Cayenne S vs Toureg V8
02-21-2004, 04:00 AM
#46
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Originally posted by rockitman
Ahhh, aren't you forgetting something??? Perhaps the Porsche 4.5 Litre V8??? That is a serious upgrade over the VW, IMO....
6 Piston Brembo front brakes also comes to mind...
Ahhh, aren't you forgetting something??? Perhaps the Porsche 4.5 Litre V8??? That is a serious upgrade over the VW, IMO....
6 Piston Brembo front brakes also comes to mind...
Whether the Cayenne's extra 25hp and 8lb/ft torque is worth the money over the Touareg's also excellent V8 (the 4.2 having proven reliable for 10 years now in myriad Audis, vs. unknown Porsche V8 reliability), is of course debateable.
Personally, it's the Porsche's steering, suspension tuning, and appearance that's drawing me to the Cayenne.
02-21-2004, 10:46 AM
#47
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Originally posted by Alan Smithee
(the 4.2 having proven reliable for 10 years now in myriad Audis, vs. unknown Porsche V8 reliability), is of course debateable.
(the 4.2 having proven reliable for 10 years now in myriad Audis, vs. unknown Porsche V8 reliability), is of course debateable.
My guess is that many, many 928 owners would likely vehemently challenge you on your assertion of question reliability. The water-cooled V8 is not a new and novel concept for Porsche. I seem to recall that the 928 was quite reliable and proved the critics wrong about Porsche and its ability to engineer and produce water-cooled V8 engine technology.
02-21-2004, 11:43 AM
#48
Burning Brakes
Hey! I own one of those watercooled V8 Porsches, soon to own TWO watercooled V8 Porsches
The V8 in the 928 is indeed a very durable engine. It is designed to run 300,000 miles between rebuilds. It's only two known faults have been cured for Cayenne duty. They now use a dry sump oiling system, does the Audi engine? and they have replaced the belt cam drives with chains to avoid the belt change interval. I have plenty of faith in the Cayenne engine. I don't have much faith in Audi period, they continue to have reliability issues.
You guys also missed the torque bias, the VW is 50/50 while the Cayenne is 38/62. This enlivens the handling even more. It takes burden from the steering wheels, and is probably partially responsible for the better feel. VW and Audi owners, used to horrible front drive steering feel, likely do not notice this.
VW owners seem to see value purely in dollars and sense versus features. Porsche buyers have always been different, passion, desire and the cofidence that the company has gone the extra mile in several unseen places to make thier product unique. If you can not see or feel that, it is indeed pointless to spend the extra money. To say it is about a hood badge is ignorant, but I accept the fact that ignorance runs rampant in society these days.
The V8 in the 928 is indeed a very durable engine. It is designed to run 300,000 miles between rebuilds. It's only two known faults have been cured for Cayenne duty. They now use a dry sump oiling system, does the Audi engine? and they have replaced the belt cam drives with chains to avoid the belt change interval. I have plenty of faith in the Cayenne engine. I don't have much faith in Audi period, they continue to have reliability issues.You guys also missed the torque bias, the VW is 50/50 while the Cayenne is 38/62. This enlivens the handling even more. It takes burden from the steering wheels, and is probably partially responsible for the better feel. VW and Audi owners, used to horrible front drive steering feel, likely do not notice this.
VW owners seem to see value purely in dollars and sense versus features. Porsche buyers have always been different, passion, desire and the cofidence that the company has gone the extra mile in several unseen places to make thier product unique. If you can not see or feel that, it is indeed pointless to spend the extra money. To say it is about a hood badge is ignorant, but I accept the fact that ignorance runs rampant in society these days.
02-21-2004, 11:04 PM
#49
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Originally posted by Brent 89-GT
Hey! I own one of those watercooled V8 Porsches, soon to own TWO watercooled V8 Porsches The V8 in the 928 is indeed a very durable engine. It is designed to run 300,000 miles between rebuilds. It's only two known faults have been cured for Cayenne duty. They now use a dry sump oiling system, does the Audi engine? and they have replaced the belt cam drives with chains to avoid the belt change interval. I have plenty of faith in the Cayenne engine. I don't have much faith in Audi period, they continue to have reliability issues.
You guys also missed the torque bias, the VW is 50/50 while the Cayenne is 38/62. This enlivens the handling even more. It takes burden from the steering wheels, and is probably partially responsible for the better feel. VW and Audi owners, used to horrible front drive steering feel, likely do not notice this.
VW owners seem to see value purely in dollars and sense versus features. Porsche buyers have always been different, passion, desire and the cofidence that the company has gone the extra mile in several unseen places to make thier product unique. If you can not see or feel that, it is indeed pointless to spend the extra money. To say it is about a hood badge is ignorant, but I accept the fact that ignorance runs rampant in society these days.
