Deleting Secondary Air Injection (SAI)
07-21-2017, 01:45 PM
#2
You definitely don't want to do this "blind"--with all the monitoring and computer control of these engines, there could be repurcussions through the emissions control systems if this is done without knowing the potential issues. For example, turning off the SAI could make the exhaust temperature higher or lower affecting the performance of the catalytic converters and/or oxygen sensors. Or it could be done without any repurcussions at all... only someone with knowledge of the entire engine control system (from intake to exhaust tips) would know whether this is "safe" or not.
07-21-2017, 04:20 PM
#4
You will have to make your own block off plates and if you do not want a check engine light you will have to have it coded out in the ecu. Be aware that readiness monitor for the sai will not show as ready in either case. Check your local emissions laws. IMO, there are no performance or reliability repercussions.
07-22-2017, 06:19 AM
#5
The are several reasons I want to do this:
1) AFAICT, these don't do anything at all except for the first 60 seconds after a cold start. I can live with the catalytic converters taking an extra minute or so to reach the operating temperature, and by the time the cats warm up my fuelling has already switched over the LPG.
2) Engine bay clutter. They are one of the reasons why, for example, cam position sensors are so difficult to reach. More moving parts, more electrical components, more air hoses to perish and leak, all for at best questionable benefit.
3) IIRC, from about a year ago, these are on the same 5A fuse as the auxiliary water pump and the brake booster. So when a SAI pump fails short or starts to sieze up and draw too much current, you end up with a "Brake Booster Failure" warning on the dashboard. This then results in hours of chasing one's tail for those uninitiated in the insanity of the setup, looking for the problem in the wrong place.
Regarding the CEL, I guess I could start by just unplugging them and see if it comes up. IME on the CT, the engine has to be running _very_ poorly for the CEL to come on. I had a duff cam position sensor recently which made the engine misfire all over the place on 4 of the cylinders, and even that didn't trigger the CEL except when it was hunting between 400 and 1100 rpm at idle.
1) AFAICT, these don't do anything at all except for the first 60 seconds after a cold start. I can live with the catalytic converters taking an extra minute or so to reach the operating temperature, and by the time the cats warm up my fuelling has already switched over the LPG.
2) Engine bay clutter. They are one of the reasons why, for example, cam position sensors are so difficult to reach. More moving parts, more electrical components, more air hoses to perish and leak, all for at best questionable benefit.
3) IIRC, from about a year ago, these are on the same 5A fuse as the auxiliary water pump and the brake booster. So when a SAI pump fails short or starts to sieze up and draw too much current, you end up with a "Brake Booster Failure" warning on the dashboard. This then results in hours of chasing one's tail for those uninitiated in the insanity of the setup, looking for the problem in the wrong place.
Regarding the CEL, I guess I could start by just unplugging them and see if it comes up. IME on the CT, the engine has to be running _very_ poorly for the CEL to come on. I had a duff cam position sensor recently which made the engine misfire all over the place on 4 of the cylinders, and even that didn't trigger the CEL except when it was hunting between 400 and 1100 rpm at idle.
07-22-2017, 05:29 PM
#6
The are several reasons I want to do this:
1) AFAICT, these don't do anything at all except for the first 60 seconds after a cold start. I can live with the catalytic converters taking an extra minute or so to reach the operating temperature, and by the time the cats warm up my fuelling has already switched over the LPG.
2) Engine bay clutter. They are one of the reasons why, for example, cam position sensors are so difficult to reach. More moving parts, more electrical components, more air hoses to perish and leak, all for at best questionable benefit.
3) IIRC, from about a year ago, these are on the same 5A fuse as the auxiliary water pump and the brake booster. So when a SAI pump fails short or starts to sieze up and draw too much current, you end up with a "Brake Booster Failure" warning on the dashboard. This then results in hours of chasing one's tail for those uninitiated in the insanity of the setup, looking for the problem in the wrong place.
Regarding the CEL, I guess I could start by just unplugging them and see if it comes up. IME on the CT, the engine has to be running _very_ poorly for the CEL to come on. I had a duff cam position sensor recently which made the engine misfire all over the place on 4 of the cylinders, and even that didn't trigger the CEL except when it was hunting between 400 and 1100 rpm at idle.
1) AFAICT, these don't do anything at all except for the first 60 seconds after a cold start. I can live with the catalytic converters taking an extra minute or so to reach the operating temperature, and by the time the cats warm up my fuelling has already switched over the LPG.
2) Engine bay clutter. They are one of the reasons why, for example, cam position sensors are so difficult to reach. More moving parts, more electrical components, more air hoses to perish and leak, all for at best questionable benefit.
3) IIRC, from about a year ago, these are on the same 5A fuse as the auxiliary water pump and the brake booster. So when a SAI pump fails short or starts to sieze up and draw too much current, you end up with a "Brake Booster Failure" warning on the dashboard. This then results in hours of chasing one's tail for those uninitiated in the insanity of the setup, looking for the problem in the wrong place.
