Advice on Boxster S Purchase
03-17-2016, 01:31 PM
#1
Cruisin'
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Advice on Boxster S Purchase
I'm about to buy a 2001 Boxster S.
I'm looking for opinions on these two:
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5454107397.html
Private Seller
-I've seen in person, very clean
-Low options as far as I can tell
-2 owners ( I'd be the third)
-IMS retrofit LN sticker, new RMS, recent clutch, 60k service done
-speed yellow was stunning color in person, pictures don't do it justice
http://www.porschewest.com/bargain/P...6ad3064c83.htm
-At a dealership, spoke to salesman who assures me its in great condition
-Has a hardtop
-heated and power seats
-unsure on maintenance, salesman is checking
-1 owner carfax
Looking for thoughts and opinions on what to look for and which way people think is best.
Any benefit to buying from a dealer?
I'm looking for opinions on these two:
http://houston.craigslist.org/cto/5454107397.html
Private Seller
-I've seen in person, very clean
-Low options as far as I can tell
-2 owners ( I'd be the third)
-IMS retrofit LN sticker, new RMS, recent clutch, 60k service done
-speed yellow was stunning color in person, pictures don't do it justice
http://www.porschewest.com/bargain/P...6ad3064c83.htm
-At a dealership, spoke to salesman who assures me its in great condition
-Has a hardtop
-heated and power seats
-unsure on maintenance, salesman is checking
-1 owner carfax
Looking for thoughts and opinions on what to look for and which way people think is best.
Any benefit to buying from a dealer?
03-17-2016, 01:51 PM
#2
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"-IMS retrofit LN sticker, new RMS, recent clutch, 60k service done"
That line item alone is a HUGE value add. For a used Boxster (or any car with M96/M97 engine), those parts should be addressed. It looks to be priced into the sale price, but only about half of what it would actually cost you to have it done, unless you planned on doing those yourself.
"-At a dealership, spoke to salesman who assures me its in great condition"
Nothing against said salesperson or dealership, but that point really holds zero value.
Take the following advice with a grain of salt...YMMV:
I much prefer purchasing cars from private sellers. You can usually get a lot more background and transparency on the car's history from them - how knowledgeable they are about the car, how well they cared for it, etc. Oftentimes, buying from a used dealer (Porsche dealership, or not), chances are they saw that car for the first time in their lives 1 week prior and may have little to no background on the car. They're trying to sell you on a car. And honestly most of "pre-inspection checklist" are not very substantial - mostly a quick visual and topping off of fluids.
Regardless of who you purchase from, a 3rd party PPI with an experienced Porsche mechanic is always a good idea. These cars are wonderful...but they can quickly turn into money pits if you get a bad apple.
That line item alone is a HUGE value add. For a used Boxster (or any car with M96/M97 engine), those parts should be addressed. It looks to be priced into the sale price, but only about half of what it would actually cost you to have it done, unless you planned on doing those yourself.
"-At a dealership, spoke to salesman who assures me its in great condition"
Nothing against said salesperson or dealership, but that point really holds zero value.
Take the following advice with a grain of salt...YMMV:
I much prefer purchasing cars from private sellers. You can usually get a lot more background and transparency on the car's history from them - how knowledgeable they are about the car, how well they cared for it, etc. Oftentimes, buying from a used dealer (Porsche dealership, or not), chances are they saw that car for the first time in their lives 1 week prior and may have little to no background on the car. They're trying to sell you on a car. And honestly most of "pre-inspection checklist" are not very substantial - mostly a quick visual and topping off of fluids.
Regardless of who you purchase from, a 3rd party PPI with an experienced Porsche mechanic is always a good idea. These cars are wonderful...but they can quickly turn into money pits if you get a bad apple.
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03-17-2016, 01:55 PM
#3
Cruisin'
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You wrote down the words that were already in my head.
I knew with most at most dealers I'm familiar with, the "inspection" isn't worth the paper its printed on. They don't even look too hard at "certified" cars, just write the check and pass it on.
However I wasn't sure with Porsche if it was more extensive. I had heard good things about their service depts.
I agree about talking to the owner. The seller of the yellow one has had it for about 10k and dumped some $$$ into preventative maintenance.