Hey! I own one of those watercooled V8 Porsches, soon to own TWO watercooled V8 Porsches
The V8 in the 928 is indeed a very durable engine. It is designed to run 300,000 miles between rebuilds. It's only two known faults have been cured for Cayenne duty. They now use a dry sump oiling system, does the Audi engine? and they have replaced the belt cam drives with chains to avoid the belt change interval. I have plenty of faith in the Cayenne engine. I don't have much faith in Audi period, they continue to have reliability issues.You guys also missed the torque bias, the VW is 50/50 while the Cayenne is 38/62. This enlivens the handling even more. It takes burden from the steering wheels, and is probably partially responsible for the better feel. VW and Audi owners, used to horrible front drive steering feel, likely do not notice this.
VW owners seem to see value purely in dollars and sense versus features. Porsche buyers have always been different, passion, desire and the cofidence that the company has gone the extra mile in several unseen places to make thier product unique. If you can not see or feel that, it is indeed pointless to spend the extra money. To say it is about a hood badge is ignorant, but I accept the fact that ignorance runs rampant in society these days.
I respect anyone that purchased the Cayenne. I seriously considered one, but 20k (and it is 20k+ comparably equipt) is lot of money. Another member stated, it's a used 911 or 964, I'll take mine out if I want to blow the doors off a Cayenne.......just kidding guys, don't get angery. Plus, I like telling friends I now drive a VW........it's so unlike me~~~
They are both great cars (SUV's) The VWT just made more sense for me and my needs and I'm very happy the the local service.
02-21-2004, 11:37 PM
#50
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Without VW there would be no Cayenne. PAG didn't have the money or the manufacturing facility. VW bought the Skoda plant and all the relationships. These guys are building a pretty good car with German oversight.
02-22-2004, 01:23 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Tierraman,
I really didn't mean any offense, and certainly nothing personal. I am tired of the comparison though. Although you did not do it, it is very common for Treg owners to call Cayenn owners crazy for spending the extra dough.
My point is, there is a big difference. If you, or anybody else has trouble discerning the differences, then yes, you would be crazy to spend the extra money. I drove a V8 Treg for two days on my home turf, I had a Cayenne S for a week, I voted with my checkbook. And yes I could have bought another 928, or 911 for the difference in price. That is not what I wanted though.
I would be happy to meet you in northern NM this summer. I will be moved into my new place in Ouray Co by then. That only puts about 5-6 hrs of deserted winding roads between us
I really didn't mean any offense, and certainly nothing personal. I am tired of the comparison though. Although you did not do it, it is very common for Treg owners to call Cayenn owners crazy for spending the extra dough.
My point is, there is a big difference. If you, or anybody else has trouble discerning the differences, then yes, you would be crazy to spend the extra money. I drove a V8 Treg for two days on my home turf, I had a Cayenne S for a week, I voted with my checkbook. And yes I could have bought another 928, or 911 for the difference in price. That is not what I wanted though.
I would be happy to meet you in northern NM this summer. I will be moved into my new place in Ouray Co by then. That only puts about 5-6 hrs of deserted winding roads between us
02-22-2004, 04:42 PM
#52
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Damn it's hard to make up my mind! If I figure spreading the price difference over 4-6 years I have to think I'm leaning towards the pepper. I don't want to have the T-reg for a couple months and then wish I'd gone for the Porsche! And with VW's sales and service problems right now the resale for the pepper should be a lot better. The T-reg is a great vehicle but the steering feel, etc. is better with the pepper and actually the interior on the T-reg is almost too fancy- I really don't want all the wood crap anyway and they don't have an aluminum look option...leaning towards the pepper now, will make up mind by the end of the week!
02-22-2004, 05:04 PM
#53
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Originally posted by skl
Damn it's hard to make up my mind! If I figure spreading the price difference over 4-6 years I have to think I'm leaning towards the pepper. I don't want to have the T-reg for a couple months and then wish I'd gone for the Porsche! And with VW's sales and service problems right now the resale for the pepper should be a lot better. The T-reg is a great vehicle but the steering feel, etc. is better with the pepper and actually the interior on the T-reg is almost too fancy- I really don't want all the wood crap anyway and they don't have an aluminum look option...leaning towards the pepper now, will make up mind by the end of the week!
Damn it's hard to make up my mind! If I figure spreading the price difference over 4-6 years I have to think I'm leaning towards the pepper. I don't want to have the T-reg for a couple months and then wish I'd gone for the Porsche! And with VW's sales and service problems right now the resale for the pepper should be a lot better. The T-reg is a great vehicle but the steering feel, etc. is better with the pepper and actually the interior on the T-reg is almost too fancy- I really don't want all the wood crap anyway and they don't have an aluminum look option...leaning towards the pepper now, will make up mind by the end of the week!
