customers word that the business side shows up. They can easily start changing out parts, but that is very expensive and without the evidence that a problem truly exists they will not make an effort to go out of their way. Besides if the problem does exist it still needs to be evaluated and addressed formerly before any action will be taken. Otherwise everyone who owns these vehicles can just start bringing their Cayennes in and say it is flawed because I don't like the way it is performing. I believe other than the hesitation issue most other problems are always addressed and resolved.

I am sure if a significant failure occurred with a Cayenne that is Porsches fault, Porsche would do the same as Triumph. I don't see any of the issues addressed with the delay issue that cannot be temporarily addressed by a change in driving style. Although I do not have any major issues with my Cayenne and I do not doubt that others do. I am sure that a less aggressive driving style can help until Porsche figures out this obscure problem and addresses it properly. You will most likely see either a recall or at min a TSB to cover these problems. It obviously will take time to correct. Unfortunately for those few that have these problems Porsche is not moving fast enough for them or they feel that for the price paid that no problems should occur even though it is brand new technology. It is very possible Porsche Beta tested these things on the public although I doubt it. Only time will tell. For those with the problems I hope Santa brings them a TSB for Xmas the rest of us will be enjoying our Cayennes which we all feel are phenomenal SUV's.

Torags

It seems that the contributers to these forums are more knowledgable owners than those that don't engage here.

I've seen evidence that when a disgruntled owner is treated sympathically and cordially, that owner can become a defensive dealer cheerleader.

On the other hand, arbitrary dismissive comments by a service rep (who in some cases - may know less than you do about global issues) - can make an owner furious about the Pcar experience.

The owner expectations should include a recognition that this vehicle has performance compromises. It is a 5,000lb+ vehicle that can tow over 7,000lb. It is not a 4,000lb sedan or a run of the mill suv that tows 3,500lb - 5,000lb. Comparisons with these vehicles are worthless.

That said we all expect good alignment, keys that work etc..

Just my .02