I had only spoken on the phone about the one at the dealer and, at this point, I'm not even sure its worth driving 30 miles to take a look at the dealer one.
I knew with most at most dealers I'm familiar with, the "inspection" isn't worth the paper its printed on. They don't even look too hard at "certified" cars, just write the check and pass it on.
However I wasn't sure with Porsche if it was more extensive. I had heard good things about their service depts.
I agree about talking to the owner. The seller of the yellow one has had it for about 10k and dumped some $$$ into preventative maintenance.
I had only spoken on the phone about the one at the dealer and, at this point, I'm not even sure its worth driving 30 miles to take a look at the dealer one.
03-17-2016, 02:02 PM
#4
Agree with above. Get a PPI to be able to fully check under the car- for things like CV boots, motor/trans mounts, any signs of leaks, etc. (I've used EuroCar Werk on Gulfton a couple of times). Also run a carfax for possible accidents. (Carfax is not 100% but I usually check it) I was at PWest earlier in the week and walked around the silver car. Looked ok visually. Hardtop is a nice add but would need to remove it to check the condition of the soft top including the plastic rear window. Only advantage I can see to a dealer transaction is they'll handle the title/reg/licence plate admin stuff. For private party you have to run around and do that yourself- not a big deal.
03-17-2016, 02:17 PM
#5
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Agree with above. Get a PPI to be able to fully check under the car- for things like CV boots, motor/trans mounts, any signs of leaks, etc. (I've used EuroCar Werk on Gulfton a couple of times). Also run a carfax for possible accidents. (Carfax is not 100% but I usually check it) I was at PWest earlier in the week and walked around the silver car. Looked ok visually. Hardtop is a nice add but would need to remove it to check the condition of the soft top including the plastic rear window. Only advantage I can see to a dealer transaction is they'll handle the title/reg/licence plate admin stuff. For private party you have to run around and do that yourself- not a big deal.
The fact that you've seen the car in person and weren't overly impressed with the condition of the silver one says a lot. The yellow one was definitely impressive and obviously garage kept.
The silver one's carfax indicates an owner that either didn't have time or desire to drive it the first 6 years of ownership (less than 1000 miles year year) and then suddenly started driving it 10k miles per year, then parked it again for the last 2 years.
No advantage to the dealer transaction for me. I'd rather handle title transfer myself as its much cheaper and no games.
Last edited by Jed Blanks; 03-17-2016 at 02:42 PM.
03-17-2016, 08:06 PM
#6
That is a tough one. If you are OK with the prices, I would vote for the yellow, private party car. The silver car has more options (memory seats, hardtop - neither is a must have), but they both have Litronic (HID) headlights, which I think are most useful option. It looks like someone stole all the emblems off the silver car's center caps. Those are kind of pricey. The radio display is messed up as well. Unless you drive the car year round, I don't see much advantage to having a hardtop. It would just be something else to store for, as if I wanted to drive a hardtop I would get a Cayman.
The IMS upgrade is definitely a big plus and helps remove one of the biggest clouds over Boxster ownership. I would say both cars are priced on the high end for an '01 S. I would offer 11.5k on the silver car (what I would consider market value), sell the hardtop for $1k, get the IMS done for $2k and count on another $1k or so in maintenance. I have yet to buy a used car, no matter how nice, that didn't need $1k-$2k in odds and ends to bring up to tip top condition.
Just my $.02. YMMV
The IMS upgrade is definitely a big plus and helps remove one of the biggest clouds over Boxster ownership. I would say both cars are priced on the high end for an '01 S. I would offer 11.5k on the silver car (what I would consider market value), sell the hardtop for $1k, get the IMS done for $2k and count on another $1k or so in maintenance. I have yet to buy a used car, no matter how nice, that didn't need $1k-$2k in odds and ends to bring up to tip top condition.
Just my $.02. YMMV
03-18-2016, 12:52 AM
#7
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That is a tough one. If you are OK with the prices, I would vote for the yellow, private party car. The silver car has more options (memory seats, hardtop - neither is a must have), but they both have Litronic (HID) headlights, which I think are most useful option. It looks like someone stole all the emblems off the silver car's center caps. Those are kind of pricey. The radio display is messed up as well. Unless you drive the car year round, I don't see much advantage to having a hardtop. It would just be something else to store for, as if I wanted to drive a hardtop I would get a Cayman.
