Ha...

No need to apologize, I appreciate irreverance......

 

I'm sure it was just a joke... Nothing appeared to be personal.

There is no shortage of shrinks that adhere to the car/penal association.

They are with the folks who promote the stereotype of a guy who buys a performance car after the kids are gone & say he is trying to reclaim his youth. Some BS about a mid life crisis; hell I've had bikes for 35 yrs & you can't believe what they say about me.

Perhaps it's healthy not to take ourselves too seriously. Just my .02.

 

Psych docs do have a way of projecting themselves onto their patients, or so I have been told.

 

Torags,



There is a difference between penal and penile. Only the right (wrong!) woman could reconcile the two. Now back to the topic Tourage versus Cayenne. Maybe the V-10 for those outside of California is the real deal.

 

Oooops (penal=jail)

 

Doug, you know you and I are on the same page on this ..... I hear many critics say the Cayenne is not worth the extra $15K+ over a Toureg. I look at it a bit differently - driving differences aside, I believe the Toureg I drove (sticker price $50k) was priced $15K more than I was willing to pay for any vehcile with a VW badge (btw, I currently own 2 VW's as vehicles for employees and have owned many others). The Toureg is a detuned Cayenne in my eyes. And I don't want to drive a detuned vehicle!

Finally, I like this description of the Cayenne by German model-maker Minichamps:

"Hardly ever before was a car in breach of its manufacturer's tradition as much as the new "Cayenne" by Porsche. The idea of owning an Off Road vehicle is certainly not completely strange to friends of the famous sports car manufacturer, but nevertheless, Porsche's decision to enter the growing market of the Sports Utility Vehicles came as a big surprise. The result of the painstaking development work on the new project is convincing- under technical aspects and optically as well. A driver who catches sight of the Cayenne for the first time when looking into his rear-view mirror will identify it without fail as a Porsche. If not, he will certainely do so a few seconds later at sight of the Cayenne's back end, just having been overtaken by one of the world's fastest all-terrain vehicles. Appropriately for Zuffenhausen products, road handling and road performance rise above any doubt. It appears that Porsche has come closer to squaring a circle than its competitors will like. "

 

"Appropriately for Zuffenhausen products..."

Nice try, but aren't our Cs actually built out in some Skoda plant in Eastern Europe and then final assembled in Leipzig? This may explain some of the initial build quality problems. I've read that the Eastern European manufacturing workforce has some of the attitudinal and work ethic habits of 1970s era Detroit car builders. God forbid.

 

The Cayenne and Touareg are built in a completely modern and automated VW facility in Bratislava, Slovakia. The Cayennes' drivetrains are installed in another modern and automated facility in Leipzig (which was also Eastern Europe in the not too distant past, by the way). Rest assured that neither factory in any way resembles anything out of Detroit in the 1970s, except for the fact that they are producing badge engineered, overweight, 5,000+ pound wagons.

BMW and Mercedes also had some teething problems when they introduced their first SUVs built in new factories outside of their native lands. It's to be expected.

 

Point was relative to the labor force, not the plant. And, yes, I know Leipzig is/was in East Germany.

 

I'm sure they were referring to "Zuffenhausen" in the figurative sense only .....

And why precisely is a vehicle of this type - at 5000 pounds - "overweight"? I know that's a popular thing to say, but it really doesn't make a lot of sense. The Cayenne is not a 996. It's not a sportscar. It's a utility vehicle capable of towing over 7000 pounds!!! Have any of those who call the C "overweight" spent any time towing a trailer? The last thing you want is a lightweight tow vehicle that produces the "tail wagging the dog" effect. Anyone who describes the C as overweight, fails to understand the basic concept of the vehicle they are attempting to criticize. Look at other vehicles with similar tow-ratings - most weigh more. The brilliant part of the C is the fact that it DOES weigh 5000 pounds, it IS capable of towing 7000 pounds and yet it still performs like a sportscar. What a concept!

 

I agree that the Cayenne handles extremely well when its other capabilities are considered. That's why I'm thinking about buying one. However, it doesn't handle like a sports car...it handles like a good sports sedan.

And it is overweight, whether you are considering length, towing capacity, or both (both are important when evaluating a tow vehicle). Especially from a manufacturer with a decorated history of conquering the competition with less mass. Here are stats from Car and Driver:

Dodge Durango
201 in
5312 bs
8700 lb towing cap

Ford Expedition
206 in
5757 lbs
8650 lb towing cap

Nissan Armada
207 in
5614 lbs
9000 lb towing cap

Porsche Cayenne S
188 in
5612 lbs
7700 lb towing cap

Oh, and both the Dodge and Nissan beat the Cayenne to 60mph.

 

The Dodge drives and handles like a truck. Given the looks of the Nissan, I cannot image that it would be too much in the handling department either.

Irregardless of towing capacities listed by manufacturers, I can say without a doubt that the Cayenne tows my 21 foot ski boat better than my wife's old 2001 Tahoe which also had a larger towing capacity. The Cayenne drives like the boat is not there and it stops so much better than the Tahoe when in tow. I also towed with a Durango and it did not tow nearly as well as the Tahoe.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Alan Smithee
However, it doesn't handle like a sports car...it handles like a good sports sedan.


Alan,

I like the sports sedan analogy, but when pushed and properly set up, it handles far better (at least the TT) than a sports sedan -- closer to a 996. The problem for me is -- I can't believe that it performs like it does. It is big, and I don't push it to its limits (can't anyway in everyday driving); its size is disconcerting (challenging?) since I'm used to smaller cars.

And, I love the versatility: with M+S tires, I can drive the mountains and still have a performer; with performance tires, I can have a blast in the corners.

I believe the TT to be a fabulousblend of performance, comfort and utility.

Craig

 

I guess you have to own or have driven 996s to draw the connection, but the Cayenne immediately reminded me of just a big 996 in the way it drove. Sure it is not exactly the same, but that was my initial impression and what I told my wife on the cell phone 2 blocks from the dealership.

 

Hey Guys, I just got back from a 3k road trip from sunny New Mexico out to the beautiful west coast. I had a hard time deciding between the 964 and the Touareg for the journey......the Touareg won because of the luggage space. Upon the much awaited travel down highway 1, I noticed a beautiful Cayenne coming up on me like I was going backwards, which of course got my adrenaline pumping. The Cayenne passed and we both followed a slower moving car for a couple of miles until it turned off at a view point. The Cayenne driver quickly accelerated away until I put the pedal to the metal, that is. The Touareg kept up with the Cayenne's every move for about 5 miles, where we both pulled into a road side restaurant parking lot. The C owner's perception of the Touareg was very much like what I see here, until that afternoon..... he was truly amazed at the Touaregs performance and quite frankly, so was I....although I could feel the 5,300 lbs as opposed to the 964's 3,200, The tires never once groaned through the corners (may have been the management system(s), but I never heard or felt a system engage). The acceleration equaled the Cayenne's... period. Some of you guys may not like the style, name or road characteristics of the Touareg, but don' think your "S" will blow one away, kuz it won't.........