I regularly attend (and instruct) at DEs (with PCA Potomac) and am adamantly against allowing Cayennes in DE's as the events are presently formatted. I would not participate in events that allowed Cayennes and I bet a lot of the other instructors feel the same way. We in Potomac are a pretty strict lot and are very concerned about running a safe DE program- and while the jury is still out I don't think Cayennes are going to be allowed. I also understand that Summit Point (our "home" track) already prohibits them and other "trucks" from participating.

The ramifications of an incident between a Cayenne and say, a 914 or 924, are too terrible to imagine. Say what you will but incidents do happen and the weight and weight distribution of the Cayenne could do serious (lethal) damage to the far smaller sports cars that inhabit DE events. It would probably also have a big impact on the procurement of insurance once an incident has occured.

We could have separate classes for Cayennes only or off road events but participation in regular DE's as scripted should be banned. Your Cayenne might have sports car handling characteristics but it is NOT a sports car and has no business being on a race track with inexperienced drivers in far smaller, lighter cars.

You can't think of a reason they should be banned? Ask yourself if you want to be sitting in the 914 that just spun and stopped in the middle of the track when Joe Invincible in in his Cayenne Twin Turbo ignores the yellow flags (I didn't see them!!) and rounds the corner heading straight for you. Or imagine the student in the 914 is your son, daughter close friend etc.....

HPDC's are another story- ours are organized around a series of driving exercises where cars are running singly, they're run on a much smaller (slower) track and the actual driving time running the full track is strictly limited and granted only to those who have done all of the preliminary exercises. I have no problem allowing virtually anything in these as currently scripted.

 

George, does your PCA club allow race cars to participate? At our Oregon region, I go out in my SCCA Spec Racer Ford (1640 lbs w/driver) and mix it up with the twin turbos, etc, that weigh at least twice as much as I do. I think maybe you should drive a Cayenne on the track before engaging in the melodrama.

 

So my 3600lb 928 barrelling along at 100+ mph ISN'T going to be leathal to the 1800lb 914 driver as well?

I guess everybody's DE's are set up a little differently. I have never attended one not run by my region, Nord Stern. Our home track is BIR, 3 miles 10 turns. There are rarely more than 15 cars in a run group, that is 1000 feet of track for each car out there. This is DE, not a race, I still do not see the problem. I have no idea what my region is planning right now for the Cayenne. This has spurred me to inquire however.

 

Nord Stern will be allowing the Cayenne at DE events, just like any new Porsche model. The two instructors that replied to my query had no problem with it.

 

We are having these debates on our own web site. I've stated my position- melodramatically or not.

If Cayenne's are allowed in DE's there should be, IMO, separation by weight class. With the very few Cayenne's and large #s of sports cars I don't think thats going to be possible at least yet.

A 3,600 lb 928 with a low center of gravity is going to do a whole lot less damage to the 914 than a 5,000 pound Cayenne with a high center of gravity.

While we already have fairly large disparities in weights- everything from Radicals to 962's participate and a lot of these are pure race cars - we don't have the disparity a Cayenne would introduce. The heaviest cars I see are the 928's and there aren't very many of these (fewer every year in fact). Most are in the 2,000 to 3,100 range. I think the Cayenne pushes the envelope too far and that allowing them could much more easily lead to a catastrophe.

Sorry if you don't agree.

 

Fortunately for me it doesn't matter if we agree or not. My region is following what appears to be the majority of PCA regions and PCNA, they are allowing the Cayenne to participate.

I still contend that the Cayenne is really no more dangersous than anything else out there. In addition, in five years of DE I can not recall a single incident involving contact between cars. The chance for an incident is always there, regardless of the vehicles involved. Good instruction, adherence to the rules, and attentive corner workers all strike me as far more important than the wieght of a specific vehicle on the track.

Forgive me if I am over stepping here but, I have to comment that this attitude smacks of the days when watercooled Porsches were shunned. I suspect that just as watercooled Porsches have been accepted, and boxters and 996 cabs allowed to run without additional rollover protection in DE, that this too shall pass. In the end I predict that the outcome of this issue will be that the fears of the majority will be layed to rest based on positive experiences, just as the past conflicts have been resolved.

 

My first Porsche was watercooled. I bet my next one will be too. I never saw them shunned but do remember the "I don't lift for 911s" tags on 914s.

I have been participating in DE's only for about eight or nine years now so I am far from the most experienced. But I have seen a lot of incidents (most single car but quite a few not) and every season there is at least one serious one. My attitude stems from the physics involved- period.

Please note I'm not against allowing Cayenne's in DE's per se I'm against allowing them in as the events are presently organized. As previously stated Cayenne's are not sports cars and I think it is dangerous to put something that big and that top heavy on a race track with smaller, lighter, lower cars.

IMO if people want to get on a race track and drive at their limits with sports cars they should get a sports car too- and not an SUV. What it says on the hood should have nothing to with it.

BTW I've also participated in Porsche's own "DE" program- the Porsche Driver Experience. Do THEY allow a mix of students in 996/Boxsters and Cayenne's to play on the track at the same time and pass each other?

They don't.

Until they do I think its the height of hypocrisy for them to encourage individual clubs (with far less experienced instructors and a far less structured program itself) to do so.

 

At our Oregon region event in November, Hurley Haywood was out there in an S and a region member was out there in his TT. This was in the dry and there were no problems. I would have driven my S if it was raining but it was not :-(.

 

Mr. Haywood was my instructor at PDE. Unbelievable talent. From hundreds of yards away he told me (over the radio): "Get your eyes up!".

When I asked him how he knew I wasn't focused far enough down the track he said he watched the nose of the car. Anyway he was right- it was a problem I had to work hard at to overcome.

I still remember the hot laps at PDE with Hurley and Doc Bundy as one of the best driving experiences I've ever had.