The IMS upgrade is definitely a big plus and helps remove one of the biggest clouds over Boxster ownership. I would say both cars are priced on the high end for an '01 S. I would offer 11.5k on the silver car (what I would consider market value), sell the hardtop for $1k, get the IMS done for $2k and count on another $1k or so in maintenance. I have yet to buy a used car, no matter how nice, that didn't need $1k-$2k in odds and ends to bring up to tip top condition.
Just my $.02. YMMV
The IMS upgrade is definitely a big plus and helps remove one of the biggest clouds over Boxster ownership. I would say both cars are priced on the high end for an '01 S. I would offer 11.5k on the silver car (what I would consider market value), sell the hardtop for $1k, get the IMS done for $2k and count on another $1k or so in maintenance. I have yet to buy a used car, no matter how nice, that didn't need $1k-$2k in odds and ends to bring up to tip top condition.
Just my $.02. YMMV
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03-18-2016, 11:39 AM
#8
Race Director
You have gotten some good advice.
I can only add in general terms is to when it comes to used cars to buy the best example you can find and afford.
Of the two cars you are considering which is the best/better car?
It kind of reads like the yellow one to me.
Who did the IMSB retro-fit? When?
Have you test driven the yellow car? You need to have the seller take for you a 15 mile ride then you take the car out and drive it over the same 15 mile route.
You must experience the car on the road. All used cars are fine on the driveway. It is on the road you can get some idea of the true condition of the car.
After the test ride/drive then do your own used car checkout. Check everything works.
Ideally you should follow the above then with a PPI to get the car in the air so a close inspection can be made for any signs of problems. Leaks for instance.
Also it is best if the PPI can read the car's DME runtime and over rev counters/time stamps so you can get an idea of how the car was driven. Also, if there might be some odo tampering involved. The engine run time divided into the total miles will give you an average speed. "30" miles an hour is about average.
What you are looking for is a real low average speed. But a low average speed could be a boulevard cruiser. But the car's condition must agree with this. If the carpets are worn, if the pedals are worn, if the brakes are worn or cooked, then this suggests a car that has been used more miles than its odometer is reporting.
If from under the car you spot rubber tire bits on top of the plastic underbody panels, the car's spent its time on the track. The average speed then could be quite a bit above 30mph.
For price my usual advice is to visit the used car pricing sites and run the car's numbers and see what its trade-in/wholesale value is.
That sets the car's base value, provided the car is in reasonable shape/condition.
Then how much you pay for the car depends upon how dear the owner values the car vs. how dear you value your money.
I can only add in general terms is to when it comes to used cars to buy the best example you can find and afford.
Of the two cars you are considering which is the best/better car?
It kind of reads like the yellow one to me.
Who did the IMSB retro-fit? When?
Have you test driven the yellow car? You need to have the seller take for you a 15 mile ride then you take the car out and drive it over the same 15 mile route.
You must experience the car on the road. All used cars are fine on the driveway. It is on the road you can get some idea of the true condition of the car.
After the test ride/drive then do your own used car checkout. Check everything works.
Ideally you should follow the above then with a PPI to get the car in the air so a close inspection can be made for any signs of problems. Leaks for instance.
Also it is best if the PPI can read the car's DME runtime and over rev counters/time stamps so you can get an idea of how the car was driven. Also, if there might be some odo tampering involved. The engine run time divided into the total miles will give you an average speed. "30" miles an hour is about average.
What you are looking for is a real low average speed. But a low average speed could be a boulevard cruiser. But the car's condition must agree with this. If the carpets are worn, if the pedals are worn, if the brakes are worn or cooked, then this suggests a car that has been used more miles than its odometer is reporting.
If from under the car you spot rubber tire bits on top of the plastic underbody panels, the car's spent its time on the track. The average speed then could be quite a bit above 30mph.
For price my usual advice is to visit the used car pricing sites and run the car's numbers and see what its trade-in/wholesale value is.
That sets the car's base value, provided the car is in reasonable shape/condition.
Then how much you pay for the car depends upon how dear the owner values the car vs. how dear you value your money.