If you DON'T have a lead foot, go Treg.........
Good luck...
02-22-2004, 05:15 PM
#54
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My lead foot applies to drives in the GT3 (hopefully I won't end up in jail!). I'm leaning towards the pepper as my heart does gravitate towards Stuttgart (even though it's made in Leipzig!)
02-22-2004, 08:43 PM
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Originally posted by skl
My lead foot applies to drives in the GT3 (hopefully I won't end up in jail!). I'm leaning towards the pepper as my heart does gravitate towards Stuttgart (even though it's made in Leipzig!)
My lead foot applies to drives in the GT3 (hopefully I won't end up in jail!). I'm leaning towards the pepper as my heart does gravitate towards Stuttgart (even though it's made in Leipzig!)
02-23-2004, 12:15 AM
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Sorry Guys, I have to defend the Touareg one more time here and I do really like the Cayenne. Although this is a Porcshe site some readers on the fence may need more technical inforamtion, rather than emoitional. 
There is a 17% pound / horsepower difference (vw weighs 350lbs more)
There is a 10% pound / FP of tourque difference
CS puts out 1.75 horsepower per liter more than the VW
CS is .4 seconds faster 0-60
The CS is 1.6 mph faster in the 800 slalom
There is a .04 g force difference in the 200 skidpad
Also, keep in mind that the Audi 4.2 is de-tuned in the VW. The A8's natural power is vurtually the same as the CS with less liters..... Give the VW better tires and a computer tweek, the difference is even less.
I hardly call these significant differences as stated so often in this forum. There is a much more significant difference between the CayenneS and the TT.
This forum mainly compares on-road performance, but there is so much more to these luxury SUV's. If perfomance is the only consideration, then you should look at the Infinity FX45.....
VW scored a ten on cabin design and comfort... WV over SC (my opinion)
VW also scores better in off road technology with hill decent; hill stance and locking differentials. I think the max ground clearance may be a fraction higher as well....don't know.
If your looking for performance only, I understand the dicission to buy a Porsche. If your looking for performance, price, luxury, and one of the world best offraod vehicles, the VW is a good choice as well. It will be interesting to see if the CS will be valued 20K higher than the VW as they depriciate. Time will tell....
That's my 50 cents....Brent, I'll meet you in Durango when you move to CO. Should I bring the VW or Porsche?
There is a 17% pound / horsepower difference (vw weighs 350lbs more)
There is a 10% pound / FP of tourque difference
CS puts out 1.75 horsepower per liter more than the VW
CS is .4 seconds faster 0-60
The CS is 1.6 mph faster in the 800 slalom
There is a .04 g force difference in the 200 skidpad
Also, keep in mind that the Audi 4.2 is de-tuned in the VW. The A8's natural power is vurtually the same as the CS with less liters..... Give the VW better tires and a computer tweek, the difference is even less.
I hardly call these significant differences as stated so often in this forum. There is a much more significant difference between the CayenneS and the TT.
This forum mainly compares on-road performance, but there is so much more to these luxury SUV's. If perfomance is the only consideration, then you should look at the Infinity FX45.....
VW scored a ten on cabin design and comfort... WV over SC (my opinion)
VW also scores better in off road technology with hill decent; hill stance and locking differentials. I think the max ground clearance may be a fraction higher as well....don't know.
If your looking for performance only, I understand the dicission to buy a Porsche. If your looking for performance, price, luxury, and one of the world best offraod vehicles, the VW is a good choice as well. It will be interesting to see if the CS will be valued 20K higher than the VW as they depriciate. Time will tell....
That's my 50 cents....Brent, I'll meet you in Durango when you move to CO. Should I bring the VW or Porsche?
02-23-2004, 04:27 AM
#57
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Originally posted by Toby Pennycuff
Unknown Porsche V8 reliability??? My guess is that many, many 928 owners would likely vehemently challenge you on your assertion of question reliability. The water-cooled V8 is not a new and novel concept for Porsche. I seem to recall that the 928 was quite reliable and proved the critics wrong about Porsche and its ability to engineer and produce water-cooled V8 engine technology.
Unknown Porsche V8 reliability???
My guess is that many, many 928 owners would likely vehemently challenge you on your assertion of question reliability. The water-cooled V8 is not a new and novel concept for Porsche. I seem to recall that the 928 was quite reliable and proved the critics wrong about Porsche and its ability to engineer and produce water-cooled V8 engine technology.
