Thegman

In the last few weeks I have become aware from several independent sources of a scheme where certain Porsche dealers are defrauding new car customers. Here is how the scheme works:

An unsuspecting customer buys a new car from a Porsche dealer. The dealer, unbeknownst to the customer, has reported the car "sold" at an earlier date to PCNA to inflate sales figures and has "punched" the warrantee. So the 4 year/50K mile warrantee starts running once the warrantee is punched. There is no disclosure from the dealer as to this practice and nothing is written on the customer invoice to advise the customer as to the practice.

If the customer doesn't catch the fraud, they are left with a reduced warrantee period. Interestingly, the EPA Emissions Warranty also starts with the "punch" and I'm not sure if the EPA would get the joke.

So the new Porsche owner learns he will not be receiving a 4 year warranty when he brings the car to a dealer for routine maintenance (or a catastrophic failure) and the dealer’s service invoice reflects the actual "Warranty Expiration Date." I'm sure many owners never even notice, till something breaks like a rear main seal or an intermediate shaft bearing. Then the customer is left holding the bag.

I encourage the Rennlist readers who have purchased new cars within the last 4 years to determine if they received a full four year warranty. Here is how to check:

1. Find your new car purchase invoice from your Porsche dealer and find the “Sale date.”

2. Review any service invoice received from a Porsche dealer. The “Warranty Expiration Date” is reflected on it near the top of the form.

3. If the Warranty Expiration Date is less than four years from the Sale Date, you have been the victim of a fraud scheme. Unless the dealer disclosed the shorter warranty period at the time of purchase.

If you believe you have been victimized, send me a personal message with your contact information.

SeanR

That wouldn't hold up ever. Bill of sale and purchase paperwork would negate them even trying this. I'm going to call this a hoax.

Mighty Shilling

Not to mention, what does the dealer gain from this? working for a dealer, Warranty work still pays, and will always pay the bills. What good would the dealer gain from shortening their free ride?

flatsixforme

I'm not sure how different car manufacturers do it for new cars but it is pretty standard practice in the CPO used car market for the CPO warranty to start from the "in service" date which is essentially the moment the car was delivered to the first dealer when new. I wonder if these Porsche dealers have some fine print somewhere talking about the warranty and the "in service" date of the car.

42empress

In service date is the date it was either sold or put in service as a loaner. Not date it was delivered to dealership. It may be used as a loaner and not titled, but still inservice. If it is just sitting on a lot, brand new and not being used, it is not inservice yet. I am saying that this is legit. The point is that not that dealers don't benefit from shortening warranty, but that they DO benefit from showing more cars sold. I would put money on this as being true.

Thegman

That is exactly it! They want the end of month sales numbers so they can report them to PCNA. Porsche provides inventory (new cars) based on sales. So the dealer stiffs a customer so they get more cars. If they disclosed it to the customer, the customer would likely want a discount or some free Porsche bling. So they defraud the customer to help themselves. "Hold Water?" I think so.....

Bob Rouleau

G-man,
What is your intent here? You have posted your request on a lot of forums in sceaming caps. Are you a lawyer looking for a class action suit to pursue?

The warranty starts with delivery unless the car is a demo or used car. Please read the warranty wording in your own manual. If a dealer sells a used/demo car as new without disclosing same then you might have a case. In all but the oddest cases, the dealer will be required to make warranty repairs by PCNA.

You need to consider whether harm has been done. If the warranty ends two months short of the 4 years (for example) post the "in service" date and no claim is required, where is the damage?

Regards,

gfl

The dealer acknowledged it up front and - all take note - bought at its own expense a warranty extension. The dealer does this for a reason - hitting certain sales targets gets them marketing dollars and allocation for future models. So they lie to PCNA and their financers.

Not sure what would normally hold up in court, but note that they paid quite a tidy sum to give me in effect 5 years coverage rather than 3. They m=punched mine a year ahead.

Grant

Dan Jacobs

Was common practice when I worked for Porsche dealers

Devildog2067

This has been happening at car dealerships since the beginning of time. At the same time it's not "common" by any means.

"Punching" a car (or RDR) will get you paid by the manufacturer, but by the same token once you report the car sold they stop paying your floorplan for you and there are some accounting tricks you have to do.

You can inservice a car as a service loaner sometimes, but usually you have a limit on how many cars per year you're allowed to do that on.

I would have thought car guys would check the warranty start date when they buy the car--all you have to do is go back to the service department, give them the VIN and ask.

Devildog2067

There are incentives paid on sales volume, and sometimes there's dealer cash on cars as well.

I used to be a sales manager at a Hyundai/Kia/Mitsubishi store. Hyundai would pay $X per car in dealer cash for every Hyundai sold in a month, but it went up to $Y if you hit some predetermined level (at my store, X was 200, Y was 500 and I started getting my 500 at 21 cars). So the 21st Hyundai was worth $6K+ in dealer cash. If I was sitting on 21 Hyundais at 9pm on the last day of the month, there was a temptation to punch an extra car and collect the cash.

Or, say you had a car sitting around forever, and the model year for that car was over and the rebates/incentives were ending. You know that Mitsubishi isn't going to be offering a $3000 rebate on the 03 Eclipse in the middle of the 04 model year (b/c they assume you've sold them all already) so if it's end of February of 2004 and you're looking at the last 03 Eclipse sitting in the showroom, there's a temptation to punch that car just in case the the incentives will end at the end of the month.

I never did because it was more trouble than it was worth, but there are lots of reasons why people think about doing it.