03-18-2016, 12:01 PM
#9
Cruisin'
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IMSb was einers at 54k miles (current odometer 58.5k)
Clutch and RMS done at same time.
60k service incl water pump at another shop.
Yellow test drive went as you said. 15 min each. Then another 5 minutes me and the wife for final approval
I'm fairly handy with cars just not familiar with P cars.
The rest of your advice contains invaluable information for me to consider. Thank you for your reply.
The base number I feel is $11.5 ish like above poster said but I feel this car is worth at least $1000 maybe $2000 premium for condition and what it will save me in immediate service costs that would be necessary on and unknown service history car.
Clutch and RMS done at same time.
60k service incl water pump at another shop.
Yellow test drive went as you said. 15 min each. Then another 5 minutes me and the wife for final approval
I'm fairly handy with cars just not familiar with P cars.
The rest of your advice contains invaluable information for me to consider. Thank you for your reply.
The base number I feel is $11.5 ish like above poster said but I feel this car is worth at least $1000 maybe $2000 premium for condition and what it will save me in immediate service costs that would be necessary on and unknown service history car.
03-18-2016, 12:57 PM
#10
Drifting
Replacing the IMSB with an LN part is not very significant imho.
What is invaluable is the pre-qualification checks and correct installation that must happen to stay in the LN rules. That is why it is important to know who did the install and to check they are still on the Approved List with LN.
There are many Posts here about engine problems that started after a sloppy IMSB replacement.
What is invaluable is the pre-qualification checks and correct installation that must happen to stay in the LN rules. That is why it is important to know who did the install and to check they are still on the Approved List with LN.
There are many Posts here about engine problems that started after a sloppy IMSB replacement.
03-18-2016, 01:24 PM
#11
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Replacing the IMSB with an LN part is not very significant imho.
What is invaluable is the pre-qualification checks and correct installation that must happen to stay in the LN rules. That is why it is important to know who did the install and to check they are still on the Approved List with LN.
There are many Posts here about engine problems that started after a sloppy IMSB replacement.
What is invaluable is the pre-qualification checks and correct installation that must happen to stay in the LN rules. That is why it is important to know who did the install and to check they are still on the Approved List with LN.
There are many Posts here about engine problems that started after a sloppy IMSB replacement.
I don't see them on the LN certified list.
They did the dual row ceramic bearing.
Last edited by Jed Blanks; 03-18-2016 at 01:42 PM.
03-18-2016, 05:15 PM
#12
Drifting
Just call LN and check if the Installer is either Certified or just Approved ?
A badly installed LN bearing or one installed without the correct pre-qualification is a time bomb. Same for anyone else's IMSB.
A badly installed LN bearing or one installed without the correct pre-qualification is a time bomb. Same for anyone else's IMSB.
03-18-2016, 06:04 PM
#13
Race Director
IMSb was einers at 54k miles (current odometer 58.5k)
Clutch and RMS done at same time.
60k service incl water pump at another shop.
Yellow test drive went as you said. 15 min each. Then another 5 minutes me and the wife for final approval
I'm fairly handy with cars just not familiar with P cars.
The rest of your advice contains invaluable information for me to consider. Thank you for your reply.
The base number I feel is $11.5 ish like above poster said but I feel this car is worth at least $1000 maybe $2000 premium for condition and what it will save me in immediate service costs that would be necessary on and unknown service history car.
Clutch and RMS done at same time.
60k service incl water pump at another shop.
Yellow test drive went as you said. 15 min each. Then another 5 minutes me and the wife for final approval
I'm fairly handy with cars just not familiar with P cars.
The rest of your advice contains invaluable information for me to consider. Thank you for your reply.
The base number I feel is $11.5 ish like above poster said but I feel this car is worth at least $1000 maybe $2000 premium for condition and what it will save me in immediate service costs that would be necessary on and unknown service history car.
But of course I have to stress you must be sure the car is worth owning.
BTW, I did a google search on the car's VIN. Seems it was up for auction (and sold) back on April 14, 2014. I can find no info on its mileage at the time or price asked or price paid.
Here's the web link:
https://www.vininspect.com/en/check-...c06a7&ch=code4
03-19-2016, 01:08 AM
#15
Cruisin'
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