Old Carrera motors can go 300,000 miles without overhauls, yet countless flat-6 Boxster and 996 motors have been replaced, and are still blowing rear main seals...so it's really not possible predict future reliability on past success, even if the configuration of the motor is the same.
IMO, development and testing to a Porsche standard would've revealed the current flat-6's weaknesses. I hope the Cayenne V8 hasn't been released half-baked as well...
02-23-2004, 08:19 AM
#58
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Enough already
I think the debate will never end, each should go "drive" the others favorite and then decide which is best for "them" otherwise we will end up with a post full of "magazine" test results.
The only thing that matters is what you want not what anyone else wants, we (the xxxxx owners and the yyyyy owners) know the other party is wrong, but its not a hanging offence !
I think the debate will never end, each should go "drive" the others favorite and then decide which is best for "them" otherwise we will end up with a post full of "magazine" test results.
The only thing that matters is what you want not what anyone else wants, we (the xxxxx owners and the yyyyy owners) know the other party is wrong, but its not a hanging offence !
02-23-2004, 10:10 AM
#59
Burning Brakes
Joe,
You are opening a can of worms if you want to go for performance numbers only and take out the emotion. What made you buy a 996 cab? I KNOW you could have saved $20k, probably gotten better performance by buying a Corvette convertible
It also comes down to needs, wants, and even the ability to write the check. I am replacing a BMW 750iL, fast, smooth, great handling car. The Cayenne will be my wifes driver. Anything replacing the BMW had to have some power, some alluring engine sounds, excellent handling, and be a little more exclusive than a VW (sorry!). The Treg does all of the workhorse stuff perfectly. I don't think that anybody who has honestly evaluated both can say that the Cayenne doesn't posess more passion. That is the difference, and it certainly isn't tangible enough for many, but to deny it is there is a mistake.
As for off-road prowess, niether rig meets my needs. Calling the Treg "one of the worlds best" for off-roading is certainly up for debate. I own two older G-class trucks and an MB Unimog for when I want to off-road. These leave something like the Treg for the buzzards off road. Either truck will take most people, most of the places they want to go. The Treg comes stock with a few more goodies that apply to off-roading but it is more semantics than a true useable advantage. Niether is suitable for much more than rough gravel and the occasional obstacle in my book. It is all a matter of degrees here.
Lets meet in Durango with Porsches(not the truck)! I have three curvy mountain passes between my place and Durango.
You are opening a can of worms if you want to go for performance numbers only and take out the emotion. What made you buy a 996 cab? I KNOW you could have saved $20k, probably gotten better performance by buying a Corvette convertible
It also comes down to needs, wants, and even the ability to write the check. I am replacing a BMW 750iL, fast, smooth, great handling car. The Cayenne will be my wifes driver. Anything replacing the BMW had to have some power, some alluring engine sounds, excellent handling, and be a little more exclusive than a VW (sorry!). The Treg does all of the workhorse stuff perfectly. I don't think that anybody who has honestly evaluated both can say that the Cayenne doesn't posess more passion. That is the difference, and it certainly isn't tangible enough for many, but to deny it is there is a mistake.
As for off-road prowess, niether rig meets my needs. Calling the Treg "one of the worlds best" for off-roading is certainly up for debate. I own two older G-class trucks and an MB Unimog for when I want to off-road. These leave something like the Treg for the buzzards off road. Either truck will take most people, most of the places they want to go. The Treg comes stock with a few more goodies that apply to off-roading but it is more semantics than a true useable advantage. Niether is suitable for much more than rough gravel and the occasional obstacle in my book. It is all a matter of degrees here.
Lets meet in Durango with Porsches(not the truck)! I have three curvy mountain passes between my place and Durango.
02-23-2004, 11:42 AM
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While I have mentioned before, my wife and I have a year to decide what we want in an SUV. First the XC90 was 'it'. Great solid feel, good power, safe, tight chassis etc. Then the Cayenne and Touareg came about (and now the FX).
This has got us really confused. Many many people have expressed their opinions to me about liking the interior and exterior of the Touareg better than the Cayenne. For some reason I dont know, I think the opposite. I like the int and ext of the Cayenne. Always have from the beginning really.
Technically, the T and the C are cutting edge, IMHO. For me, the local dealer network is a huge part of the decision. How will we be treated at the VW dealers (I know from past bad experiences with McKenna VW) vs. Porsche?
This has got us really confused. Many many people have expressed their opinions to me about liking the interior and exterior of the Touareg better than the Cayenne. For some reason I dont know, I think the opposite. I like the int and ext of the Cayenne. Always have from the beginning really.
Technically, the T and the C are cutting edge, IMHO. For me, the local dealer network is a huge part of the decision. How will we be treated at the VW dealers (I know from past bad experiences with McKenna VW) vs. Porsche?