Doug H

Old guy. Make her drive it. That's how I got my Cayenne . . . I mean my wife got her Cayenne.

nova996

I've been looking at this issue also, Cayenne S versus Touareg.

That new diesel V10 (which is coming here to the US next month) is a very interesting engine. Our dealer is saying a fully loaded V10 TDI should be about $55k.

You can't go wrong with 550 lb/ft of torque.

Torags

While that may be true, an issue to resolve is the fuel. My inderstanding is, the US uses a poorer quality diesel fuel than Europe. Will it foul plugs?...

I don't think it passed California emissions tests yet.

Pwilliams

Torags:

Diesels do not use plugs. Their fuel ignites by heat resulting from compression.

skl

I've heard the same thing about our high sulfur diesel fuel- didn't think they could bring the high-tech diesels here until we got better fuel. No body on the VW forums seems to know about this though...

Torags

Oops... I forgot. After owning a 77 300D and a 82 300SD; I should know better..

inactiveuser92616

as far as I know, the difference in diesel fuel quality Euro->US only manifests as emissions, and temp/age stability of the fuel. The US has higher sulfur content, hence the stench of diesel engines. The diesel grade that the US uses for commercial vehicles (lower quality than at a normal US station) gels in the cold.

JeffES

While emissions is a part of LSD vs HSD, the real problem is the sulfur itself. HSD engines rely on sulfur compounds to enhance lubrication and low temp operation. LSD motors will generally (not always) build up some pretty serious internal deposits when using HSD. There are some workarounds, but there just isn't any good long term data on HSD use in LSD motors. There's a good deal of research going on right now - but VW would be gambling on long term warranty/repair/ownership costs if they released the current eurospec motor.
J
PS - this is somewhat analogous to the "lead" vs "unleaded" issue for gas motors.

Torags

Interesting... good post JeffES. Thanks....

spockcat

Interesting how this changed into a diesel thread. The base MSRP on the V10 is going to be a bit over $57k. It will come with many options as standard. A well loaded one will be about $63k.

I compared the Touareg V8 with PPS package to an equally equipped Cayenne S using the Porsche car configurator and the VW configurator. The Touareg was $48,615. The Cayenne S was over $74k. Since that time, VW has raised the price on the Touareg V8 by about $1500. So the difference now is about $24k. You could buy a pretty nice used 911 or Boxster for that much money.

Torags

I think everybody recognizes the difference in value between the two trucks.

I think the real issue is how much people are willing to pay for added value. To most; especially the practical - added value is minimalized. To some - they're willing to pay more (sometimes a lot more), for just a little change, rarity, etc..

I'm in added value real estate and I'm constantly amazed at how much some are willing to pay for just a little more or a different style.

No right or wrong, just the way it is, IMO.....

spockcat

Frankly, I had never done this comparision before. I was mainly taking everyone's word about it being $10k to $15k. I think $24k is a bit more startling. That's why I wanted to add it to this discussion.

Now when the V10 becomes available in the US (should be very soon now), that will carry a much greater margin/markup. But power-wise, it will have to be compared to the Cayenne TT, not the Cayenne S.

Torags

In my case the difference was $7K+. I don't like a lot of fru-fru in my cars that might break so I got a lightly optioned S (I gave back fancy 19s for 18s w M&S). I buy trucks for what I need and most of the time I have to take options I don't want. History justified my choice when following threads on comfort pak, tire moniters, Nav, etc.

At that time (8/03) P dealers were discounting & VW dealers weren't. I preferred buying the Treg because of the price. I'm glad I didn't because the cost of the aggrevation of dealing with VW dealers was too high.

After I got oriented (initially left the doors open when working) to the truck, it starts everyday and I have had no problems. I got the S for utilitarian reasons (towing mostly & handling); the unexpected benefit, is that it's fun to drive and it has exceeded my expectations.

That said, the Treg is a good value...

krisko

I disagree with the comment earlier that the Vortex Touareg board is nothing but Cayenne bashing, we also bash the X5 (just kidding). There are certainly Touareg vs. Cayenne threads there, but we keep it positive albeit VW biased.

There are a few serious upgrades when choosing a Cayenne over the Touareg. The most important being the crest and the prestige and service that comes along with it. Second would be the steering feel, more responsive while the Touaregs is a little number in the luxury car tradition. Third would be resale value, that isn't a question in my mind.

Having said that, the $24,000 price difference when comparably equipped is a compelling argument for the VW.

rockitman

Ahhh, aren't you forgetting something??? Perhaps the Porsche 4.5 Litre V8??? That is a serious upgrade over the VW, IMO....
6 Piston Brembo front brakes also comes to mind...