ltc

Has anyone checked their local regions to see if Cayennes are allowed at DE's?

I recall some conversations last year (at Watkins Glen I think) regarding questions as to if they would run in a seperate class, instructor qualificaitons and visibility concerns regarding a 911 running behind a Cayenne. If they are not allowed, I think it would be a first in PCA history.

I also seem to recall that the Cayenne Turbo turned a VERY quick lap time at the Nurburgring with Walter Rohr driving.

DC from Cape Cod

8m28s.....same as a 993.

jhunt@huntinter

Uh huh... Walter Rohr would be also be very quick in a Fiat compare to most of us.

Brent 89-GT

I think it is already beyond just DE's, I am pretty sure that there is a PCA club racing class for the Cayenne.

The Cayenne in DE wouldn't worry me one bit. My region normally runs four groups by speed. I can not see any problem with them running the two lower groups. If you are following and concerned about not being seen, why not just give it some room?

I plan to get my wife started in DE in our Cayenne, I think it is a great experience for any driver in just about any vehicle. She wont try it in my 928, it sits to low for her

Renn 951

PCA Potomac is not allowing them in DE events just yet. They do offer several High Performance Driving Clinics each year as an "entry" level DE, with lots of car control exercises and some lapping on the small Jefferson Circuit at Summit Point. They will welcome Cayennes into the HPDCs, and depending on observations on how they perform they will consider some means of allowing them in the full DE events next year.

A concern I'd have for the safety of Cayennes in DE would be if one went off track into a gravel trap. I've seen sports cars roll over from going into the gravel without keeping the wheels straight (they keep fighting trying to save the car from going off, and end up really messing up.) Even with PSM, the higher center of gravity in a Cayenne won't forgive the laws of physics. IMHO, I'd be more concerned about beginning drivers making this mistake than a veteran track driver.

pdxjim

At the Oregon Region's November Rainbonnet, they were allowed and did quite well. Hurley Haywood was even available for trips around the track in an S type truck.

Jeffrey Behr

Arizona is and we'll be at Phoenix Int.'s infield road course this weekend during our PCA race.

Brent 89-GT

"A concern I'd have for the safety of Cayennes in DE would be if one went off track into a gravel trap. I've seen sports cars roll over from going into the gravel without keeping the wheels straight (they keep fighting trying to save the car from going off, and end up really messing up.) Even with PSM, the higher center of gravity in a Cayenne won't forgive the laws of physics. IMHO, I'd be more concerned about beginning drivers making this mistake than a veteran track driver."

Anything can be rolled over if the driver makes a mistake. That is why instructors ride with new drivers. You are correct, you can not alter physics, but hopefully the Cayenne drives have some common sense. It should be pretty obvious that they will not be cornering with the lowered, stiffened cars on the track. If it isn't, they may crash. Then Darwinism will set in and the track will soon be Cayenne free

I guess my feeling is, most Cayenne drivers will make one or two DE's before realizing that it is a truck, as fast truck but still too much for a racetrack. They will then buy a car and tow it with the Cayenne

I plan to have my wife do DE in the Cayenne to get her hooked on track driving. I do not plan to have her do DE regularly in it, can you imagine how that hog would burn through tires? It is a way to get her involved, and have a neat SUV.

ljugete

Did you guys see that Walter Rohr picked a Cayenne "S" as one of his "Top Ten All Time Porsches" in the last issue of Excellence?

I surely believe this famous racing champion's opinion - given that he has driven / raced all of the best Porsches, Ferrari's, Audi's, etc,... in the market!

jhunt@huntinter

Not to rain on that parade, but seeing how Walter is a factory man, and how the factory really needs the Cayenne to be credible and successful, this would not be a huge surprise.

Ask someone who's job doesn't rely on whay they say for a straight opinion (who know's, they may still like the Cayenne).

Difference Engine

We had this discussion at our meetings last year. Cayennes have already appeared at autocross events, and have done very well. i think it was decided that Cayennes will be welcome at DEs, but would run in a seperate class.

Renn 951

Brent:

I didn't mean to imply that your wife shouldn't try driving the Cayenne on the track -- from my observations it is not usually the women who overshoot the boundaries of common sense on the track! It's just that even with an instructor, the margin for error would be less in certain situations and I'd worry most about the gravel traps in certain turns. I think the approach PCA Potomac is taking, welcoming Cayennes for their HP Driving Clinics, is prudent since the emphasis is on car control exercises and the small track they use for lapping doesn't present those types of dangers. And I believe you are right on target that regular tracking in a Cayenne would result in serious investments in new tires (and brake pads!) Getting your wife introduced to track driving in a way she is comfortable is a great idea. My wife was a bit intimidated in our 951 at first, but she stuck with it for a few events until everything finally clicked for her at Watkins Glen last summer and now she is hooked!

jhunt:

I wouldn't discount Walter Rohrl's comments on the Cayenne just because he's working for Porsche. I met Walter two years ago in Austria when I was attending the Audi Ice Driving School there. His ties with Audi go way back to when he was driving and winning in their rally cars, and they brought him in as a "guest instructor" who took us out on the ice course in an A4 (at night!) and gave us the ride of our lives! We had a chance to chat with him afterwards, and he commented that he had just come back from Finland where he was doing testing on the yet-to-be-released Cayenne at the arctic test facility, and he was absolutely raving about what a wonderful car the Cayenne was! This was to a bunch of Audi enthusiasts; he had nothing to gain by promoting the Cayenne. I was frankly very impressed to see in the current Excellence that his enthusiasm for the Cayenne has remained strong two years later!

jhunt@huntinter

I have a lot of respect for Walter and would be first in line to give me a ride sometime (I'll even provide the car). And he is free to say and support anything he wants and what he says may in fact be accurate. But independence goes a long way in my book when it comes to evaluating cars. When Bill Ford says the new mustang is a great car, I take that with a grain of salt. But when Bill Ford says the new Cayenne is a great car then that would carry some weight.

John

Brent 89-GT

Renn,

The point I want to make is that I think some are overly worried about the Cayenne on the track. I have seen MUCH worse choices out there in the novice group. On my first day a few years ago I had an '82 Corvette out there. You could smell burning brakes a half a lap before you caught it I have seen VW Jettas out there on all season tires, I could go on but I think the point is made. I also think that people are under estimating the trucks capabilities. It rides on pretty good sized rubber especially with 19 or 20's. It has big brakes, plenty big until you start pushing hard. The suspension is really tight when in sport, too firm for road use.

I guess my opinion on the whole thing is that few Cayennes will see more than a couple DE's ever. I wouldn't dispute for a second that track driving is really not what it was meant for. I doubt that you will see any more incidents with Cayennes than any other model. Also keep in mind that these are daily drivers for most owners and they are not as likely to push it if they need to drive it to work on Monday.

Cupcar#12

My wife drove one at VIR & loved it - her first time on a track as well and she was giving it hell.
Don't see why they would or should not be allowed.
The PCA DE safetly is another issue entirely - while they have a good record - i don't like that many cars on track at once - so even if i had a car to track i doupt i would attend anymore PCA events