Regarding the CEL, I guess I could start by just unplugging them and see if it comes up. IME on the CT, the engine has to be running _very_ poorly for the CEL to come on. I had a duff cam position sensor recently which made the engine misfire all over the place on 4 of the cylinders, and even that didn't trigger the CEL except when it was hunting between 400 and 1100 rpm at idle.
You will get a check engine light and it won't be right away.
If your egr valves are sealing up tight you don't need block off plates.
07-23-2017, 02:57 AM
#7
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05-28-2018, 07:38 PM
#8
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IT’S BEEN DONE MANY TIMES
Agreed but as usual we have the non-experts complicating things and causing panic. Yes your Porsche most likely has O2 sensors both upstream and downstream of the cat, but so what????
To successfully do a secondary air delete on a Porsche all you have to do is follow this THREE STEP PROCESS.
Step 1: Remove all secondary air components seen in this diagram:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...1&d=1380626070
Step 2: Use appropriate blockoff plates (this link is for 987 Cayman, Boxster, and 997 Carrera models, but you get the idea): https://m.ebay.com/itm/987-997-Porsche-911-Spec-Cayman-Secondary-Air-Injection-SAI-Block-Off-Plates/173307871619
Step 3: Take it to your local performance/tuning shop and have them tune out all the OBD stuff for the secondary air system. Tuning out the OBD error codes isn’t enough, so don’t forget to also tell them to tune the ECU to pass the readiness test for emissions.
And that’s it!
To successfully do a secondary air delete on a Porsche all you have to do is follow this THREE STEP PROCESS.
Step 1: Remove all secondary air components seen in this diagram:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...1&d=1380626070
Step 2: Use appropriate blockoff plates (this link is for 987 Cayman, Boxster, and 997 Carrera models, but you get the idea): https://m.ebay.com/itm/987-997-Porsche-911-Spec-Cayman-Secondary-Air-Injection-SAI-Block-Off-Plates/173307871619
Step 3: Take it to your local performance/tuning shop and have them tune out all the OBD stuff for the secondary air system. Tuning out the OBD error codes isn’t enough, so don’t forget to also tell them to tune the ECU to pass the readiness test for emissions.
And that’s it!
Last edited by Medswami; 05-28-2018 at 07:57 PM. Reason: Missed a word
05-29-2018, 10:13 PM
#9
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Agreed but as usual we have the non-experts complicating things and causing panic. Yes your Porsche most likely has O2 sensors both upstream and downstream of the cat, but so what????
To successfully do a secondary air delete on a Porsche all you have to do is follow this THREE STEP PROCESS.
Step 1: Remove all secondary air components seen in this diagram:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...1&d=1380626070
Step 2: Use appropriate blockoff plates (this link is for 987 Cayman, Boxster, and 997 Carrera models, but you get the idea): https://m.ebay.com/itm/987-997-Porsche-911-Spec-Cayman-Secondary-Air-Injection-SAI-Block-Off-Plates/173307871619
Step 3: Take it to your local performance/tuning shop and have them tune out all the OBD stuff for the secondary air system. Tuning out the OBD error codes isn’t enough, so don’t forget to also tell them to tune the ECU to pass the readiness test for emissions.
And that’s it!
To successfully do a secondary air delete on a Porsche all you have to do is follow this THREE STEP PROCESS.
Step 1: Remove all secondary air components seen in this diagram:
https://www.6speedonline.com/forums/...1&d=1380626070
Step 2: Use appropriate blockoff plates (this link is for 987 Cayman, Boxster, and 997 Carrera models, but you get the idea): https://m.ebay.com/itm/987-997-Porsche-911-Spec-Cayman-Secondary-Air-Injection-SAI-Block-Off-Plates/173307871619
Step 3: Take it to your local performance/tuning shop and have them tune out all the OBD stuff for the secondary air system. Tuning out the OBD error codes isn’t enough, so don’t forget to also tell them to tune the ECU to pass the readiness test for emissions.
And that’s it!
05-31-2018, 08:20 PM
#10
Three Wheelin'
You'll get these codes:
P0492: Secondary Air Injection System Bank 2 - Value below lower limit value, test conditions are not-completed, fault is currently active and causing a DTC light
P0491: Secondary Air Injection System Bank 1 - Value below lower limit value, test conditions are not-completed, fault is currently active and causing a DTC light
I just removed the pumps and left the valves as the diagram posted above shows it is a whole manifold on the back of the engine you will have to remove. I have a Eurocharged tune and finally had them do a custom tune to code them out. I've never run the readiness tests to see if they are coded right as I don't need to do emissions where I license.
P0492: Secondary Air Injection System Bank 2 - Value below lower limit value, test conditions are not-completed, fault is currently active and causing a DTC light
P0491: Secondary Air Injection System Bank 1 - Value below lower limit value, test conditions are not-completed, fault is currently active and causing a DTC light
I just removed the pumps and left the valves as the diagram posted above shows it is a whole manifold on the back of the engine you will have to remove. I have a Eurocharged tune and finally had them do a custom tune to code them out. I've never run the readiness tests to see if they are coded right as I don't need to do emissions where I license.